Bulking with Lower Carbs?

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Consider the wisdom in creating a caloric surplus with the energy substrate that is most easily stored a adipose tissue.

If you’re worried about getting fat on your bulk, then either don’t bulk or get lean enough beforehand that some fat gain isn’t going to bother you.

You are at least equally likely to get fat from a surplus of fats as I are from a surplus of carbs. Carbs aren’t “stored as fat” (must undergo DNL beforehand) but fat is. Fat doesn’t make you fat without refeed to overall caloric intake, but thats not a golden ticket to eat a much of it as you want.

A low carb diet is great for fat loss, but inadvisable for someone looking to put on muscle. But, when all you’ve got is a hammer…[/quote]

I agree. But (and I think you’ll agree) that a high(er) carb diet can be just as effective for fat loss. [/quote]

How high exactly would be good for fat loss?

Surely you want to get at least 20% of your diet from fat, and a heavy dose of protein to boot. I’ve heard of bodybuilders doing 17% but I don’t think that’s optimal.

40/40/20 works well, but I prefer something along the lines of 45/35/20 or 50/30/20; P/C/F.

[/quote]

Ya 40/40/20 is a good breakdown. It provides adequate protein and fat, and enough carbs to make it more manageable. But I would not agree with the other breakdowns because protein is the dominant nutrient, and though protein is very important you wouldn’t want it as your dominant macro because you’ll increase protein oxidation and the conversion of protein into glucose. [/quote]

I usually don’t delve into science at all and stick with experience. Can you explain what’s wrong with protein being used as glucose/protein oxidation?

Many naturals, myself included, have used 50/30/20 splits with a lot of success – I don’t understand how the results can be anything negative.

[quote]Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Consider the wisdom in creating a caloric surplus with the energy substrate that is most easily stored a adipose tissue.

If you’re worried about getting fat on your bulk, then either don’t bulk or get lean enough beforehand that some fat gain isn’t going to bother you.

You are at least equally likely to get fat from a surplus of fats as I are from a surplus of carbs. Carbs aren’t “stored as fat” (must undergo DNL beforehand) but fat is. Fat doesn’t make you fat without refeed to overall caloric intake, but thats not a golden ticket to eat a much of it as you want.

A low carb diet is great for fat loss, but inadvisable for someone looking to put on muscle. But, when all you’ve got is a hammer…[/quote]

I agree. But (and I think you’ll agree) that a high(er) carb diet can be just as effective for fat loss. [/quote]

How high exactly would be good for fat loss?

Surely you want to get at least 20% of your diet from fat, and a heavy dose of protein to boot. I’ve heard of bodybuilders doing 17% but I don’t think that’s optimal.

40/40/20 works well, but I prefer something along the lines of 45/35/20 or 50/30/20; P/C/F.

[/quote]

Ya 40/40/20 is a good breakdown. It provides adequate protein and fat, and enough carbs to make it more manageable. But I would not agree with the other breakdowns because protein is the dominant nutrient, and though protein is very important you wouldn’t want it as your dominant macro because you’ll increase protein oxidation and the conversion of protein into glucose. [/quote]

I usually don’t delve into science at all and stick with experience. Can you explain what’s wrong with protein being used as glucose/protein oxidation?

Many naturals, myself included, have used 50/30/20 splits with a lot of success – I don’t understand how the results can be anything negative.
[/quote]

The premise is that by increasing protein to be your dominant macro it will be used for energy instead of being used for reconstructive purposes, as well as the increased tendency for the body to use incoming protein for energy. However if it has worked for you than thats great. Im not saying that it won’t work at all, but rather for the MAJORITY of people its not the best choice.

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

The premise is that by increasing protein to be your dominant macro it will be used for energy instead of being used for reconstructive purposes, as well as the increased tendency for the body to use incoming protein for energy. However if it has worked for you than thats great. Im not saying that it won’t work at all, but rather for the MAJORITY of people its not the best choice. [/quote]

Do you think that only one macro nutrient can be converted to glucose at any given time? If your diet consisted of 60% pro, 30% carbs, and 10% fats would the carbs and fats not be utilized as an energy source?

[quote]forbes wrote:
The premise is that by increasing protein to be your dominant macro it will be used for energy instead of being used for reconstructive purposes, as well as the increased tendency for the body to use incoming protein for energy. However if it has worked for you than thats great. Im not saying that it won’t work at all, but rather for the MAJORITY of people its not the best choice. [/quote]

Hey Forbes, not sure this can happen in the presence of sufficient total amounts of the other two macros, which is why Chi-Towns-Fitness reports great gains with that breakdown. From what I know, it’s more about sufficient amounts of carbs and fats rather than % of total caloric intake, but I’d like to get your views on this, and datas/articles if you have any.

So basically I should try sticking with protein as a dominant macro and see how I do? Like I said it’s around 45% of my daily caloric intake. I’ve yet to experiment with the differences between how I split the remaining 55% between carbs/fat. At the moment it’s more towards fat but I might switch it up and see if I notice a large difference in energy (especially when lifting).

[quote]Zen warrior wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:
The premise is that by increasing protein to be your dominant macro it will be used for energy instead of being used for reconstructive purposes, as well as the increased tendency for the body to use incoming protein for energy. However if it has worked for you than thats great. Im not saying that it won’t work at all, but rather for the MAJORITY of people its not the best choice. [/quote]

Hey Forbes, not sure this can happen in the presence of sufficient total amounts of the other two macros, which is why Chi-Towns-Fitness reports great gains with that breakdown. From what I know, it’s more about sufficient amounts of carbs and fats rather than % of total caloric intake, but I’d like to get your views on this, and datas/articles if you have any.[/quote]

Sorry if I wasn’t clear I only use 50% protein for the purpose of dieting. Otherwise, I emphasize carbohydrates for bulking.

I’ll usually use something along these lines (p/c/f):
Diet: 50/30/20
Bulking: 30/45/25

Thanks for clearing that up CTF. Curious to know it you did you notice any muscle loss while dieting at 50% proteins? That would be the first and most noticeable symptom of not enough carbs/too much proteins in your diet

[quote]Zen warrior wrote:
Thanks for clearing that up CTF. Curious to know it you did you notice any muscle loss while dieting at 50% proteins? That would be the first and most noticeable symptom of not enough carbs/too much proteins in your diet[/quote]

Yeah, naturally loosing 25 pounds will come with strength losses. Although my second contest is on the 13th and have been able to greatly minimize the losses this time around. For instance my flat bench went from 2756 to 2506, I’m not concerned it will be back in a month of training and proper eating! My front squat continued to increase and hit 260*3 five weeks out, now I’m more hypertrophy orientated though.

I stick to several basic supplements pre-contest:
-whey protein isolate
-fish oil/CLA
-multivitamin
-creatine monohydrate
-BCAA

At six weeks out I started using a thermogenic fat burner, ephedra free.