T Nation

Bush Bad, Clinton Good


#1

Bush Bad, Clinton Good - Go Figure

The item below is a popular e-mail spreading like wildfire across the Internet, something for the undecided crowd to think about:

Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad

Clinton spends $77 billion on war in Serbia - good
Bush spends $87 billion in Iraq - bad

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian terrorists - good
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad

Clinton bombs Chinese Embassy - good
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad

Clinton commits felonies while in office - good
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in flight suit - bad

No mass graves found in Serbia - good
No WMD found in Iraq - bad

Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good
Economy on upswing under Bush - bad

Clinton refuses to take custody of bin Laden - good
World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad

Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good
Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good
Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad

Milosevic not yet convicted - good
Saddam turned over for trial - bad

Ahh, it's so confusing!


#2

Damn, I guess we'd better vote for Clinton then! :wink:


#3

LOL...Exellent!


#4

Nice post ZEB, I am sure this thread will die quickly though, None of our resident liberals will dare to tackle this one. Except maybe Lumpy, he is a brave one.

Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins


#5

Normally, I don't do these kinds of emails, but I've been interested in these quandries myself.

Great post.


#6

"Tackling" this one would be a tremendous waste of time!

Way to find a bunch of misconstrued and utterly meaningless garbage on the net ZEB.


#7

It's utter crap. Try to post something that is factually correct.

Who wrote that, Rush Limbaugh?


#8

RSU, LUMPY... Tell us then which of the above statements are not representitive of the liberal point of view? Is there anything in there that is not representitve of the liberal viewpoint, tell us what and why if it is so easy to do.

Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins


#9

RSU and Lumpy:

Easy to do a drive by posting! Now stop again and tell us where this is factually inaccurate. If you can't do this then stop by and admit that it is correct.

(I don't recall shorter posts by either of these two-LOL)


#10

"Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good
Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad "

If you honestly believe that Bush destroying those is bad then you are a moron. I am not a big Bush fan but the war in Afghanistan was fine by me, Iraq, not so much though.


#11

I have some comments...

Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad

  • Halliburton was already in Yugoslavia before the war. The contract simply allowed them to finish what they started. There's a lot of mixed messages about Halliburton, Iraq and the VP, and it's really up to you to take a clear view of all the controversial points out there.

Clinton spends $77 billion on war in Serbia - good
Bush spends $87 billion in Iraq - bad

  • Several other countries also contributed $ to Serbia. At least Clinton didn't tell other people they couldn't help him reconstruct the country because they didn't join him in the war. Much of the money Bush has taken for Iraq has not been spent yet.

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad

  • The US went into the Balkans as part of an international coalition intending to END an existing war. The US went into Iraq in a unilateral decision to START a war. Clinton received both international and local support for this war, whereas Iraq barely had any international support, and I don't even want to think about local support (and don't give me that shit about Iraqi polls saying that they are glad that the Americans have taken over - those polls were absolutely terrible and distorted the truth... go read about them somewhere online)

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian terrorists - good
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad

  • You have to admit that there was some pretty serious shit going on in the Balkans. Although some serious stuff also went on in Iraq in the past, it has become a lot more calm lately. If it is Bush's mission to eliminate evil genocidal dictators, then why hasn't he been succesful in Afghanistan and Iraq (and please don't tell me that everything is oh so good in these countries... do some readings on liberal Middle Eastern news services and then come back) and why is he forgetting about other countries in the oh so terrible Axis of Evil, Sudan, etc.?

Clinton bombs Chinese Embassy - good
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad

  • I believe this kind of propaganda is absolutely terrible, probably the worst of all. How is Clinton bombing the Chinese Embassy good? It was an honest mistake, and he apologized sincerely for it. Or you can believe the other side of the story, that it was being used to help Milosevic's forces with communications... up to you. Where are these terrorist camps Bush bombed? Are you talking about that chemical factory that turned out to be a hospital (or something like that) or are you talking about the small groups of ignorant fools camping in the desert dancing around a fire with their AK-47's? If you want to give any credit to a country, please give Israel some credit (although that's another story). Oh, and can you prove to me how the bombings of these terrorist camps have been effective in stopping global terrorism?

Clinton commits felonies while in office - good
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in flight suit - bad

  • Absolutely relative and up to personal opinion. Give Clinton a break, maybe his wife wasn't giving him enough:) Bush landing on the aircraft carrier... he was showing off and the whole thing was staged big time. Go do some readings on hippie media. Don't tell your people that major combat operations are over until you are 100% sure they are.

No mass graves found in Serbia - good
No WMD found in Iraq - bad

  • Mass graves were found. Concering no WMD found before or after the war? Before the war: well, if you pull the weapons inspectors out before they're done searching the country, they're obviously not gonna find anything. Quite frankly, people should be glad there weren't any WMD. It made the war unreasonable (considering that finding these terrible WMD was the main reason for going to war), and at the end I am simply satisfied that the whole thing was a big deal over nothing (although I'd rather not have had the war).

Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good
Economy on upswing under Bush - bad

  • Some really good (especially if you like economics) articles out there showing how that crash ended artificial inflation. 90's were the beginning of the information age, and it was promising too much. How is it exactly that Bush is creating these jobs? Is he using his magical wand? The economy is not entirely under his control. And the economy is only on an upswing because it messed up first. It's easy to recover from something terrible if you were the one who caused it. Tell me, if I burn a house down and then help rebuild it, am I a hero???

Clinton refuses to take custody of bin Laden - good
World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad

  • Absolut (could use some of that right now...) bullshit. I thought the US doesn't negotiate with self-appointed third parties (aka terrorist). Don't tell me you actually believe they had Osama in their living room??? Was he watching TV there just waiting for the US military to knock on the door and pick him up? Life isn't that easy... There was so much intelligence pointing towards a possible attack, it's not even funny how badly Bush screwed up by ignoring them. And now he's screaming bloody murder every time some kind of evidence shows up promising anything close to terrorism.

Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good
Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad

  • There's a difference between saying (and raising awareness), than actually going there and digging around for them. Even the Bush administration said that Iraq posed no danger and had no ties to terrorism (yes, you can find the videos on the internet), and then they went in at the wrong time whereas they should have still been focusing on Afghanistan. Oh, talking about Afghanistan, did anyone hear about the rockets being fired on election day? Probably not, considering that US media barely gave it any coverage.

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad

  • Read above...

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good
Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad

  • How could you dare say that it was good under Clinton. Please stop distorting stuff like this. Nobody ever congratulated Clinton for letting terrorist train while he didn't do anything. Read above for more info...

Milosevic not yet convicted - good
Saddam turned over for trial - bad

  • The legal system takes some time... it will happen, sooner or later. I dunno about the Saddam trial... because there hasn't been one yet. Also, many international lawyers are saying that the trial will be extremely biased.

Ok, there you go. At least one of the hippies on the boards decided to say something.

PS: I am not a hippie, not even close to being one. I am not very leftwing, but I do have my opinions.


#12

Go to CNN.com: no headlines about the blast killing 11 people in Iraq and how it made Rumsfeld look like an ass. Any other news services (http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=9155), it's a headline.

Yesterday, barely any American news service mentioned the rockets that were fired in Afghanistan. On Middle Eastern news it was a headline. (http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=9106)

Please, realize that American media doesn't cover everything out there. Sometimes you have to go to other media sources to inform yourself.


#13

The fact that Zeb and other people ACTUALLY believe this just goes to show how well the propaganda system works in this country.


#14

Here are "facts" I'd be willing to dispute. And I don't mean from a "liberal" perspective... I left those out. I mean from a rational-logical point of view.

so CHRISTIANs are the good guys and MUSLIMS are terrorists. Do you believe this? If so, I don't see the point of having an intellegent conversation with you, due to the lack of intellegence already demonstrated. I mean, granted, all sides in the Yugoslav conflict did some nasty stuff, but to suggest the Kosovo "event" showed the Serbs in ANYTHING but a horrible light (as in pursuing genocide) is irrational.

At least the first point compared two things worth comparing. I mean, how about Clinton bombed chinese embassy, and bush bombed Afgan wedding. Both bad things, both horrible consequences of war.
I mean, who is against Bush bombing terrorist camps? Not this liberal!

Again, apples to oranges. But if we want to play this game, how about:

Clinton lying to the American people to protect his personal life-- bad!
Bush lying to the American people to start a war-- very bad!

I think you'll agree thats a lame-ass argument, one that would work best on a playground...

Factual error! BZZZZZZZ!
Serbians committed genocide. Mass graves were found. Why do you think we finally went into Kosovo after sitting on our asses for way to long?
Seriously, I am offended as a human being that you buy this cover-up of genocide.

now now, we know everyone underestimated Bin Laden, and as such, I think it is fair to point out the times BUSH failed to kill him when he had a chance.

Again, can you be more simplistic? I don't think many people mind the fact that the regime was changed, it was the methodology employed therein that bugs most anti-war folks I've had contacts with.

Now now, Milosevic is currently at trial, and will 99.999% surely be convicted. Which is a great example of the new international court built to do such things;) But yeah, its been slow, and thats a shame. However, there are a number of genocidal maniacs runnings around the former yugoslavia who could use catching. Lets get them. Seriously.

Dude who takes his genocide seriously,
jon


#15

Excellent dissemination imjudek

And on the topic of one sided emails:

RESUME:
George W. Bush
The White House, USA

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:

LAW ENFORCEMENT: I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.

MILITARY: I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.

COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:
I ran for US Congress and lost.

I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money.

With the help of my father and our right-wing friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR:

I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union.

During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most
smog-ridden city in America.

I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.

I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.

With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.

I spent the US surplus and effectively bankrupted the US Treasury.

I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in US history.

I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.

I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the US stock market.

I am the first President in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period.

After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in US history.

I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction).

In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq, and then blamed the lies on our British friends.

I set the record for most campaign fundraising trips by a US President.

In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.

I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in US history.

I set the record for least number of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.

I presided over the biggest energy crisis in US history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.

I presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history.

I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in wartime.

I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.

I've broken more international treaties than any President in
US history.

I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

I am the first President in US history to order an unprovoked, preemptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of US citizens, and the world community.

I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.

I am the first President in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.

I withdrew the US from the World Court of Law.

I refused to allow inspector's access to US "prisoners of war"
detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.

I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US election).

I am the all-time US and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.

My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in US history. My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the US Supreme Court during my election decision. I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history.

I garnered the most sympathy for the US after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the US the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.

I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

I changed the US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein to justice.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES:

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.

All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.

Please consider my experience when voting in 2004.