Bush's Best Speech Ever?

LOL!Simon Sheppard??

You actually expect to be taken seriously?

NP,I’m actually reaching the point of starting to feel sorry for you.

You just try so damn hard to be taken seriously when the whole premise of your position is intellectually and morally reprehensible.You trot out all these links and quote all these sources that are just completely lacklustre and ignorant.
Using a bunch of raging loons to back up your positions just does not work.Can’t you see that?
You’re just an insecure young man.I hope that changes,because you seem fairly bright.

Do you in all honestly think that some juvenile attack, using some crackpot as your source,directed at my masculinity,is going to rile me up?

Pity is what I feel for you.

Ps:If you’re going to edit your posts in order to include your ‘scathing’ attacks,at least have the courtesy to say you have edited them.

Simon Sheppard? huh? Just googled him. I didn’t need to know who Simon Sheppard is - did I? More precious moments of my life forever lost to oblivion. Someone shoot me.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

Here we go again. Hitler didn’t even want war with Britain, nevermind the US. He saw both nations as racial allies to the future reich.[/quote]

Hitler wasn’t big on allies.

When the German Army marched into the Ukraine, a National Socialist Ukrainian party had taken over. They wanted to ally with Hitler and march on the Soviet Union with his army.

Hitler had them all executed.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
But he was the one negotiating with Hamas, wasn’t he?

Yeah, but Bush’s spoke of a “senator”.

Not in the quote above - do you mean another part of the speech?
[/quote]

The sentence preceding the one quoted by HH was:

"As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared, ‘Lord, if only I could have talked to Hitler, all of this might have been avoided,’ "

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:

Here we go again. Hitler didn’t even want war with Britain, nevermind the US. He saw both nations as racial allies to the future reich.

Hitler wasn’t big on allies.

When the German Army marched into the Ukraine, a National Socialist Ukrainian party had taken over. They wanted to ally with Hitler and march on the Soviet Union with his army.

Hitler had them all executed.[/quote]

There were many partisan groups in the various occupied territories. Some fared better than others at the hands of the Nazi’s. Do you have a source for this particular anecdote?

I don’t think it’s true that “Hitler wasn’t big on allies”. He would have allied with Britain and probably the U.S. Churchill wouldn’t have it, though. The Nazi’s could have ruined the British at Dunkirk but Hitler chose to spare them over the objection of his generals.

[quote]lixy wrote:
The sentence preceding the one quoted by HH was:

"As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared, ‘Lord, if only I could have talked to Hitler, all of this might have been avoided,’ "[/quote]

Many things could, indeed, have been avoided, had the events leading up to WWII unfolded differently. The statement is not inaccurate and it fails to exemplify the folly of “appeasement”, which was HH’s reason for quoting it.

@lixy, O, I’m sorry. I thought you meant the word “senator” as referring somehow to Obama??

“Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along.”

A blatant straw man argument is one of Bush’s best speeches?

Well, he has set the bar very, very low. You may be right.

[quote]Michael570 wrote:
“Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along.”

A blatant straw man argument is one of Bush’s best speeches?

Well, he has set the bar very, very low. You may be right.[/quote]

How is that a straw man?

Jimmy Carter is doing that exact thing. There are politicians and posters on this board that seem to think the Palestinian “crisis” would solve itself if we’d just sit down and talk.

Bush is absolutely right on this point. Hamas’s stated purpose is to annihilate Israel, and they haven’t seemed too willing to budge on that point. That’s a non-starter for negotiation purposes. There is zero point in trying to talk to these radicals until they give us legitimate reason to believe that they’re willing to live and let live.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

I don’t think it’s true that “Hitler wasn’t big on allies”. He would have allied with Britain and probably the U.S. Churchill wouldn’t have it, though. [/quote]

Why did Hitler kick Hess out of the party after his infamous flight?

If he wanted peace with Britian, that would have been the time to make it.

Ooo. General Patreus seems to be supporting the diplomacy route.

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
There are politicians and posters on this board that seem to think the Palestinian “crisis” would solve itself if we’d just sit down and talk. [/quote]

Well, I am not one of them.

I don’t believe one bit that there is a solution. Both sides have too many grievances to think there can ever be some sort of peace. The closest thing to a peaceful settlement would be the one-state solution, but you’d still have Jews killing the Arabs and Arabs killing the Jews.

The “crisis” as you describe it, cannot be solved until the refugees are allowed to return and Jerusalem is partitioned. And there are ZERO chances of that happening.

That’s certainly not a phrase one gets to hear often.

Hamas is largely the fruit of the aggressive Israeli military and total failure of the previous negotiations. In fact, there is evidence that Tel-Aviv was willingly allowing the movement to grow in order to sabotage the PLO. Hamas was Saudi money for the most part. The Al-Sauds didn’t like the idea of secularism knocking at their door.

Also, as soon as they came to power, Hamas proposed a 10-years old truce with Israel.

You say “us” as if you were an Israeli citizen who has to put up with the rockets (however rudimental) from the other side. Here’s news for you:

Poll: Most Israelis Want Truce With Hamas

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/27/world/main3882055.shtml

Negotiations don’t cost anything. Both sides have all the time in the world, and if talking means some quiet and time, I don’t understand how anyone can oppose it. Well, unless they’re out of reach of those Flintstonian rockets (hint Tel-Aviv, USA hint).

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
Let’s get a move on:

What, exactly, is your problem with the links?

NP, okay, I followed those links too. What is it that we are supposed to learn from them?

You say above, that Hitler “saw both nations as racial allies to the future reich.” I’ll ask you again: don’t you see this - in and of itself - as problematic? WTF do you mean by “racial allies”? Etc.[/quote]

I don’t see anything problematic. The U.S. and Britain were countries that were founded and populated by racially Germanic peoples at the time of WWII. Hitler was not out to destroy his own kind. Several statements to this effect are attributed to him.

What you were supposed to learn from the links that I posted was:

“…Hitler repeatedly tried to negotiate with Poland and was turned down?”

Hence, the reason I posted them after making that particular statement. Make sense?

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
LOL!Simon Sheppard??

You actually expect to be taken seriously?

NP,I’m actually reaching the point of starting to feel sorry for you.

You just try so damn hard to be taken seriously when the whole premise of your position is intellectually and morally reprehensible.You trot out all these links and quote all these sources that are just completely lacklustre and ignorant.

Using a bunch of raging loons to back up your positions just does not work.Can’t you see that?
You’re just an insecure young man.I hope that changes,because you seem fairly bright.

Do you in all honestly think that some juvenile attack, using some crackpot as your source,directed at my masculinity,is going to rile me up?

Pity is what I feel for you.

Ps:If you’re going to edit your posts in order to include your ‘scathing’ attacks,at least have the courtesy to say you have edited them.

[/quote]

Yes, Simon Sheppard. Why wouldn’t I expect to be taken seriously? The man is utterly brilliant.

http://www.heretical.com/sheppard/wfpim.html

You’re bullshitting again. I’m not attacking anybody, I’m just quietly presenting my views, same as usual.

Say, what happened to the intelligent people on this forum?

http://www.heretical.com/sheppard/realman.html
http://www.heretical.com/sheppard/realman2.html

as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along.

^^^^^^^^^^^
STRAW MAN

Nobody is claiming that they have “some ingenious argument” that will convince TERRORISTS that they’ve been wrong all along. That’s typical bumper sticker politics.

Diplomacy or negotiation isn’t about changing thought or belief but it can be about influencing actions.

Your argument had actual weight but Bush’s was: “Straw man…blah blah…Nazi scum! The end.”

(I know, that’s a straw man)

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Say, what happened to the intelligent people on this forum? [/quote]

They were driven away by the likes of you?

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
But he was the one negotiating with Hamas, wasn’t he?

Yeah, but Bush’s spoke of a “senator”.

[/quote]

Bush spoke of someone that wanted to “talk to” Hitler. Carter “talked to” Hamas just weeks ago.

[quote]
Why didn’t McCain blow his top? Obama and McCain have made similar statements about discussions with Hamas.

Dunno. Could it be because Bush endorsed McCain? [/quote]

Obama and McCain have made similar statements regarding Hamas. Bush’s comments would apply to both if applied to either.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
How many people are aware that Hitler repeatedly tried to negotiate with Poland and was turned down?

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=136407

http://www.biodiversityforum.com/showthread.php5?t=33280&highlight=swedes

Zap Branigan wrote:
A gun pointed at your head is not a problem until the trigger is pulled.

Here we go again. Hitler didn’t even want war with Britain, nevermind the US. He saw both nations as racial allies to the future reich.

I can’t believe I actually clicked on those links.

You are a deeply flawed individual,NP.Your only redeeming feature is the fact that you’re very young and may perhaps one day see your way clear to leaving all this blatant lunacy behind you.

Your post made me click on them. A lot of stupid people in this world.

Stay on topic. …[/quote]

You are the fool that posted links to discussions between other fools. If you didn’t want them read and discussed, why did you post them?

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

Say, what happened to the intelligent people on this forum?

http://www.heretical.com/sheppard/realman.html
http://www.heretical.com/sheppard/realman2.html

[/quote]

We’re just reading along. ;D

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Obama and McCain have made similar statements regarding Hamas. Bush’s comments would apply to both if applied to either. [/quote]

I thought McCain made like a hippie’s footwear on that one too.

Too many good docs are going out of business. Too many OBGYNs are unable to pracitice their love with women across the country.

“…as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along.”

yes, because going and bombing the %#*&$ out of them works SSSOOOOOO much better!

Just when you think this guy can’t out do himself.