T Nation

Bush AWOL?

sigh

US=GG said “This discussion in particular is about showing that Bush is a much more responsible leader, who deserves my vote more than Bily Boy did and many of his fellow democrats do.”

This thread is called “Bush AWOL?”, so tell me how does Bill Clinton figure into that? Can’t you stay on-topic? I know it is uncomfortable for you to discuss how the president select went missing for 17 months during the VietNam war. Lets try to stick to the subject.

I suggest you do a search on Google.com, type in the words Bush AWOL. You will get over 16,000 hits on that topic.

Please, US= GG, no more wiggling out of the topic here. Don’t duck out of this, the same way Bush ducked out of his service in the National Guard.

 Lumpy, *sigh*, that was me.

 Just reread my last post and see the exact quote you pasted on your thread. 

 While it's not the specific topic of this thread, it's the specific topic we're talking about at this point in th thread.

 While we think it's very generous of you to think of us for your pro-democratic propaganda, we think its best for both of us if you take your beliefs elsewhere.

Diesel,your ignorance is stunning!.It is exactly the point that because the USA are the most powerful country in the world then guess what? we do take an interest in the man who runs the world.
If our troops were good enough to be killed fighting alongside the Americans during the recent conflict,then my friend that gives me every right to comment.

double-sigh

BURP

I put taco into the Google search engine and came up with 782,000 links.

Is there a credible link to a story about Bush, not opinion, with the facts? All the news links were opinion, and I checked out the first 50 regular links mentioned, and then jumped to links 130 - 140. All were opinion, or extremely biased websites. (The difference is that opinion is from credible sources, and while the other web pages are opinion, I prefer to call them political agenda, or hate, websites.) My favorite was hartless-bitches.com

I think it is funny that we are supposed to forgive Robert Byrd for being in the KKK and yet are not supposed to forgive Bush for a story of which nobody seems to have all the facts about. And while alcoholism can be referred to as substance abuse, the term implies illegal drugs.

Regardless this has nothing to do with anything today, except a simple political attack.

  I'm sorry Zippy. YOu are right. I didnt realize you were brittish, who deserve my respect for supporting our troops in Iraq and doing a great job at it too.

   Every once in a while I get a little too overzealous and come straight out arrogant. Take my apologies.

   However, you should still realize the man who controls brittish troops is Blair (I think, im not brittish), not Bush. Im sure writing a letter informing mr Blair that you do not wish to see your fellow brittish soldiers sent over to fight a war you do not believe in will yield more results than trying to protest another country's leader decision. Just my take.
   The brittish do have a great military force, so any time we can have them on our side we more than welcome it. However that's all we do, as dont have the power to demand brittish military aid, nor do we wish to be able to demand it.

lumpy,
READ MY POSTS. As always, the last post answered your questions in detail. If you want to have an argument, at least try to read my responses. If reading my posts causes your brain to overheat, try holding your breath. There should be enough wattage left to read if you shut down your autonomic nervous system. Maybe, I’m wrong there. You could make sure you are sitting on the floor, just in case you end up shorting out your mind. In short, I am saving your posts to present to my friends who are on the fence regarding this whole democrats/Republicans thing.

Diesel you are right,should of made it clear I was a Brit,and I do take note of your points.Being an ex serviceman I always support the troops,maybe not the reason,but always the troops:}

Bush could clear the air about his military service, but instead he refuses to release his personal records.

I wonder why?

Here’s a pretty comprehensive overview of the Bush-AWOL story, including a link to the Boston Globe story. The criticism at the time on that Boston Globe story was NOT that it was innaccurate, but that it was somehow “unfair” to uncover the story only weeks before the 2000 election. There is also allegations that Bush’s campaign handlers “scrubbed” his military record… these allegations coming from an officer in the Texas National Guard, if I read the story correctly.

http://www.talion.com/georgebush.html#10

It’s got some pretty interesting information. For instance, did you know that Jimmy Carter had more active military experience (7 years) than any other president in the last 100 years, except Eisenhower?

Bush=2004. Nuff said!

I don’t really have a problem with Bushes drug abuse, or his alcohol problems. Hell, he’s human. We all have our shit that we have to work though. I don’t have a problem with Billy having an intern polish his knob in the oval office. It isn’t the first, and won’t be the last. I sorta have a problem with Bill dodging the draft, since my family had to be in it. Hell, even my Grandmother served with honor, with the WACS, and was on of the team that used a computer that filled up a whole room with no more computing power than your digital watch, and the broke Nazi code right before D-Day. Even more disgusting to me is that for some reason GW has all the military guys whooping like a bunch of adreniline pumping apes over him flying in a plane and landing it on an aircraft carrier. I don’t really care about the photo op, but I despise that he was one of those “silver-spoon-up-the-ass” draft dodgers, and we all know it. We can try to rationalize a way around this if we want, but sadly we all know that he DID get out of going to vietnam, and he was a coward.

Wow Lumpy, you actually came through and connected a good link through a crappy one. Why couldn’t you just post the Boston Globe article? Instead connecting to the crap link. Did you check out the front page of that article? It is a publicity firm. Here is a quote from this web site:

"The USA’s most innovative publicity firm

"We specialize in getting stories into the news. Talion.com is the USA’s only full service publicity firm designed for small and mid-sized budgets. Most of our clients are in the creative industries: authors, publisher, inventors and entrepreneurs and musicians. "

Why do you constantly have to let these types of people do your thinking for you?

I now understand this story. While he was stupid to not show up for duty, he thought (stupidly) that if his function was being phased out, it wasn’t important to show up. After finding out how much shit he could get into, he got back and “made up” for his missing days.

I find this to be a stupid minor story about events thirty years ago that are not relevant today. Was he stupid? Yeah. Did he take this position to avoid going to Vietnam? I don’t know, because I am not psychic, and will not try to say I know what was in his mind. But I will make the assumption that he did go into the guard to reduce his chances of seeing active duty.

Surprising that you support the Vietnam War. I thought that you would support the people running off to Canada. Vietnam was a scary situation beyond what was experienced in Iraq, and there were thousands of people doing what they could to avoid the situation. Going into the military seems to be the most honorable way to do that. He could have still seen active duty if his unit was called up. I should point out that I am not defending him not showing up though. Again that was just plain stupidity.

Again I want to know why we are supposed to be upset about Bush missing duty, getting in trouble for it, and making it up with extra time later, and yet we are supposed to forgive Byrd for being in the KKK? Double standard?

Again if you cannot smell the political spin…

roy batty,
For malicious intent and accepting innuendo as facts, you are hereby inducted into the swamp gas smelling, liberal propaganda regurgitating, bad guys club. You’ve earned this dubious disctincion. Here is part of your last post.

“Even more disgusting to me is that for some reason GW has all the military guys whooping like a bunch of adreniline pumping apes over him flying in a plane and landing it on an aircraft carrier. I don’t really care about the photo op, but I despise that he was one of those “silver-spoon-up-the-ass” draft dodgers, and we all know it. We can try to rationalize a way around this if we want, but sadly we all know that he DID get out of going to vietnam, and he was a coward.”

roy, ever served? Ever flown a supersonic jet aircraft? Ever been drafted? Do you do things on a daily basis to help your fellow Americans? What has your contribution been to America? Was he dodging the draft? Why didn’t he take a desk job? Have you thought about the reasons that the military loves him? Why did he check the box for voluntary service in vietnam during his Guard tour?
I’ll tell you why the military loves him. They love him because he put his money where his mouth was. He flew. He served. Recently, he ordered the Viking pilot to let him fly. He wanted to fly a fighter, but the Secret Service nixed that notion. He spends time with the troops. He is one of them. He does honor to the White House and his role of Commander in Chief. No scandals. Always wears ties in the Oval Office. When he says go, we know he is doing it because he believes it is in the best interest of America. Contrast this to billy boy who attacked pharmaceutical plants in sudan to take the pressure off his failings as President.

Here are the two most reprehensible portions of your last post, “GW has all the military guys whooping like a bunch of adreniline pumping apes” and “he DID get out of going to vietnam, and he was a coward.” This slander on our Commander in Chief and our armed forces is disgusting. This pushes the limits of free speech. Do you burn flags as well?

"Did he take this position to avoid going to Vietnam? I don’t know, because I am not psychic, and will not try to say I know what was in his mind. But I will make the assumption that he did go into the guard to reduce his chances of seeing active duty.
"
LOL!!!

Gee, going into the National Guard and NOT signing up for active duty will “reduce the chances for active duty”?

Ya think so?

Brilliant!

“I now understand this story. While he was stupid to not show up for duty, he thought (stupidly) that if his function was being phased out, it wasn’t important to show up. After finding out how much shit he could get into, he got back and “made up” for his missing days.”

Oh, okay, HE DIDN’T GO AWOL, he was just “being stupid” and didn’t reprt for duty but it’s okay because “he made up for it later”

LOL!!! Talk about wiggling! “Being stupid and not showing up for duty”… That’s what GOING AWOL IS!!! Most guys DO “make up for it later” by being dishonorably discharged or going to Leavenworth prison.

Except when you are the son of a Congressman, you are priveliged and do not have to do what everyone else does.

Why can’t people make a distinction between personal qualities and public policy? Why do Americans feel the need to put their party’s president on a moral pedestal when it is clearly not warrented? This isn’t a partisan remark, it has gone on throughout American history. To become president in a democratic system, one needs a certain quantity of sleeze.

US=GG,
No I do not burn flags. In fact, it may surprise you to know just how patriotic I am. It amazes me that supporters of this president choose to think that anyone who does NOT agree with their view are somehow unamerican!

Now, I will grant that my statement should not have been so harsh on the members of the military, as I do respect them and support the troops. My beef is with this idea that it is wrong to question or disagree with the president. Were you this hard-lined when Bill was in office? I doubt it. You disagreed with him as it was your right as an American to do.

I know that you know the answer to your questions about whether or not I have served, as I have posted this on other threads that you have also been on. I was a military brat, and I have a brother in law and a cousin in Iraq as we speak, so more than ever I support our troops, and wish them a short and successful tour. I can tell you that, although I am too old and they may not want me, I would fight if I were asked. I do love this country, and I don’t have to participate in blind president-worship to prove it.

Bush was a coward though. Being a military guy I would think that you would be disgusted with this. Had he been anyone else, he would have done time for what he did. Well, he wouldn’t have been able to get in that champagne unit in the first place, and probably would have been drafted and forced to serve like the rest of the soldiers that fought.

What would you do right now if you had the opporunity to fight or go into the air guard with someone pulling a few strings? My guess, based on your typical posts, is that you would choose to fight, and would frown upon anyone who would duck out of it. So why do you defend it with GW?

This concept of the president being a draft dodger has really bothered me. Trying to look past my resentment though, I asked one of my employees today what his thoughts were on the topic. He is a good person to ask because of his military record, and his time with the state police. He is a captain of the SWAT team here in my city, and he has probably seen more “combat” than anyone I know. He had a perspective that helped me understand why you guys in the military still love Bush, despite his cowardly past. As he put it (paraphrasing), if he had to serve under a draft dodger, he would rather it be someone who at least gave more support to his cause. He sited working under several Captains in his early years – some who had combat experience, and some who would piss their pants if they touched a gun – and some of those who had not had real exemplory records were better because they gave his guys better support. So on that note, I guess I understand men and women of the military being more accepting of Bush, despite his background, because their needs are better served by someone who is a lot more supportive of the military.

So I will give you that, but he still gets marks against him in MY book for doing it.

Oh, and US=GG, slander is spoken, libel is written, but it is not considered libel if the written statement is true. Therefore, my statement is not libel!

Lumpy: Thanks for putting words into my mouth. Exactly when did I say he wasn’t awol? He got in trouble, and had to make it up. As far as going into the National Guard, I am sure there were plenty of people who went into the Guard without having political fathers. Again do you remember I said what he did was stupid?

Now answer the question you avoided, why are we not supposed to forgive Bush but we are supposed to forgive Byrd for being in the KKK?