T Nation

Burst or Long Run?


#1

some body said

I only do short cycles now which range between 21-30days, i use heavy short burst cycles and low dose short cycles, its very rare if i go for anything long nowadays, i prepare my body with a prime before any short cycle weather its heavy/med/low i always do a prime which ranges from 4-8 weeks depending on what am planning,

I don't count how many i do in a year i just keep doing that 30 days on then pct which is normally only for a short time or sometimes i bridge/cruise cycles together then i start to prime, this is more or less what the pro's do but they use some extreme dosages coupled with a good bridge,

Secret is preparing your body for any cycle, creating an environment for muscle tissue to grow and this is done with a good solid prime, hit the cycle aggressively and let the body grow in short burst just like it does during baby years and teenager yrs, no point in anyway staying on cycle longer than than you should, all your doing is creating more sides and will be harder to maintain and recover, when you have stopped growing come off and go into pct then prime again, its a excellent way of building new muscle tissue than just chasing new muscle tissue or just wasting AAS

I wanted to get your thoughs on this. Short burst or back to back what do you think would be better? I like the ideal but I have also read that stopping after 4 weeks is stopping when you start growing the most.


#2

lol…no


#3

Are you johhnyk53?


#4

No that’s a message I copied and pasted. I seen it on another board and was wondering about it. So I though I would ask you guys what you though,.


#5

I’m actually going to begin doing this. 5wk cycles, and run about 3 per year. Run the cycles with a low dose of clomid to keep your testes signaling. The concept of this is to recover as fast as possible, with the chance of keeping a greater percentage of gains. I looked into this, because I stop being gains from any cycle around week 8, and alway ran the cycle about 14 weeks and had a hard time of recovering.


#6

[quote]jared530 wrote:
I’m actually going to begin doing this. 5wk cycles, and run about 3 per year. Run the cycles with a low dose of clomid to keep your testes signaling. The concept of this is to recover as fast as possible, with the chance of keeping a greater percentage of gains. I looked into this, because I stop being gains from any cycle around week 8, and alway ran the cycle about 14 weeks and had a hard time of recovering.[/quote]

clomid on cycle? good lord… the reason gains stop around week 8… myostatin increases in an attempt to maintain homeostasis


#7

Is there a way to block myostatin. I know of a product that clames to kill it but I do find it hard to swallow. I tried the product before along with dbol and blew up 30 lbs but it’s dbol all junk weight


#8

[quote]barfly320 wrote:
Is there a way to block myostatin. I know of a product that clames to kill it but I do find it hard to swallow. I tried the product before along with dbol and blew up 30 lbs but it’s dbol all junk weight
[/quote]

Folliststin can be increased and myoststin decreased by relatively large doses of vitamin d. Like 6000 iu/day

All the other method look like bs to me, except perhaps follisttin injection , which I did and promtly fucked up my Achilles’ tendon .


#9

creatine monohydrate also has very minor myostatin inhibiting properties


#10

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]jared530 wrote:
I’m actually going to begin doing this. 5wk cycles, and run about 3 per year. Run the cycles with a low dose of clomid to keep your testes signaling. The concept of this is to recover as fast as possible, with the chance of keeping a greater percentage of gains. I looked into this, because I stop being gains from any cycle around week 8, and alway ran the cycle about 14 weeks and had a hard time of recovering.[/quote]

clomid on cycle? good lord… the reason gains stop around week 8… myostatin increases in an attempt to maintain homeostasis [/quote]
No shit


#11

[quote]jared530 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]jared530 wrote:
I’m actually going to begin doing this. 5wk cycles, and run about 3 per year. Run the cycles with a low dose of clomid to keep your testes signaling. The concept of this is to recover as fast as possible, with the chance of keeping a greater percentage of gains. I looked into this, because I stop being gains from any cycle around week 8, and alway ran the cycle about 14 weeks and had a hard time of recovering.[/quote]

clomid on cycle? good lord… the reason gains stop around week 8… myostatin increases in an attempt to maintain homeostasis [/quote]
No shit[/quote]

my bad, of course you knew that


#12

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]jared530 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]jared530 wrote:
I’m actually going to begin doing this. 5wk cycles, and run about 3 per year. Run the cycles with a low dose of clomid to keep your testes signaling. The concept of this is to recover as fast as possible, with the chance of keeping a greater percentage of gains. I looked into this, because I stop being gains from any cycle around week 8, and alway ran the cycle about 14 weeks and had a hard time of recovering.[/quote]

clomid on cycle? good lord… the reason gains stop around week 8… myostatin increases in an attempt to maintain homeostasis [/quote]
No shit[/quote]

my bad, of course you knew that[/quote]

Asks stupid question…yet knows everything. I like all these new guys lately


#13

hello all!

i have been on short cycles for a year now… i tried long cycles(8-12 weeks) for some 3 years. of course, the gains were ok, but there was one thing that my GF noticed and told me one day : “you are always so optimistic before a cycle and so happy about the gains at first, but then you always lose that after a few weeks” which got me thinking…

i remember one on my big cycles with deca in it and i red on the internet that deca takes weeks to “kick in” so i was on my 3rd-5th week of the cycle goin all : “oh hell, the deca will kick in soon and imma grow”… gues what - nothing changed after week 4… and so i started a log in my computer - i weighted myself and measured bodyfat every day and calculated each weeks average weigh/bf increase or drop.

long story short - i came to notice that i NEVER gain SHIT after weeks 4 or 5 of ANY kind of cycle even if i up my protein, steroid dose or total cals… all i can do is double the food and get fatter.
i tried all long ester steroids and came to an understanding, that there is no such thing as “kicks in after 3 weeks” for me - its either working at day 1 or not working at all.

so i red up on some short burst cycles - how to front load etc, and been doin them for a year - even with long esters like sust, i just dont see any difference on myself.

i gained about 35 pounds in like 5 short cycles, and after losing some bodyfat, i have kept a solid 20lbs even when carb depleted and starving a bit.

20lbs is not much for 1 year maybe, but the fact that i was 147lbs natural when started bodybuilding, and 202lbs when started juicin must be taken into consideration.
after 3 years of experimentation i was 242lbs on bulk which isnt much, but thats because of all my 2-3month cycles i was actually growing only 4 weeks…
after some cut i was around 225lbs back then… now im 242 at my leanest a year later.

i will never do any long cycle again…
frontload whatever you wanna run, and stop ASAP if you see your gains slowing down… i also have 0 sides thanks to this - i never need and AI even on 1g of test, cause as soon as my nipples get sensitive, my cycle ends…
never have any testicular athrophy or whatever also… i have a pack of proviron to use on cycle just in case…never needed any thou…

p.s - sorry my bad english, its not my first nor my second language, so its prolly bad(been learning from american sitcoms only).


#14

[quote]Semigall wrote:
hello all!

i have been on short cycles for a year now… i tried long cycles(8-12 weeks) for some 3 years. of course, the gains were ok, but there was one thing that my GF noticed and told me one day : “you are always so optimistic before a cycle and so happy about the gains at first, but then you always lose that after a few weeks” which got me thinking…

i remember one on my big cycles with deca in it and i red on the internet that deca takes weeks to “kick in” so i was on my 3rd-5th week of the cycle goin all : “oh hell, the deca will kick in soon and imma grow”… gues what - nothing changed after week 4… and so i started a log in my computer - i weighted myself and measured bodyfat every day and calculated each weeks average weigh/bf increase or drop.

long story short - i came to notice that i NEVER gain SHIT after weeks 4 or 5 of ANY kind of cycle even if i up my protein, steroid dose or total cals… all i can do is double the food and get fatter.
i tried all long ester steroids and came to an understanding, that there is no such thing as “kicks in after 3 weeks” for me - its either working at day 1 or not working at all.

so i red up on some short burst cycles - how to front load etc, and been doin them for a year - even with long esters like sust, i just dont see any difference on myself.

i gained about 35 pounds in like 5 short cycles, and after losing some bodyfat, i have kept a solid 20lbs even when carb depleted and starving a bit.

20lbs is not much for 1 year maybe, but the fact that i was 147lbs natural when started bodybuilding, and 202lbs when started juicin must be taken into consideration.
after 3 years of experimentation i was 242lbs on bulk which isnt much, but thats because of all my 2-3month cycles i was actually growing only 4 weeks…
after some cut i was around 225lbs back then… now im 242 at my leanest a year later.

i will never do any long cycle again…
frontload whatever you wanna run, and stop ASAP if you see your gains slowing down… i also have 0 sides thanks to this - i never need and AI even on 1g of test, cause as soon as my nipples get sensitive, my cycle ends…
never have any testicular athrophy or whatever also… i have a pack of proviron to use on cycle just in case…never needed any thou…

p.s - sorry my bad english, its not my first nor my second language, so its prolly bad(been learning from american sitcoms only).[/quote]

This has actually peaked my interest. So have you used this protocol with deca with success? How much are you frontloading?

What’s your first language BTW? Your English isn’t bad at all.


#15

Yea this is what I was wondering to. I read about bursting before. Can you give a detailed rundown of your cycles. I’m not into the decca thing myself. that decca dick kinda bothers me. I


#16

I would advise no one to listen to Semigall


#17

although he is not too far off…


#18

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
although he is not too far off…[/quote]

Not too far off as in correct about the short bursts being a good idea, or?


#19

ironmanzvw - i havent done deca yet, cause i dont like the fact that its almost 2 years in your system… the thing with short cycles is that one of benefits you get is health… you can jump of the cycle right before sides kick in, and other health risks caused by steroids are minimal cause human body and organs are made to take big hits more successful than long term torture… i mean - you kill your liver drinking for many years, not just by getting drunk as fuck one weekend a year.

there was actually a study of big dosage of A-Bombs not causing any liver damage in short run(i think that study was posted on this website). But after 2 years being off deca im starting to think i might try it sometime soon.
Anyways, you could try getting NPP and have no worries at all imo.

For now, i have been doin dbol, test e, sust, tren ace and tren e. We dont have too much options in here, so i will have to try deca someday anyway.
I think that deca wont be no different cause i read on forums that many people belive that test needs some weeks to kick in, just like deca. Since test needs only 1 day to kick in(at least for me) i dont think deca is different - there is actually a chart on the internet showing that deca starts to diminish in your system after day 5 already, so all this “kicking in after 3 weeks” is either placebo, or just depends on individual, cause there is also a vid of Rich Piana on youtube, where he is saying smth about cycles mentioning that same compound(he uses deca as example) would work only for 5 or 6 weeks(cause of receptors or whatever).

As for my average cycle - i would do big doses to get all the gains in short time. Its smth like hit and run - you blast some epic dose, shock your body into growing, and gtfo as soon as possible.
Say, i would wanna do 4 weeks of sustanon 250. I would pin 1ml EOD or if id run dbol also, i could prolly stop sust a week or 3-4 days early.
As for front load - if my cycle starts on monday, i would prolly do 2ml on saturday and 2ml on sunday, and start 1ml on monday doin 1ml EOD after that.
Since its a 4 week cycle, you should also do a little front load of short esters or orals. I mean - i wont be starting dbol on monday. I would take a few in the prev. weekend or at least sunday night. Same with tren ace - you just dont want to be “almost ready” on week 1. You need to get all your hormone levels up to 110% on day one not to waste any time.

For these kinds of cycles short esters and orals are best - prop, tren, npp, dbol, a-bomb. But since we dont have many of those in here, or they are wery expensive(i mean prop is twice the price of sust, its just not affordable) i have to work with what i have and i couldnt say that its not working.

Ofc, im still a very noob, and althou i have gained a lot, on my 6’2 frame i still need a lot work done. But in the last year of tryin short cycles i know for sure - i wont be doin anything longer that 4 weeks ever again. I just have never gained shit after week 4 or 5 even when i was doin 12 weeks on deca or smth - i gained 90% of the weight in 4 weeks, some 10% in weeks 5-6, and nothing after that.

Mr.Walkway - im not tryin to advice anyone. I couldnt care less how people take their steroids. Im just sharing some of my experience, and will be happy if anyone would ever try that with some success…


#20

[quote]Semigall wrote:
ironmanzvw - i havent done deca yet, cause i dont like the fact that its almost 2 years in your system… the thing with short cycles is that one of benefits you get is health… you can jump of the cycle right before sides kick in, and other health risks caused by steroids are minimal cause human body and organs are made to take big hits more successful than long term torture… i mean - you kill your liver drinking for many years, not just by getting drunk as fuck one weekend a year.

there was actually a study of big dosage of A-Bombs not causing any liver damage in short run(i think that study was posted on this website). But after 2 years being off deca im starting to think i might try it sometime soon.
Anyways, you could try getting NPP and have no worries at all imo.

For now, i have been doin dbol, test e, sust, tren ace and tren e. We dont have too much options in here, so i will have to try deca someday anyway.
I think that deca wont be no different cause i read on forums that many people belive that test needs some weeks to kick in, just like deca. Since test needs only 1 day to kick in(at least for me) i dont think deca is different - there is actually a chart on the internet showing that deca starts to diminish in your system after day 5 already, so all this “kicking in after 3 weeks” is either placebo, or just depends on individual, cause there is also a vid of Rich Piana on youtube, where he is saying smth about cycles mentioning that same compound(he uses deca as example) would work only for 5 or 6 weeks(cause of receptors or whatever).

As for my average cycle - i would do big doses to get all the gains in short time. Its smth like hit and run - you blast some epic dose, shock your body into growing, and gtfo as soon as possible.
Say, i would wanna do 4 weeks of sustanon 250. I would pin 1ml EOD or if id run dbol also, i could prolly stop sust a week or 3-4 days early.
As for front load - if my cycle starts on monday, i would prolly do 2ml on saturday and 2ml on sunday, and start 1ml on monday doin 1ml EOD after that.
Since its a 4 week cycle, you should also do a little front load of short esters or orals. I mean - i wont be starting dbol on monday. I would take a few in the prev. weekend or at least sunday night. Same with tren ace - you just dont want to be “almost ready” on week 1. You need to get all your hormone levels up to 110% on day one not to waste any time.

For these kinds of cycles short esters and orals are best - prop, tren, npp, dbol, a-bomb. But since we dont have many of those in here, or they are wery expensive(i mean prop is twice the price of sust, its just not affordable) i have to work with what i have and i couldnt say that its not working.

Ofc, im still a very noob, and althou i have gained a lot, on my 6’2 frame i still need a lot work done. But in the last year of tryin short cycles i know for sure - i wont be doin anything longer that 4 weeks ever again. I just have never gained shit after week 4 or 5 even when i was doin 12 weeks on deca or smth - i gained 90% of the weight in 4 weeks, some 10% in weeks 5-6, and nothing after that.

Mr.Walkway - im not tryin to advice anyone. I couldnt care less how people take their steroids. Im just sharing some of my experience, and will be happy if anyone would ever try that with some success…[/quote]

Thanks for sharing your experiences with us man. Appreciate different perspectives.

Everything I have on hand is longer esters, and Dbol. I suppose I could give your proposed strategy a try and if by week 5 I’m not satisfied I could just drop the doses and go for longer.