Bush sure is doing a good job

I was waiting for the “I bet you don’t even work out” comment. sighs Yes, fitone, it has been proven that there is a direct correlation between working out and the ability to hold a polemic viewpoint…

Speaking from a NZ perspective, it would be generally fair to say that people are more concerned with the US and Bush’s attitude then they are at the actual point being made. But then that’s hardly surprising with a: “let’s work together and do it my way” attitude.

Irrespective of whether you agree of disagree with the continued existence of Mr Hussein, the fact that the US and Britain haven’t been honest about either [a] their motivations or [b]the train of evidence, doesn’t engender huge amounts of credibility in their stance.

For example: Powell’s presentation to the UN included blatant misinformation.

The link between Al Quaeda and Iraq has been made up out of whole cloth. Both Saddam and Osama loathe each other with a passion [secular aetheist vs religious fundamentalist] but have essentially been marginalised into the same camp by rhetoric…excellent foreign policy that, make your mutually antagonistic enemies antagonistic only at you…

…and for those who argue that Osama said “go Iraq”, he didn’t. He told the people [muslims] of Iraq to rise up and defend, not the political entity.

…that being said, Say, your articles are pretty far-fetched

TROLL ALERT! EVACUATE THREAD AT ONCE.

Who helped put Saddam into Power?

Who armed the Afgans to fight the Russians?

Iraq lost most, if not all their military force during the gulf war. After 10 years of sanctions they have very little. The US has a “good and strong” intelligence agency and yet can not show any damming evidence that Iraq acutally have any WoMD. Its all based on speculation. Please correct me if im wrong but i havnt seen any proof of Iraq having/developing WoMD.

Iraq has done (from what i have seen) everything possible to prove they are/have disarmed. Inspectors have found nothing. How can you proove you have nothing, when, when you try you get called a lier? The US should prove IRAQ have WoMD regarless of any Resolutions. If anything to help gain support.

North Korea have been developing Nuclear weapons, and have a massive military force. They have also threatend the US. Why dont the US have 300,000 troops over their?

Does the US puplic get to see the massive Anti-War protest rallies that have been going on around the world? Or is the US media to self involved?

If/When the US attacks IRAQ, what happends if other countires jump on the waggon i.e. start attacking each other. Do we want another World War? Does anyone relise how much their dayly lives would change as a result? Go ask some of those who are still alive who experienced World War 2.

I know their is alot of patriotism surrounding the issue. But people should step aside and look at the bigger picture. If the US really knows something then they should share it with the world.

Im from New Zealand and am very gratefull for what the US did for all of us in the Pacific during World War 2. However, i think this time they are going to far to soon.

Ok, that Hitler stuff is off the wall (all the pieces fit though), but I don’t think there can be any doubt that Bush is looking for any excuse to go after Iraq, probably for oil. Either that or to distract the public from all the domestic problems the country has, like health, education, 50000000 people living below the povery line, etc.

Good points, pat. Similar to ones I’d have made if I weren’t so damn tired of addressing the same naive, ill-informed, and baseless arguments in other threads. (…must get shot of Powerdrive…)

Say, Bush is Republican. That means he understands that it is NOT the Federal Government’s job to make sure everyone has health insurance, an education, or a decent standard of living. He understands that it IS the Federal Government’s job to protect the U.S. from all enemies.

“Hasn’t the world been patient enough” draws a response of good point??
Bush is on a war mission along with his sidekick Tony Blair. The only reason it has not started yet is because of the time needed for troop build up and delays by other UN nations with veto power. Members of the FBI and state departement who have spent loads of time studying have found no link to Al Quada. Yet we are supposed to be convinced by Powell’s presentation featuring blurry satellite photos of tents and trucks that we should assume are storing chemical weapons? This is not about weapons, it is about Bush’s own personal agenda. He apparently is willing to pursue it regardless of other opions or loss of life.

Did you guys catch 60 min today… Some intreasting stuff a former general of Iraq had to say about Saddam.

I didn’t catch all of it but I wish I did. Did anyone see it?

So many points to address, so little time to address them. First of all, I am not for war. I don’t want it. Much rather have peace and watch the gays bitch about how oprressed they are or something trivial like that. But we are in an environment of war right now. That is reality. Justinx, I do not know where you got your information but it is very inaccurate. The Iraq thing actually should have been dealt with militarily in 1998 when Saddam kicked out the inspectors and went on a large military spending spree. But it wasn’t becuase Clinton was more concerned with Lewinski’s pussy to pay attention to something mild like that. The Iraqi’s had many weapons the UN knew about before the inspectors were kicked out, now suddenly the Iraqi’s deny that they ever existed. It is kind of odd. Iraq is also very far from poor. The money simply does not circulate. It stays at the top. Saddam is saving up for his 894th palace. That is why the iraqi people are poor, it’s not all because of sanctions. Before the sanctions the iraqi people were still poor.
I think most people’s problem with the whole Iraq problem is one of timing. Why are we all the sudden paying attention to them when we have ignored them for so long. It’s really not a matter of whether or not they are a problem, it’s just why are we interested in them now.
As far as the al-quada relation. I do not know if they have a relationship with them or not. But there is at the very least anecdotal eveidence that Iraq had some involvement with the 9/11 attacks. Iraqi official met with Mohammad Atta and some of his cronies at least twice. Once in Prague and once in Madrid one month prior to the attacks. Why would they meet with them, if not to at least to further encourage the attacks. This was a matter of common public knowledge shortly after the attacks, the news media metioned it at least three time a broadcast towards the end of 2001. I do not know why it is never mentioned now. But it has stuck in my mind ever since I first saw the broad cast.
N. Korea, I was puzzled for quite sometime with regards to the U.S.'s handling of that situation, until recently. After N. Korea claimed the would win a nuclear confrontation with the U.S., I quit taking anything they say seriously. What their two bombs against our 20,000? Whatever. I think we are handling them perfecly. We are ignoring them and that is what we should do. They are drum beating but it seems to have little to no meaning. Besides we’ll get to them when the time comes.
In conclusion, I think history will show the Saddam is a really bad dude. Far worse than we know now. After all Saddam was an assasin. That was his first ever job for pay. So what, we should trust him. He’s a good guy? Nah, he’s an asshole. I have more to say a=on how I think we should deal with the situation at hand and how I think we might be able to come out of this peacefully, but this post is already to long. So I will wait till later.

Pat :

First of all - I already know Saddam is a “really bad dude”

I agree. It is probably not primarily the result of the sanctions that have lead to the poor state of IRAQs people (though it definitely cant have helped them), but as a result of bad (selfish) leadership. I also agree Saddam is not a good man, and defiantly not the person you want leading the country.

You claim IRAQ went on a “large military spending spree”, where do you get this from? Has anybody seen any evidence of this? If this was the case don?t you think IRAQ would have started to use their newly purchased military power to build up a defensive on their borders. If IRAQ did have such a powerful military force don?t you think we would see more of it on TV.

I also believe that they probably have some chemical and biological weapons -somewhere. But the inspectors need to find these to show the world IRAQ have been lying. Though, the quantities would not even compare to what the US and other countries would have. Why is OK for some contries to have these weapons and not others? That is hypocritical. (Though I would prefer them in the hands of the British/US than IRAQ)

It is naive to say that North Korea does not pose a significant threat to the US, their threat is far more severe than that of IRAQ. Your refer the quantity of Nuclear Bombs. Have you any idea the amount of destruction a single nuclear weapon has?

You say that my information is incorrect. What information specifically?

Yes it’s probably all about oil:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html

let me make a little analogy here. and i hope that you guys will understand it. you work out at the gym and theres this guy there thats constantly bragging about his gear. when somebody brags about their gear to people they dont know then you consider them amateur, uneducated, retarded, etc, etc. so therefore, you pay no mind to them.

so i’m hoping that you guys understood my stupid analogy. but basically, that idiot in the gym represents north korea. kim jong il is a very strange man. he shows his desire for attention by flexing his nuts saying that hes got nukes. however, if you ask anybody that is considerably learned about him, they’ll tell you that hes not stupid enough to actually use em. remember, when he came out and said he had em, he also said that he wanted to talk with bush. he just wants attention but hes not stupid enough to use em.

and holy shit i probably wasted everybodys time by rambling but i’m dead-ass tired so i dont care.