T Nation

Bulking Question

I’ve been thinking a lot lately on the subject of steroids role in “bulking” and it really seems to me like it wouldn’t play that big of a part. I mean even if you are on 2g of AAS you aren’t going to get any bigger if you don’t eat enough to grow. So it seems logical that you would only need something like 500 mg/week of test and maybe some GHRP6 for appetite stimulation and save the HGH and all the higher dose, multi compound cycles for when you are dieting down to low levels of bodyfat and really need to hang on to your mass.

Am I completely off base here or does this make sense? Seeing as food is the only thing that’s going to add pounds to your frame (sure AAS can add water weight, but that’s beside the point) I’d imagine you would just be fine using 500 mg’s test as “damage control” or whatever and just go to town on the chow.

Thoughts?

makes sense to me, you can do all the gear in the world but if you dont feed the machine you wont grow.For this very reason I plan on adding B-12 injectable into my next cycle to boost my appetite.

Many oldtimers would agree that food is the most anabolic drug there is.

I had a rude, newb combating reply all made up in my head while reading your post, then I realized who you were. Let us know when you change your avatar, ha.

I agree, 500-700mg is all one needs to grow.

[quote]DOHCrazy2 wrote:
I had a rude, newb combating reply all made up in my head while reading your post, then I realized who you were. Let us know when you change your avatar, ha.

I agree, 500-700mg is all one needs to grow. [/quote]

lol!

Well I’m glad we are in agreement here, would be much nicer to only have to spend $100 for a bulk cycle instead of like 400, good stuff.

[quote]horsepuss wrote:
makes sense to me, you can do all the gear in the world but if you dont feed the machine you wont grow.For this very reason I plan on adding B-12 injectable into my next cycle to boost my appetite.

Many oldtimers would agree that food is the most anabolic drug there is.[/quote]

B12 eh? I always hear differing opinion on that, some say it doesn’t do jack shit, some say it helps, keep us updated.

I do know that everyone says GHRP stimulates the appetite like a mother fucker, so I’m going to have to look into that.

It depends how far past your natural genetic limit you are.

Any amount past what you produce naturally is going to enhance you. As you progress further and further you will essentially need more and more to keep progressing. This is not however anything near the level of increase that most seem to employ (adding just 100mg per cycle is FAR above what is necessary).

But of course, you WILL grow more if you include other drugs (all else being equal - if the other factors such as training, diet, rest are not, then one shouldn’t be using PES) - insulin and GH namely, as the two other hormones involved to a large extent in the growth of muscle (plus the hormones that are associated with them such as IGF, etc.).

As for 500mg being all you need… it depends on the person, it is not the case, nor has it ever been that one can say “x amount of AAS is all you need for y effects” as they are drugs and dosing will vary by person.
This is one of the issues i have with the stickies, although i understand their need.

I honestly have been saying this for some time. Having run something like (approximately) 20 cycles now i still only use around 1g/wk as standard (sometimes more, sometimes less).

(of course this wasn’t the case by default and it took using larger doses over 1-2 cycles to learn this - or at least to form this opinion…)

Lastly on the topic of 500mg - you have to offset the level of inhibition you will have with the level of (therapeutic) effect which may suggest you would opt for a little more… but i agree fundamentally.

[quote]horsepuss wrote:

Many oldtimers would agree that food is the most anabolic drug there is.[/quote]

And this is clearly an issue as it should not be ‘oldtimers’ but ALL athletes and trainees.

Waylander please go into detail on GHRP,

[quote]J-J wrote:
It depends how far past your natural genetic limit you are.

Any amount past what you produce naturally is going to enhance you. As you progress further and further you will essentially need more and more to keep progressing. This is not however anything near the level of increase that most seem to employ (adding just 100mg per cycle is FAR above what is necessary).

But of course, you WILL grow more if you include other drugs (all else being equal - if the other factors such as training, diet, rest are not, then one shouldn’t be using PES) - insulin and GH namely, as the two other hormones involved to a large extent in the growth of muscle (plus the hormones that are associated with them such as IGF, etc.).

As for 500mg being all you need… it depends on the person, it is not the case, nor has it ever been that one can say “x amount of AAS is all you need for y effects” as they are drugs and dosing will vary by person.
This is one of the issues i have with the stickies, although i understand their need.

I honestly have been saying this for some time. Having run something like (approximately) 20 cycles now i still only use around 1g/wk as standard (sometimes more, sometimes less).

(of course this wasn’t the case by default and it took using larger doses over 1-2 cycles to learn this - or at least to form this opinion…)

Lastly on the topic of 500mg - you have to offset the level of inhibition you will have with the level of (therapeutic) effect which may suggest you would opt for a little more… but i agree fundamentally.[/quote]

agreed on all points…one piece of what i consider “great news” i think you all will too. After using whatever you choose to for many years (ie me) and develop a large amount of size (around 300lbs for me) then going on hrt for a few years and trimming back (250ish) i found much to my very pleasant surprise that i can very quickly put weight on with just a small boost in drug dosage. I went from a whopping 100mg of test to an enormous 200mg dose per week and added one thing, 200mg eq per week. within 4 weeks i was back at 270 which was somewhat shocking in a good way. Why the eq? well i didn’t want to get back on high doses of anything since i have to have blood work every 16 weeks, and there is one thing eq does better than any other drug IMO…makes me eat like a horse. So i contribute my gains primarily to the fact that i am back to a ravenous appetite, along with a small boost from the increased testosterone dosage. So…what i am getting at in an admittedly rambling manner is that your dosages will escalate over time, but with proper re-adjustment and off time (or pseudo off time in my case) you will once again respond to small doses, even if you are above your pre-determined genetic ceiling. The main factor i believe is CHANGE, a rapid influx of nutrients, combined with hormonal support.

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
makes sense to me, you can do all the gear in the world but if you dont feed the machine you wont grow.For this very reason I plan on adding B-12 injectable into my next cycle to boost my appetite.

Many oldtimers would agree that food is the most anabolic drug there is.

B12 eh? I always hear differing opinion on that, some say it doesn’t do jack shit, some say it helps, keep us updated.

I do know that everyone says GHRP stimulates the appetite like a mother fucker, so I’m going to have to look into that.[/quote]

If you want to eat, I know of absolutely nothing to compare with GHRP-6. It stimulates my appetite, basically, to uncomfortable levels. Like, I revert to an atavistic state, and there is no intellect, no outside world, and no goals and certainly no concern for keeping my bodyfat down or any stupid modern illogical construct like that. There is only the Hunger. There are not many instances in my life in which I literally feel out of control, but GHRP-6, unless I am already very full, makes me feel this way. I HAVE to eat and I do not stop until long past what I typically would ever eat. Maybe I’m particularly sensitive to it or something, but damn, if you wanna eat, it’s the cheapest peptide there is and it WILL stimulate your appetite better than anything else that I know exists.

For immediate results, you can go IV, but trust me, it is NOT recommended. I notice no real difference between subq and IM.

[quote]horsepuss wrote:
Waylander please go into detail on GHRP, [/quote]

I don’t know a whole lot about it as I haven’t done much research yet, just seen it mentioned several times in this forum. Obviously it does more than just this but it’s most notable characteristic seems to be that when it is injected you notice a significant increase in appetite, and you can use it several times throughout the day.

I know J-J uses it, I’m sure he’ll let you know more.

[quote]Cortes wrote:

I revert to an atavistic state, and there is no intellect, no outside world, and no goals and certainly no concern for keeping my bodyfat down or any stupid modern illogical construct like that. There is only the Hunger.[/quote]

LMAO - this cracked me up!!

[quote]J-J wrote:
Cortes wrote:

I revert to an atavistic state, and there is no intellect, no outside world, and no goals and certainly no concern for keeping my bodyfat down or any stupid modern illogical construct like that. There is only the Hunger.

LMAO - this cracked me up!![/quote]

haha, I think this is something I would like to try!

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
J-J wrote:
Cortes wrote:

I revert to an atavistic state, and there is no intellect, no outside world, and no goals and certainly no concern for keeping my bodyfat down or any stupid modern illogical construct like that. There is only the Hunger.

LMAO - this cracked me up!!

haha, I think this is something I would like to try!

It’s an interesting experience right enough.

However I now want to visit Japan and take Cort to an all-you-can-eat sushi bar or something, and administer 500mcg of G6 just to see the hurricane of gluttony that ensues.

BBB[/quote]

Can we make it a group trip?

It makes sense, how many tools on the boards do you see on 1-2g+ and still look average? I think it was Milos (I could be wrong) in an interview I read recently that talked about not needing much more than that 500 in the offseason, when your calories should be as high as possible. I think precontest he would start with 1g test and add other shit accordingly. My anecdote is this: The only cycle I ever ran was prop cut w/500mcg b12 at 525mg/wk for 6 weeks. I caught a case of ghey and was training and dieting to get shredded because I thought I was done playing ball, I was 213 and fucking shredded, then I got an opportunity to play somewhere else, I ended up 250 and still lean at the end of the cycle.

well I think I’m going to give this a shot (giggle). I’m probably going to take 6-8 weeks off and then run 12 weeks of test 500 mgs/week and then add in the GHRP 500 mcg’s once or twice a day. I feel like I need 20 pounds or so to get that freaky look, so I look forward to trying that GHRP.

Did you guys have just a shit ton of food laid out prior to injecting, or how did you handle the massive spike in appetite?

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
well I think I’m going to give this a shot (giggle). I’m probably going to take 6-8 weeks off and then run 12 weeks of test 500 mgs/week and then add in the GHRP 500 mcg’s once or twice a day. I feel like I need 20 pounds or so to get that freaky look, so I look forward to trying that GHRP.

Did you guys have just a shit ton of food laid out prior to injecting, or how did you handle the massive spike in appetite?[/quote]

I don’t want to speak for Cortes, but in the HGH thread, he said something along the lines of ‘If you don’t have something ready, you will go for whatever is quickest and easiest.’ He also went on to say for him that could be ‘ice cream, milk, whatever was around.’

In my opinion, I would have something ready.

Bulking cycles are generally much simpler than contest cycles. One is designed to build as much muscle mass as possible while the other has many many more results to be desired.

I have grown to be a fan of the less is more approach, because your statement of it doesn’t matter what your taking if your not getting enough or the right kinds of food in holds true.

I also agree that there will come a time where you are carrying enough muscle mass to justify staying ‘on’ all the time for the sake of just maintaining muscle mass, but I highly highly doubt that anybody on this forum is near that point. I’d save that for the elite pro bodybuilder status. This also comes down to genetics (like many things) because there are people like Lee Priest who have never used insulin and claim to only use a little bit of AAS pre-contest as he has no problem growing during a ‘bulking’ phase. (keep in mind the guy is 5’2" and under 200lbs and his genetics just prefer him to carry muscle)

on the topic of GHRP6 I really like it for its appetite stimulation, and I’d view it as our best shot as far as something to take when it comes to PED’s.

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
well I think I’m going to give this a shot (giggle). I’m probably going to take 6-8 weeks off and then run 12 weeks of test 500 mgs/week and then add in the GHRP 500 mcg’s once or twice a day. I feel like I need 20 pounds or so to get that freaky look, so I look forward to trying that GHRP.

Did you guys have just a shit ton of food laid out prior to injecting, or how did you handle the massive spike in appetite?[/quote]

everybody is different. I, for one, look for something sugary and in liquid after my shots. I was pounding juices, ice cream, sugary and fattening stuff to curb the hunger. If you shot then had a steak and potatoe chances are you wouldn’t satisfy that hunger and for me it can get so bad where I start shaking and sweating (similar to going hypo).

but my favorite thing to do was to go to hometown buffet, lay all my food out, hit the ghrp6 in my truck…then go do my thing lol I did it that way because I didn’t want to pin, drive there, wait in line, and have many minutes go by in agony before eating lol.