It’s sad to see people who think that just because the next guy is not as good as they THINK they are, that person must not have done shit with their life.
I hope you are not the intolerant, ignorant fuck you sound like. You have no idea what landed these unfortunate souls where they are and no right to judge them. I know children who have been in Department of Social Services custody since birth and so many group homes\foster placements\hospitals\detention centers etc. that they have lost count. I know people schizophrenic and unmedicated with no family or friends to guide them. I’ve seen children beaten badly enough during infancy to close certain doors to them forever. I have an autistic son who certainly does not have all the oppurtunities you think are universal. Even if you are a buffed up, clean eating leader, I have more respect for a fat homeless guy who actually gives a shit about other people then I do for some fucker who works out and works hard just so he can sneer at the misery of others. Read Sabrina’s recent post; were you one of the fuckers on that corner?
While Diesel speaks in enormous generalities (in one aspect accurate, in many others way way off-base and unfounded), his do-gooder white-bread mentality prevents him from understanding what you guys are trying to tell him. Unfortunately for him, there are shades of gray involved and he likes things nice and crisply black and white. This is as much a waste as attempting to discuss politics with US=GG.
Diesal, you sound like a decent kid, but you need to live a little more, see a little more and learn a little more. I’m not flaming you, just asking you to keep an open mind.
Im sorry if I sound intolerant.
I have THE UTMOST respect for our veterans. I would NEVER include them in the same category as BUMS. See, they had the mental fortitude, the discipline, and physical strength, not to mention detailed knowledge in their respective skills, to do what they did. They are some of the smartest people Ive known, and most definitely amont the sharpest and most professional Ive met. By nature of their profession many becom disabled and suffer unfortunate setbacks. I dont care - they are still the same patriotic individuals who put country before self, who had the guts to put their lives on the line, and the same individuals who worked very hard to stay in good shape and to be a professional at whatever trade they did in the military. They’re everything BUT bums. If anything military personnel have by far the strongest resolve and discipline to aacomplish something of anyone Ive seen. Veteran or not, disabled or not, if they end up even homeless, you KNOW what fiber they’re made of, and you know they didnt end up there out of apathy for life.
That said, there are MANY who end up in poor physical shape/health making minimum wage, with family problems, because of very unfortunate incidents. They’re not what I meant by Bums in this post. They ended up where they did not because of apathy for being more successful, but because within reasonable expectation they couldnt do any better given their unfortunate situation. That said, these people too, have my respect.
What I DID mean by Bums is the type of person who never had a major setback happen to him BUT between age 20-40 he refused to go to college (not because of lack of brains, but because he didnt care) or serve in the Military and also come out with a valuable skill for the civilian world, didnt WORK HARD to move up in his position instead of spending 20 yrs brooming bathrooms without ever gaining additional responsibilities, never cared for his health and to possibly stay in minimal shape, and possibly waste his money and mental health on dope, booze, and partying - all while his life is…not going anywhere and he still keeps doing what he’s always done: the same low grade job WITHOUT moving up after yrs of service, see his health deteriorate, see himself become isolated from others, see whatever little money he has go towards dope/alcohol…
Trust me, Ive seen MANY of these individuals. By ‘These individuals’ I do not mean our veterans or those who had bad misfortune. I mean those who see their lives leading nowhere, and do nothing to at least earn enough to make a living, stay in decent health, earn additional responsibilties at work as you get older…something.
If you allow your life to be this way for 20 years when all you need to do is lift a damn finger to improve it, use that brain of yours, then…I cant honestly see any DRIVE in you, the ambition to be at least a little better. Even if just a little itty bit.
In the end my point was that some people have SUCH a HUGE drive and ambition that even though they were raised in poor families, with family problems, they still persevered and managed to become some of the most successful people around.
Two small examples of these two types of people are:
My uncle, after finishing highschool got a job full-time as a construction worker. Because of the way his family was, he was never encouraged to become a big shot, and his parents told him whatever he does he will still have to work full time. He didnt have a car and college was about 8 miles from home. So what did he do? He worked as a construction worker from 5am to 1pm as a construction worker, then RAN from home to class with a backpack, and ran back home from college with his backpack. He then stayed awake to well over midnight studying. He did that for 2 years in an environment that didnt encourage him to succeed or go to college - and it wouldve been SO MUCH EASIER for him to just work full time and see where thigns go from there. But he didnt and today he is Chief Engineer at a major company.
On the other hand Ive known many people who made a living out of brooming floors. I see some people of my age heading the same way - theyve been a doing the same low garde job for 6 years, smoking pot every damn chance they have, get drunk every other night, and after all their money is spent in pot and alcohol, they have the nerve to complain they cant afford to go to college because they’re always broke. When suggested the military service (not that they would be necessarily accepted) they simply shrug it off because they dont wanna die on a field. In the end they have neither the balls to do something, the brains to prioritize (i.e., college, trade school, military will get me somewhere, booze and pot wont), but most importantly the DRIVE to succeed despite whatever hard work they will need to put forth.
As another example (and I know I should stay away fromt he topic) when checking out which branch of the military I wanted to join, I spoke to the local Marine recruiters. They work the longest hours Ive ever seen anyone work. They’re there in the morning, they’re there in the afternoon, they’re there at 9pm. They’re there 6 days a week. Yet, they are by far THE most professional individuals Ive seen. The staff sergeant there got his Bachelor in education in the midst of deployments and long hours of training. See what I mean?
I think in the end it all comes down to what level of discomfort and hard work you’re willing to endure to be successful, and some just have a lower threshold when it comes to the ammount of effort they’re willing to put forth.
Then again I dont know WHY some people end up where they do and what the factors were. Just because I post an opinion it doesnt imply that what I say is the way it is. It just means Im curious and TRYING to understand why some things are the way they are.
I just couldnt see myself end up completely out of shape boozing and smoking pot day in and day out, going to work to a job Ive hated for 20 years but never managed to move up or get something better, and derive pleasure from nothing else but watching tv for 6 hours straight. I dont know, I might end up crazy.
A couple thoughts:
First, MANY Vietnam veterans did not choose to go to war, they were drafted. Many did run, defect, go to jail, but a large number of soldiers during that era were in the Pacific because they were required to be, not necessarily because they wanted to be.
Second, “brooming floors” is just as honorable as any other profession. I broomed floors through high school to help pay for college, and knew many many happy, wonderful people who were content to be custodians for the rest of their lives. Your perception of people is a bit skewed - ask someone who brooms floors whether they’d rather be a lawyer who is married to his work, or a soldier, and they might think you’re the insane one.
Third, often times the best way to understand people is to get out there and talk to them. My suggestion? Volunteer once or twice a month at a soup kitchen, or a shelter for homeless youth. You’ll get to know the people, and understand that there are infinite factors that can lead to their situation.
Fourth, and finally, realize the comforts you have, if you have a home, money, and ambition - these things are lost on many people, and compassion is a better emotion than disgust.
Andy
I’m just curious why you think that just because they ended up “Bums”, they had no ambition, drive or want to succeed in their life.
Too many circumstances to name have drug down driven people throughout history. It’s just a fact of life is my best answer to your inquiry.
Diesel: You sort of lost me when you lumped homeless people (or bums as you call them) and people with low skilled jobs together. As Rumbach mentioned, what makes a ceo of a large corportation any more noble a profession than the guy who sweeps floors or bags your groceries? Maybe the guy who bags groceries see’s his role in life as providing an income for his family while also having the time to spend evenings and weekends teaching his children how to throw a baseball and be decent human beings. Is’nt that contributing more to the world than the ceo who spends days, evenings and weekends trying to prove to his company and employees how important he is while his wife raises children who barely know him. Maybe his idea of ambition is simply different than yours, maybe being a “leader” of men or becoming a business executive to him seems less like a noble ambition and more like a useless, selfish pursuit.
As for homeless folks, I see them and deal with them everyday. The city I work in has one of the highest number of homeless people in Canada. As someone else mentioned, the overwhealming majority of them suffer some sort of mental or emotional dissability. Many of the young homeless are now third generation welfare people and are simply living the legacy their parents conditioned them to believe is theirs. For some it might only take a positive word from a teacher or coach to give them a little self esteem and a flicker of an impulse to actually be something other than a welfare case. Sadly there are many who never even experience that one kind and supportive word, ever. I see kids like this everyday and many of them don’t have a chance.
Again, I’m not flaming you diesel, I’m just asking you not to be so quick to judge the people you see as having no ambition or worse, “bums”. You don’t know their story.