Most of my bulks in the past (and most I’ve read about here) seem to be centered around increasing carbs and/or fats by quite a bit as well as a moderate increase in protein. But what if you tried bulking with a slight bump in fats, a slight bump in carbs (to keep up with increased glycogen storage capacity) and a large increase in proteins?
I remember reading some stuff from CT a few years ago about how your body will use whatever macro is most abundant for energy, so to be careful, but in theory then could you not just set your protein to be slightly below where your net carbs were (for instance) and reap the benefits? Or would this stress your kidneys out too much?
Also this brings up the question about what to do when cutting…if you cut your protein back would not lose all your muscle? Or, more appropriately my second question is this: Does it take more protein daily to BUILD muscle, or the MAINTAIN it? So is there a certain amount I could cut my protein by which would stop muscle growth but would not begin catabolism?
id probably take it down to around 1gram per lb of bodyweight (especially if your not lean to begin with, which most people are not) and then find a level of dietary fat that you feel comfortable with and then fill the rest of the calories with carbs.
I used to over eat protein like crazy…I thought well I cant get fat from eating mostly protein, and I need a lot of calories to get bigger, so if I eat tons of calories from protein ill get huge and stay lean (yes I actually did think this)…eventually I managed to get fat, and during the time of over eating protein I had LOTS of stomach issues.
yah, I’m starting pretty cut right now, it’s just an idea I had for this bulk. I figured if I tried loading up on protein instead of carbs I would end up with less fat accumulation, since excess carbs are pretty guaranteed to end up being deposited in fat cells.
[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:
yah, I’m starting pretty cut right now, it’s just an idea I had for this bulk. I figured if I tried loading up on protein instead of carbs I would end up with less fat accumulation, since excess carbs are pretty guaranteed to end up being deposited in fat cells. [/quote]
well I started my reverse diet at like 4-6 percent bodyfat. my competition weight was about 172ish and I put protein 220 grams
for most people its about getting protein and fat in order then playing with carbs till you find a good spot
People tend to overestimate the amount of protein they need. Yes, hard training athletes need more than the average sedentary couch potato, but beyond a certain point, they don’t really contribute in terms of how much and how fast your body can build new muscle tissue.
As to the kidney issue; unless you’ve got a pre-existing medical condition, I don’t think you’re going to find any real medical evidence that supports high protein intake contributing to renal problems.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
People tend to overestimate the amount of protein they need. Yes, hard training athletes need more than the average sedentary couch potato, but beyond a certain point, they don’t really contribute in terms of how much and how fast your body can build new muscle tissue.
As to the kidney issue; unless you’ve got a pre-existing medical condition, I don’t think you’re going to find any real medical evidence that supports high protein intake contributing to renal problems.
S[/quote]
Right.
I also believe this is why some people think they are so called “carb sensitive” and can’t understand why some people can have a few hundred carbs per day. Maybe if they weren’t boatloading on protein, they could increase their carbs while keeping their calories where they want them. I had some guy yesterday tell me, after telling him what I’m doing now, that I should keep my protein higher than my carbs, and that in case it’s not all used, it will be "you know, like… " (he was obviously searching for the word ‘deaminated’) used for energy anyway. I asked, “Then shouldn’t I just eat those calories as carbs?”
Anybody cycle protein? Obviously we all have more on training days, but on off days does anybody dip well below their normal intake? I get 200-250 grams on training days and sometimes as low as 100 on off days and haven’t noticed any muscle or strength loss (I’m 195)
I think CT said something like having one low protein day a week ensures that protein won’t be a preferred energy source.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
People tend to overestimate the amount of protein they need. Yes, hard training athletes need more than the average sedentary couch potato, but beyond a certain point, they don’t really contribute in terms of how much and how fast your body can build new muscle tissue.
As to the kidney issue; unless you’ve got a pre-existing medical condition, I don’t think you’re going to find any real medical evidence that supports high protein intake contributing to renal problems.
S[/quote]
Right.
I also believe this is why some people think they are so called “carb sensitive” and can’t understand why some people can have a few hundred carbs per day. Maybe if they weren’t boatloading on protein, they could increase their carbs while keeping their calories where they want them. I had some guy yesterday tell me, after telling him what I’m doing now, that I should keep my protein higher than my carbs, and that in case it’s not all used, it will be "you know, like… " (he was obviously searching for the word ‘deaminated’) used for energy anyway. I asked, “Then shouldn’t I just eat those calories as carbs?”
No answer.[/quote]
Good point Brick. Obviously everyone is different, and to ignore this would be ignorant, but too many trainees believe they are “unique snowflakes” when it comes to nutritional needs and training. Most of the basic principles leading to success and progress apply to everyone
[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:
yah, I’m starting pretty cut right now, it’s just an idea I had for this bulk. I figured if I tried loading up on protein instead of carbs I would end up with less fat accumulation, since excess carbs are pretty guaranteed to end up being deposited in fat cells. [/quote]
This is not strictly limited to carbs: eating anything above what your body needs for growth and repair and daily energy needs will be stored as energy in the form of adipocytes. Amino acids can be stored in adipocytes just as easily as carbohydrates. 18 out of the 20 amino acids are glucogenic (except for leucine and lysine), meaning that they can easily be converted to glucose within the body to be used as energy. Thus, I don’t think drastically bumping up your protein will have the effect you’re looking for. If anything, I would look into something like carb cycling.
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
Anybody cycle protein? Obviously we all have more on training days, but on off days does anybody dip well below their normal intake? I get 200-250 grams on training days and sometimes as low as 100 on off days and haven’t noticed any muscle or strength loss (I’m 195)
I think CT said something like having one low protein day a week ensures that protein won’t be a preferred energy source.
Thoughts?[/quote]
I’ve been thinking about this recently myself; I’d like to hear other’s thoughts
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
Anybody cycle protein? Obviously we all have more on training days, but on off days does anybody dip well below their normal intake? I get 200-250 grams on training days and sometimes as low as 100 on off days and haven’t noticed any muscle or strength loss (I’m 195)
I think CT said something like having one low protein day a week ensures that protein won’t be a preferred energy source.
Thoughts?[/quote]
I’ve been thinking about this recently myself; I’d like to hear other’s thoughts[/quote]
I don’t think it would be wise to limit your protein on off days because muscle recovery/repair is ongoing during those times.
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
Anybody cycle protein? Obviously we all have more on training days, but on off days does anybody dip well below their normal intake? I get 200-250 grams on training days and sometimes as low as 100 on off days and haven’t noticed any muscle or strength loss (I’m 195)
I think CT said something like having one low protein day a week ensures that protein won’t be a preferred energy source.
Thoughts?[/quote]
Even on off days I’d still probably try to get in around 150 grams, because muscle breakdown and synthesis is still occurring. The BCAA content from your proteins should also help preserve the hard muscle you’ve been training for.
id probably take it down to around 1gram per lb of bodyweight (especially if your not lean to begin with, which most people are not) and then find a level of dietary fat that you feel comfortable with and then fill the rest of the calories with carbs.
I used to over eat protein like crazy…I thought well I cant get fat from eating mostly protein, and I need a lot of calories to get bigger, so if I eat tons of calories from protein ill get huge and stay lean (yes I actually did think this)…eventually I managed to get fat, and during the time of over eating protein I had LOTS of stomach issues.[/quote]
Do you have less stomach issues with lower protein? What issues did you have?
I dont personally think it would be a horrible idea. I dont think you need that much protein at all but, as long as you are in a calorie surplus you should gain either way. I personally wouldn’t go this route because good carb sources are much easier and cheaper to eat than good protein sources. A pound of Rice or Beans can be bought for about $2.50 same for a pound of chicken. With the rice or beans however you have over 2000 calories per pound as opposed to barely 600 calories for chicken. I am not made of money so ill stick with the cheaper route.