I didnt know Bush had been AWOL while in the National Guard. Could somebody tell me what his reason was?
I dont think anyone who's run away from his duties to the country should ever be president. You lead by example, and to do otherwise is hypocrite.
I dont tbelieve you should have thr right to say what to do with our troops lives if you didnt have the responsibility to fulfill your duties in any one branch of the military period. Anyone whos never served in the armed services is off my list. Anyone who's served dishonorably and was AWOL, shouldnt be elected either. It shows favoritism for the Bushes and disregards the responsibility of the commander in chief to safeguard the lives of our troops instead of sending them to fight a war when he's ignorant of the risks they're taking, or when he wouldnt have the guts to do the same.
Ive been very pro-Bush so far. However, because I never researched on him I didnt know he was AWOL from something as safe and easy on you as the Air National Guard. This is a big blow to Bush and no way in hell is he getting my vote with the exception being if he was AWOL because of a death or the birth of his daughters.
What are the circumstances under which he left?
No he did not go AWOL,but Bush was suspended from flying in 1972 for failure to take the annual Air Force medical examination.
Diesel, I’m glad you’ve done a little research and have seen the light. If you look back to the “Hell Yeah War” thread, I think Daranos mentioned the fact that Bush didn’t serve.
Bush did go AWOL. He never showed up for National Guard duty. And that is just plain sad. Because at the time, joining the National Guard was just a way to dodge the draft and avoid being sent to Vietnam. Many others tried using this same method & joining the Guard, but Bush (thanks to his father’s connections) was able to catapult himself to the top of the list.
Bush claimed that he wanted to help by learning to fly planes. Well, the Boston Globe obtained copies of Bush’s military records and found that not only had he stopped flying for the last 18 months of service (1972-1973), but he had also failed to report for guard duty for a long period of that time.
In '72, Bush moved to Alabama to work on a campaign. He was given permission to do training at a unit in Montgomery. However the commander of that unit as well as his administrative officer both told the Globe that Bush never even showed up. Bush later returned to Texas after the election and, according to his military records, did not return to his unit for months.
So ultimately, Bush shirked his duties at the National Guard for a year. And yes, during this time he also failed to take a physical (as Zippy said in his post, above).
If you are searching for an honorable or even an acceptable reason as to why he went AWOL, stop. There is none. It all just smacks of selfishness and cowardice. And to answer your question, Bush went AWOL circa 1972. Both of his daughters were born much later (November 25th, 1981).
There are never any good reasons to go AWOL. There are reasons that might make a military court lessen your sentence.
The miltary is the one place you can go to jail for showing up to work late (Failure to Repair). If neither of Bush’s commanding officers file charges, then they are to blame. It is hard to judge exact what happened with out conducting an article 52 investigation. If one was conducted, I would like to read it.
For right now, He is the President and the Commander and Chief (just as Cliton was). D in the military you will learn if you can not respect the man, respect the rank.
Just a note: I did not for for either Bush or Gore. I did work for John McCann until he withdrew.
Best of Luck.
Diesel23
You are going to be labeled one of the “BAD GUYS” for writing posts like this.
Watch out!
Deisel, I know that had to be hard for you to write that, and I just want to point out that I respect the fact that you have the cojones to speak your mind truthfully. I just hope that all of those out here who have been in various debates with you take the high road and avoid gloating on this thread. So far the responses have been respectful. I hope that stay that way. Thank you for your honesty.
Bring on the fire.
As I said, someone who cant serve his country, cant ask someone to serve it.
That in spite of the great job Bush has done with Iraq, and Afghanistan. It's not a matter of political party. It's a matter of principle.
Diesel, I take it from earlier posts that you are or have been in the military. What branch and what did/do you do?
Batty I am not in the military. I am currently undergoing the process of enlinsting in the Marine Corps. I, ahemhmm, mightve had asthma as a kid. Just might’ve, cough, cough. Me and my recruiter are trying to work around the potential problem (It’s a felony to lie about your medical history in order to get in the military. Asthma is a non-waiverable permanent disqualifier)
If everything goes smooth I'll sign up under the delayed entry programm which will send me to Boot Camp by October. Im still trying to choose a job which a) I will feel good about doing while in, and b) which will carry over VERY nicely to the civilian side. I will be everything but 'a former Marine who now works at a cleaners'. I'll be a Marine who is now FBI, CIA, a pilot, a police officer.
This guy from my lil town, a prior service Marine, re-enlisted in the Corps - his title is too weird to memorize, but his job will be to infiltrate beyond the front lines with a small squad, and laser-designate targets for the Navy to hit with Tomahawks. Now THAT's a dangerous job...
For those of you who've seen black hawk down - in the end, the Marines came back in to help the Rangers and Delta Forces, after everything had gone arie. My recruiter was one of those guys in the infantry unit. He's the only one in his office who's ever been shot at, and as he put it 'It's no fun'. Guy's a pure Marine, and why I wanna join in the first place.
Sorry if my post seemed like gloating. It’s just that I had posted on this topic a couple of times, and nobody seemed to take it seriously. So when I saw Diesel23 post on the subject, I had to comment.
Diesel23, I am certain you would make an excellent Marine, you’ve got the burning desire.
Most of Bush’s generation dodged the draft. Clinton did the exact same thing.
Diesel23, lumpy, cupcake,
Diesel, it sounds like you are guilty of not reading some of my posts. The shame! We have gone over this before. I will paraphrase my thoughts.
I find the allegations about AWOL to be very troubling. People should fulfill their obligation to the military. If he went AWOL, he was wrong. However, I am not convinced that he was AWOL. I read the sites that lumpy indicated, there is a ton of information missing. You, being a democrat, immediately brought out your mud-slinger. You jumped to a conclusion using emotion. This is typical. I, however, will take a more pragmatic approach to this. I need A MUCH LESS PARTISAN SOURCE THAN THE BOSTON GLOBE AS THE CHIEF INVESTIGATIONAL SOURCE. It is easy for a democrat to assume that EVERYONE INVOLVED WOULD IMMEDIATELY BEND THE RULES FOR THE SON OF A MINOR CONGRESSMAN. I just do not accept that. This is slander against many people in the military establishment. Someone, somewhere, knows the truth. Frankly, I don’t see the truth in any of those articles. You can make lots of guesses and assumptions. Perhaps substance abuse was an issue. As a direct contrast to your hero, billy-boy, George W. Bush has freely admitted having a substance abuse problem in his youth. That is no excuse. However, I’m frankly more inclinded to believe this than your charges of “chicken.” Did you notice in your article that George W. Bush checked the box for voluntary service in Vietnam? Your little democratic friends tried to brush this off by saying that George W. knew this would be rejected. Again, the all powerful minor Congressman Bush to the rescue.
Diesel, remember that George W. Bush flew jet aircraft up until the time in question. Remember that the partial service records that we know of, showed him to have been an excellent pilot. Again, we do not know what happened. Either way, there may very well have been a substance abuse issue. Perhaps he was disclipined. If he went AWOL, then the onus was on his superior officers. Also, keep this in mind when you vote, remember that state of the military in the year 2000. Think about the morale and prestige of the military today. Remember this. Do you want another democrat who uses the military as a political tool (see sudan) to shift the focus from his personal foibles, or do you want a man who uses the military in the best interest of the American people. I hope you watched the U.S.S. Enterprise speech. Notice the standing ovations?
cupcake, thus far, I have ignored you. However, when you say “It all just smacks of selfishness and cowardice” I take exception. Who are you to call a man who served a “coward?” Have you ever flown a supersonic military jet aircraft. No, you are just some little snob whose only contribution to society is posting cartoons on Testosterone.
lumpy, as far as gloating goes, I can’t wait until November 2004. I will be smiling.
Wait a second…a politican…is a hypocite. Oh and the bushies are treated with favoritism. Wow what revalations! Sorry had to do it. However, I’m glad to see your research has shown you things that Rush Limbaugh wouldn’t dare say.
P.S. Remember folks, regime change starts at home
ummmmm…donald rumsfeld was in the navy. he was a pilot and the all navy wrestling champion. or at least an all navy wrestling champion. (no idea what weight class)
Ahhhh…US = Good Guys…
Did I post here? Anywhere? This is the second time that you have refered to me as if I had posted something contrary to your posts when this has not been the case. Are you on a low-carb diet and Cupcakes are on you mind? Whom exactly do you mean?
I have absolutely no interest in getting involved with a “Goose stepping, mindless sheep who is incapable of thinking for himself or questioning authority because you are too enthralled in your fascist wet dream to realize that questions lead to answers”
Or a
“Non-critical thinking bully who has been castrated by blind patriotism and is now only a eunuch in the service of hyperbole”
Or even a
“Mentally impotent puppet who although still articulate is unable to develop independant thought and is reduced to regurgitating any random message that has been spewed forth from sources from the right and that have managed to stick to the inside of your otherwise empty head. Unfortunately it’s usually the most ridiculous and responsibly reprehensible thoughts that share the stickiness and adheasion properties of mucus and manage to stay.”
Sorry, I am in a bad mood but please leave me out of your “stuff” god forbid I end up on a fucking “List”
“Too grumpy to quote”
~ Cake
I will probably vote for Bush because of what he's done. I'm still pissed our military's commander in chief dodged the draft, but to think another Bill Clinton might be in Office scares me to death.
I personally dont need our military spending drastically cut. Bill Clinton and his staff are directly responsible for Mogadishu, 1993 (black hawk down). Accidents happen, but they stop being an accident when you send a SMALL LIGHT force to the heart of a city heavily armed, without any armor, air support, or anti-armor. You just don't do that.
Bill Clinton once lost the secret codes to every single one of our country's nukes. Way to go Billy.
Billy, when presented with intelligence pinpointing where Osama Bin Ladded was, took too long to make a decision. The target was lost.
Billy lost opportune targets in Iraq because he refused to see anybody while he watched his golf game on TV.
Billy turned Air Force One into a plce where he acted in such a sexually depraved way, had it been a military commander/general, he wouldve been discharged right away.
Billy once fired one of his staff's security - this guy held the 'nuclear football'. He was sent back to the white house by himself. Not very responsible Billy.
US=GG said "George W. Bush has freely admitted having a substance abuse problem in his youth. That is no excuse. However, I’m frankly more inclinded to believe this than your charges of “chicken.”
Oh, okay, Bush was too busy partying, he wasn’t actually “chicken”. Thanks for clearin. that up.
Bush was trained to fly a jet that was already scheduled to become obsolete only months later. Training in the air force is apparently specific to each plane (not a case of “fly one, fly 'em all”). By training Bush on a “plane without a future” it was a lock that he would not get called into action later.
“You, being a democrat, immediately brought out your mud-slinger. You jumped to a conclusion using emotion. This is typical.”
What you try to do is change the subject by bringing up Clinton, when we are talking about BUSH. I don’t blame you, the facts are not on your side, and you are embarrassed.
lumpy,
I bring up billy boy only to show your hypocrisy. I LOVE IT when I see democrats trying to act righteous and moral! I love it when some dumb ass (lumpy) tries to moralize about partying. My God, were you asleep from the years 1992-2000?!? We just suffered through the most corrupt and morally bankrupt President since nixon. Wait, of course you were asleep, you voted for him.
Nothing you can say or do will change the fact that George W. flew supersonic jets and apparently was an excellent pilot. He served. Your hero, billy boy ran and hid. I have no idea whether the plane he flew was “obsolete.” Tell me what is the point? Were other people flying that plane? Was this possibly standard Guard aircraft used as a prelude to another plane? Did no one who flew this plane eventually fly in vietnam?
Again, if Bush did all the things you allege, I have a real problem with that. Again, your sources SUCK. I will be watching to see if someone with less of a political agenda can ferret out information.
lumpy, if you ever cause me to change a subject or dodge an issue, I will immediately give away all my possessions and join you in the forest. I will devote my time to a tree right next to yours. I will scrounge around for grubs and wear a “Gore in 2000” shirt right along with you. I will say things like, “Everyone deserves a free house” as we demonstrate in berkley. I will rail against the innovative and successful along with the other democrats. In short, it will be a cold day in hell when you EVER cause me to engage in any sort of intellectual dodge.
US=GG,Your loyalty to your President is commendable but misplaced.As someone who does not live in the USA I have no axe to grind with either party or indeed your country.
Having spent three months this year in the USA I can vouch that Americans are some of the nicest people I have met,and you have a great country to live in.
Blind loyalty often leaves those unwilling to seek the truth,and when they do find it,they dismiss it as rubbish as it does not fit their agenda.
without going into lots of different examples,Bush is not a leader of the people,there are far too many skeletons in that particular closet,and it is a shame,because the American people deserve much better.
Zippy, you're correct. Please be kind enough to stay out of it.
This is not about blindly following our president. It's about supporting the man who's taken up arms against evil and terror (yes, Saddam and his regime were evil - just look at the thousands of bodies bureid by Saddam that came up just this week).
This discussion in particular is about showing that Bush is a much more responsible leader, who deserves my vote more than Bily Boy did and many of his fellow democrats do.
As you pointed out, this is a discussion between us americans. It's also a very partisan issue wether we want it or not.
Zippy, rest assured, we do not need the advice of someone who crawls out of his little hole and immdeiately bashes in the illusion he's an authority in another country's politics and worthy of giving out advice to the most powerful, most prosperous country in the world.
This is not disrespect. We do not go to your country and tell your people how to do things. Not only do we not care, we know we have no business telling other countries how to do their things. We only ask you do the same - keep your mouth shut when it comes to the american citizen's politics, and to american citizens only.
Please, don't take this as a threat to anything else you do in these forums, as Im sure your other contributions are great.