T Nation

Bush Was Behind 9-11

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Juan Blanco wrote:

They knew Bush was safe?

Bush is at a previously disclosed location. They’re 5 miles from the airport. And an unknown number of highjacked planes are flying into buildings at a time when they’re already on high alert for this exact thing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4734564/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13203-2005Feb10.html

Why would they allow Bush to stay at a publicly disclosed location and continue to read a book–and THEN continue to stay there and give a press conference while “unknown” terrorists are hijacking planes and flying them into buildings???

Other than the fact they knew for sure BUSH WAS SAFE!

[/quote]
Or it was a conspiracy against Bush!

You may have stumbled across something, JTF. The bilderbergs were certainly capable of putting together an operation of that magnitude.
http://www.bilderberg.org/
http://www.prisonplanet.com/bilderberg_batters_bush.html

I’m not a fucking conspiracy nut, it’s provable. A handful, a very small elite, run and own these corporations, which include the mainstream media. I have this feeling that whoever is elected president, like Clinton was, no matter what you promise on the campaign trail ? blah, blah, blah ? when you win, you go into this smoke-filled room with the twelve industrialist capitalist scum-fucks who got you in there.

And you’re in this smoky room, and this little film screen comes down ? and a big guy with a cigar goes, “Roll the film.” And it’s a shot of the Kennedy assassination from an angle you’ve never seen before ? that looks suspiciously like it’s from the grassy knoll. And then the screen goes up and the lights come up, and they go to the new president, “Any questions?” “Er, just what my agenda is.” “First we bomb Baghdad.” “You got it?”
-Bill Hicks

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article14615.htm

I take a back seat to no one in despising the Asshole in Chief, but the idea that the Bush Administration engineered 9-11 is beyond idiotic.

Besides assuming a moral vacuity that even I won’t attribute to Bush-Cheney, it implies a level of competence that they simply don’t have. They’ve fucked up everything they’ve touched from letting bin Laden escape Tora Bora (another conspiracy?) to failing to plan for loccupation in Iraq.

I wouldn’t trust these guys to put on an elementary school bake sale. there’s no way they could put together an operation like 9-11.

They were simply negligent ??perhaps even willing to take a hit that would allow them to pursue their Project For A New American Century Agenda. But I don’t think they had a clue what scale al Qaeda was operating on and they just fucked up. As usual.

[quote]Burnham wrote:
I take a back seat to no one in despising the Asshole in Chief, but the idea that the Bush Administration engineered 9-11 is beyond idiotic.

Besides assuming a moral vacuity that even I won’t attribute to Bush-Cheney, it implies a level of competence that they simply don’t have. They’ve fucked up everything they’ve touched from letting bin Laden escape Tora Bora (another conspiracy?) to failing to plan for loccupation in Iraq.

I wouldn’t trust these guys to put on an elementary school bake sale. there’s no way they could put together an operation like 9-11.

They were simply negligent ??perhaps even willing to take a hit that would allow them to pursue their Project For A New American Century Agenda. But I don’t think they had a clue what scale al Qaeda was operating on and they just fucked up. As usual.[/quote]

So right. I would guess it would take more than 3 or 4 people and does anyone think that they could just go to someone and say, “we are going to put together a plan to fly some arabs into the WTC and the Pentagon, what do you think, are you in?” Come on, that’s retarded.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Now, as usual for JTF, this is QUALITY and really makes you think.

You got a point here, buddy.

Here’s something to mull over that will hopefully meet your standards;

An October 2006 New York Times and CBS news poll showed that 28 percent believe members of the Bush Administration are mostly lying about “what they knew prior to September 11th, 2001, about possible terrorist attacks against the United States.”

So, between 1/4 and 1/3 of your fellow citizens believes Bush is lying about the freaking thing, and yet there doesn’t seem to be much unrest.

If this was the case anywhere else in the world, the people surely would have united to uncover the truth. Americans just seem to have been accustomed to deceit from their government and don’t see any way to change things. So much for your so-called democracy.
[/quote]

Lixy read your own quote. Then read your comments.According to the quote 1/4 of the morons in the poll said they think the administration are lying about what they knew prior to 9/11 “about possible terrorist attacks against the US”.

Does that specify the flying of jetliners into the WTC? No.
Does that specify that they thought the government was “in on it” somehow? No.
Your comments make that leaping connection but not the poll. The poll shows what would be normally expected in y opinion - people want to think the government knows more than it does and is more capable than it is. They want to believe that so they answer vague poll questions that way.

I dont believe 28% of Americans believe the governement knew about or was in on 9/11…but if they really did believe that, well then I am just embarassed by them. They are just as embarassing as the islamic morons I saw on tv swearing it was the Mossad and the CIA.

Love your angry anti US comments though about how we Americans are so lackadasical etc etc. Love the anti democracy comments too.
Sigh.

You seem to have a hard on for most every thing US.

So fuck you.

[quote]david dunne wrote:
Lixy read your own quote. Then read your comments.According to the quote 1/4 of the morons in the poll said they think the administration are lying about what they knew prior to 9/11 “about possible terrorist attacks against the US”.[/quote]

Let’s read my comment, shall we?

“So, between 1/4 and 1/3 of your fellow citizens believes Bush is lying about the freaking thing, and yet there doesn’t seem to be much unrest.”

[quote]Does that specify the flying of jetliners into the WTC? No.
Does that specify that they thought the government was “in on it” somehow? No.[/quote]

Did I say anything about the flying of jetliners? No.
Did I specify that the government was "in on it somehow? No.

All I said is that those people believe that Bush is lying, as in withholding the truth. How you’d conclude that I believe Bush is behind 9/11 is beyond me. I made it clear in this thread that the 9/11 attacks were a result of angry Islamist fundamentalists, and went to show why such attack can only be the act of people who believed to be working for a divine cause. No amount of money can ever get people to act that way. Thus, Bush cannot have planned the attacks.

[quote]You seem to have a hard on for most every thing US.

So fuck you.[/quote]

What you perceive as as “hard on for most every thing US” is actually a disgust for the double standards, gratuitous aggression and arrogant attitudes. The fact that the US seems to have been the champion of these for the past…say half a century, makes it my focus point.

If what I’m saying makes you uncomfortable or challenges your view of the world, you can either ignore it or bring arguments to the table that may refute it. But try to do so in a civil manner please.

Until then fuck you too!

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Bush was in a PREVIOUSLY DISCLOSED, public location. Aware that America was under attack and an UNKNOWN number of highjacked planes were in the air, Secret Service allowed Bush to remain in the classroom, completely exposed to an attack for 20 minutes.

HOW DID THEY KNOW BUSH WAS SAFE?

Bush Presses Education Agenda in Sunshine State
ABC News
Sept 10, 2001
Bush is set to take part in a reading program demonstration and address parents and teachers at Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota on Tuesday.

“The dog did nothing in the night time. That was the curious incident,” remarked Sherlock Holmes
[/quote]

The plans were already in place–I don’t see how they could have taken advantage of knowing where Bush would have been unless they knew it well in advance to plan it. Logistics dictates strategy.

[quote]lixy wrote:
david dunne wrote:
Lixy read your own quote. Then read your comments.According to the quote 1/4 of the morons in the poll said they think the administration are lying about what they knew prior to 9/11 “about possible terrorist attacks against the US”.

Let’s read my comment, shall we?

“So, between 1/4 and 1/3 of your fellow citizens believes Bush is lying about the freaking thing, and yet there doesn’t seem to be much unrest.”

Does that specify the flying of jetliners into the WTC? No.
Does that specify that they thought the government was “in on it” somehow? No.

Did I say anything about the flying of jetliners? No.
Did I specify that the government was "in on it somehow? No.

All I said is that those people believe that Bush is lying, as in withholding the truth. How you’d conclude that I believe Bush is behind 9/11 is beyond me. I made it clear in this thread that the 9/11 attacks were a result of angry Islamist fundamentalists, and went to show why such attack can only be the act of people who believed to be working for a divine cause. No amount of money can ever get people to act that way. Thus, Bush cannot have planned the attacks.

You seem to have a hard on for most every thing US.

So fuck you.

What you perceive as as “hard on for most every thing US” is actually a disgust for the double standards, gratuitous aggression and arrogant attitudes. The fact that the US seems to have been the champion of these for the past…say half a century, makes it my focus point.

If what I’m saying makes you uncomfortable or challenges your view of the world, you can either ignore it or bring arguments to the table that may refute it. But try to do so in a civil manner please.

Until then fuck you too![/quote]

My friend nothing you have ever said has challenged my view nor made me uncomfortable.

Let me clarify-when I said reexamine your own quote I meant what was already in quotations-the poll quote- not your words. The words in the poll.
My point was the poll was worded to ask people if they think maybe the government knew more about “possible terrorist attacks against the US”.

I am pointing out that the vague wording of such a poll does NOT indicate that 28% of the people polled believe the government was lying about 9/11. That seemed to be what your view was but I do not believe that is what the answer to the poll question shows.

I was trying to point out why there wasn’t more “unrest”. You - wrongly- deemed it was because US citizens are used to being deceived by the government and dont much care. I was making the point that there was no unrest because there was none needed. As I said, people want to believe the government has more knowledge and is more capable than it has shown to be.

In any case - you ARE anti US in every post of yours I have come across. That has obviously shaded your view of the world as well.

As for the fuck you-it’s Testosterone Nation my friend…so grow a set ok? If you continually have bullshit derogatory things to say about my country than you can expect an occasional fuck you from me. If that bothers you too much then just mark me down as another stupid American who doesn’t understand how the world REALLY is.

[quote]david dunne wrote:
I am pointing out that the vague wording of such a poll does NOT indicate that 28% of the people polled believe the government was lying about 9/11. That seemed to be what your view was but I do not believe that is what the answer to the poll question shows.[/quote]

You have a good point. Analyzing data from surveys can be a tricky business if you’re not carefully. So, let’s examine it more thoroughly. Here’s the exact wording of the poll.

Polling Data

When it comes to what they knew prior to September 11th, 2001, about possible terrorist attacks against the United States, do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?

              Oct. 2006        May 2002

Telling the truth 16% 21%

Hiding something 53% 65%

Mostly lying 28% 8%

Not sure 3% 6%

Now, it’s all a matter of interpretation.
What I said was that he was lying about “the freaking thing”. And you chose to interpret it as 9/11 instead of “possible terrorist attacks against the United States”. Granted, I should have been more specific. But it’s clear that not many believe the government was entirely forthcoming.

[quote]You - wrongly- deemed it was because US citizens are used to being deceived by the government and dont much care
[…]
As I said, people want to believe the government has more knowledge and is more capable than it has shown to be.[/quote]

Surely, in most contexts, having knowledge and withholding it is a form of deceit.

I think you may wanna clarify what you mean by the “more knowledge and more capable” part.

I AM also anti-cannibalism, anti-racism, anti-violence, anti-big-SUVs, anti-lazyness, anti-killing-puppies…
It just never popped up in the discussion.

There are not many things the US has done on the world scene recently that would make me throw flowers at it. Here’s the thing though. I’d thank you for removing Saddam if it wasn’t for the thousands of human lives it cost.

Fair enough. At least, you’re an American who’s willing to dialog and I respect that.

[quote]Burnham wrote:
I take a back seat to no one in despising the Asshole in Chief, but the idea that the Bush Administration engineered 9-11 is beyond idiotic.

Besides assuming a moral vacuity that even I won’t attribute to Bush-Cheney, it implies a level of competence that they simply don’t have. They’ve fucked up everything they’ve touched from letting bin Laden escape Tora Bora (another conspiracy?) to failing to plan for loccupation in Iraq.

I wouldn’t trust these guys to put on an elementary school bake sale. there’s no way they could put together an operation like 9-11.

They were simply negligent perhaps even willing to take a hit that would allow them to pursue their Project For A New American Century Agenda. But I don’t think they had a clue what scale al Qaeda was operating on and they just fucked up. As usual.[/quote]

The problem is, your basing your assumption of their “incompetence” by what they SAID they would do vs. how things actually turned out–and that 9/11 itself was just another example of collective incompetence.

Your willing to believe that our military is so incompetent that they couldn’t possibly pull off 9/11 – yet 19 BUNGLING Arabs, who had been “secretly” training in the US for several years, and had been flagged numerous times during this period by flight instructors reporting them to federal authorities about their suspicious behavior and terrible skills and who were being directed by a guy living in a cave in the middle of a barren wasteland on the other side of the world, could?!

Which brings up another point. “Debunkers” love to refer to “Occam’s razor” in support of the 19 Arab hijacker theory. The problem is, “Occam’s razor” actually fits the “conspiracy” version better…

“The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating, or “shaving off”, those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory.”

Given that criteria, the SIMPLEST explanation would be that a majority of the Bush administration co-authored and signed their names to a foreign policy document that was so grandiose, that they wrote the only way they could sell it to our allies and the US public would be if we were attacked on American soil in a “catastrophic and catalyzing event–like a new Pearl Harbor.” AND THEN THEY GOT IT.

If you know anything about PNAC, how could ANYONE possibly say they’re incompetent? Their “perceived” incompetence has lead to the fulfillment of their PREVIOUSLY STATED GOALS.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3249.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1665.htm

In that context, an event that was a horrific tragedy for the average American, turned out to be EXACTLY what the neo-cons said they needed to jump start their plan.

Even if the hijacker story is entirely true, you would have to conclude and envision, that at the very least, the neo-con architects of the PNAC plan were doing nothing short of jumping for JOY and uncorking the champagne.

We’re to conclude that the neo-cons drew up a detailed foreign policy/military rebuilding plan that relied almost entirely on a RANDOM EVENT, completely out of their control, in order to be initiated? And not just ANY random event – specifically, quote, a “catastrophic and catalyzing event”.

I’d be similar to me creating a detailed, 40 year retirement plan that initiated with me winning the lottery – the fact I WORK FOR THE LOTTERY calibrating the machines and I happen to win the jackpot within one year of creating my plan, is of course, purely coincidental.

What’s amazing is, somehow our “incompetent” government (caught entirely by surprise) had the ENTIRE 9/11 plot figured out in only TWO DAYS…?!

FBI Launches Massive Manhunt - Hijackers Trained As Pilots in U.S.
Washington Post
September 13, 2001

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The plans were already in place–I don’t see how they could have taken advantage of knowing where Bush would have been unless they knew it well in advance to plan it. Logistics dictates strategy.[/quote]

I agree with what you are saying, but that sort of IMPLIES that they knew he was safe. BTW, officially it was Sept 6 that his whereabouts were made “semi-public”.

As of that moment, planes are flying into buildings–they have to assume that Bush is in danger, not that he is SAFE.

Also from this article…
Father defends Bush’s flight from danger
9/14/2001
He was facing a “specific and credible” threat, his spokesman insisted. Officials said a message sent to the White House warned: “Air Force One is next.”

The message included code words indicating that the caller knew of White House security procedures for protecting the president during a crisis.

[quote]david dunne wrote:

As for the fuck you-it’s Testosterone Nation my friend…so grow a set ok? If you continually have bullshit derogatory things to say about my country than you can expect an occasional fuck you from me. If that bothers you too much then just mark me down as another stupid American who doesn’t understand how the world REALLY is.

[/quote]

The U.S. government is quite hypocritical when it comes to condemning terrorism, while carrying out terrorist activities itself, or supporting other countries who use terrorist tactics to achieve its goals.

The 1980s, for example, is littered with examples of the U.S. government forcing its will on populist movements in Central America that want to refrain from being the lap-dog of U.S. economic interests. There is also east Timor, Vietnam, and now the Middle east. The evidence is so overwhelming, yet people either ignore it outright because the American’s are doing it, so it has to be right. Or they’re just ignorant and lazy and won’t take the time to do a little reading.

With all that said, I’ll save you the time by telling you I’m a commissioned officer in the U.S. Army, so spare me the usual “anti-American” labels.

Saying “fuck you” to people you disagree with has nothing to do with being a man or this website for that matter. It simply makes you look stupid.

Dustin

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
The problem is, your basing your assumption of their “incompetence” by what they SAID they would do vs. how things actually turned out–and that 9/11 itself was just another example of collective incompetence.

Your willing to believe that our military is so incompetent that they couldn’t possibly pull off 9/11 – yet 19 BUNGLING Arabs, who had been “secretly” training in the US for several years, and had been flagged numerous times during this period by flight instructors reporting them to federal authorities about their suspicious behavior and terrible skills and who were being directed by a guy living in a cave in the middle of a barren wasteland on the other side of the world, could?![/quote]

You knew all this and didn’t notify the authorities? Do the right thing, JTF. Stop hiding your secret knowledge before the next attack comes.


http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Sep/16-241966.html

Here’s the thing: You If you’re going to give Bush credit for orchestrating 9/11, you can’t call him an idiot.

If you hate Bush, that’s fine. But choose one or the other:

  1. He’s a mindblowingly brilliant man with terrible intentions who’s successfully tricked an entire country into electing him twice, orchestrated the single most gruesome attack ever to strike US soil and gotten away with it, tricked the ENTIRE CIVILIZED WORLD into believing Iraq was armed with WMDs, all while maintaining a facade of good intentions and failed actions

OR

  1. He’s a bumbling incompetent idiot who happened to stumble into the most powerful job in the world during one of the most trying times in American history.

You can choose to believe either, but you can’t have both. They’re mutually exclusive.

[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:
Here’s the thing: You If you’re going to give Bush credit for orchestrating 9/11, you can’t call him an idiot.

If you hate Bush, that’s fine. But choose one or the other:

  1. He’s a mindblowingly brilliant man with terrible intentions who’s successfully tricked an entire country into electing him twice, orchestrated the single most gruesome attack ever to strike US soil and gotten away with it, tricked the ENTIRE CIVILIZED WORLD into believing Iraq was armed with WMDs, all while maintaining a facade of good intentions and failed actions

OR

  1. He’s a bumbling incompetent idiot who happened to stumble into the most powerful job in the world during one of the most trying times in American history.

You can choose to believe either, but you can’t have both. They’re mutually exclusive.[/quote]

I could almost guarantee Bush himself had nothing to do with 9/11. The PNAC plan was put together long before Bush came to office and neither was he part of Cheney’s Energy Task Force.

I think Bush not really knowing what was going on worked because he was able to project more sincerity and I think he was genuinely surprised.

Its amazing to go back and read what was written about Bush BEFORE he became President though – UNCANNY.

Bush’s Death Factory
the Boston Globe
October 25, 2000
Asked if Texas should call a moratorium as Illinois has done, Bush said no. Asked why, he said, “The reason why is I’m confident that every person that has been put to death under our state has been guilty of the crime charged.”

Such confidence in the face of the evidence borders on the deranged. Three decades ago, a president refused to change course, and it cost thousands of American lives. In two weeks, the nation may elect a president with a similar hubris. If Bush will not change course on the death penalty, there is no telling what he will not change course on if elected president.
http://www.commondreams.org/views/102500-101.htm

[quote]Juan Blanco wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
The problem is, your basing your assumption of their “incompetence” by what they SAID they would do vs. how things actually turned out–and that 9/11 itself was just another example of collective incompetence.

Your willing to believe that our military is so incompetent that they couldn’t possibly pull off 9/11 – yet 19 BUNGLING Arabs, who had been “secretly” training in the US for several years, and had been flagged numerous times during this period by flight instructors reporting them to federal authorities about their suspicious behavior and terrible skills and who were being directed by a guy living in a cave in the middle of a barren wasteland on the other side of the world, could?!

You knew all this and didn’t notify the authorities? Do the right thing, JTF. Stop hiding your secret knowledge before the next attack comes.


http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Sep/16-241966.html
[/quote]

Alex Jones did it on live TV – July 25, 2001
He warned our government was looking to pass off a fake terror attack and named Bin Laden and the World Trade Center specifically.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1222445722544874066

[quote]Juan Blanco wrote:
You knew all this and didn’t notify the authorities? Do the right thing, JTF. Stop hiding your secret knowledge before the next attack comes.
[/quote]

Or maybe you’d like to watch 9/11 on FOX, six months BEFORE it actually happened…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQyYuWXp3E8

After watching that, maybe you’d like to know a little about a neo-con and PNAC member, Rabbi Dov S. Zakheim - Bush’s Under Secretary of Defense (Comptroller) and Chief Financial Officer during 9/11…

Dr. Zakheim has previously served in a number of key positions in government and private business. Most recently, he was corporate vice president of System Planning Corp

What does “System Planning Corp” do or make you might be wondering…?

Flight Termination System
System Planning Corporation’s is proud to offer the Flight Termination System (FTS), a fully redundant turnkey range safety and test system for remote control and flight termination of airborne test vehicles.
http://www.sysplan.com/Radar/FTS

BBC reporting live on Sept 11 that the WTC 7 (Salomon Brothers Building) has collapsed…
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/260207building7.htm

…just one problem, its STILL STANDING in the background behind the reporter – it won’t fall for another 20 MINUTES…

Add CNN to the list of news outlets reporting Building 7’s demise BEFORE it actually fell.

Till that very day, not a single steel framed building had ever collapsed due to fire.

I wonder if this was where Flt 93 was headed?

justthefacts,

  1. What happened at Roswell?

  2. Was there a large gash in Titanic’s side or was it the rivets?

  3. Was Napoleon poisoned?

  4. Is Jimmy Hoffa buried in the Jets’ stadium concrete?

  5. Is the “light” people see during death a hypoxic reaction or is there something beyond?

  6. Was Jesus or James the more important of the two at the time?

  7. What killed the dinosaurs?

  8. Is vitamin E an effective anti-oxidant?

  9. Where is amelia earhart?

  10. Where is Alexander the great’s coffin?

Thanks in advance. These questions have been bugging me for some time.

JeffR