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Bulking Details

I am in the process of buying my winter bulking cycle but don’t know exactly which drugs to use along with it. I have heard conflicting statements about anti-e and PCT drugs. I really want to know what the experts think before I buy any more gear. I am 6"2 230lbs @12% with ten years training and several cycles under my belt.

Week 1-12 Test E 750mg/week
Week 1-12 Tren E 150mg every third day
Week 1-6 Dbol 30-50mg/day
*I have nolv on hand to counter any gyno that may come up, but should I run proviron or A-dex along with the gear to prevent gyno?

PCT: I will start pct 2 weeks after my last shots.
I already have nolv, clomid, and HCG. I was planning
Week 15-18 nolv 20mg/day
Week 15-18 clomid 100-50mg/day
Week 15-18 HCG 5000i.u./week

It was brought to my attention that the HCG would be better used if it were used 250i.u. twice a week during the cycle. Should I run it during and after? Which would be better?

*another side question- I saw a thread were bill roberts posted some very good results from tren and anadrol. Would I get better results from a tren/test/abomb cycle?

750mg a week of Test E is a very respectable amount for bulking. I might encourage something closer to 200mg on the Tren E if you hit it E3D. Remember that 200mg of the Enanthate is only the same amount of Tren Ace at 150mg. If you ran Ace 50mg is really a minimum starting point. So 200mg of TrenE E3D should also be considered a minimum.

If you’ve cycled before you should have an idea of what you’ll need for estrogen control. I too use proviron on cycle but admittedly it should not be considering in the same class as any of the true AI’s. If you need a true AI and don’t have gyno history then a-dex is your best option.

Have had slight gyno before with high test levels mixed with a-bombs. How much a-dex is an appropriate daily dosage during the cycle?

[quote]2thepain wrote:
*another side question- I saw a thread were bill roberts posted some very good results from tren and anadrol. Would I get better results from a tren/test/abomb cycle?[/quote]

If you’ve read Bill’s older articles on mesomorphosis.com, you’ll see that he used to recommend tren+dbol for his 2-on, 4-off cycle plan. A lot of athletes followed those recommendations with good results.

He has mentioned within the past few months, on this site, that his thinking has evolved and that he now thinks tren+anadrol is a better choice than tren+dbol.

I don’t think you’ll go too far wrong either way. I’m running tren+test+dbol on my next cycle, and at some point in the future I’ll probably give tren+test+anadrol a try also.

By the way: “winter bulking cycle”? Do you live in the southern hemisphere, or are you just laying your supplies in really early?

I just noticed how much test you were going to be running. So let me amend my thoughts: you’re better off with dbol.

This is not based on my personal experience, as I have not yet used Anadrol, but again on what Bill Roberts has written many times - specifically, that Anadrol is a harsh drug when stacked with large doses of aromatizing compounds, but relatively mild otherwise. At 750mg/week of test enan, that would suggest avoiding Anadrol.

What dosages are you going to be running on your test/tren/dbol cycle? The reason that my tren is a little low is because I have never shot it before. I used it as fina pellets with dmso. As I understand injecting will be much more potent and I am not sure what my body can tolerate.

Go here bulkmuscle.com/pct/index.php

to get a look at how much gear you’re gonna have in your blood after about the 4th week on that cycle. It’s always interesting to see it all spelled out in front of you compared to what you thought you had planned.

[quote]2thepain wrote:
Have had slight gyno before with high test levels mixed with a-bombs. How much a-dex is an appropriate daily dosage during the cycle?[/quote]
In your case then letro is to be preferred. A-dex IMO is for non-gyno people whereas Letro is much better where gyno is or has been present

Sapasion - I am in no way questioning your comments as I understand your knowledge in this field to be far greater than my own. I just want to clarify what I ment by slight gyno. I noticed light pain in my nipples and began taking nolv at 20 mg a day. The pain went away in several weeks. Do you still recommend letro over A-dex? Also does letro have any negative affect on gains? I hope I’m not bugging the shit out of you but I really want to make sure this cycle is solid.

[quote]2thepain wrote:
Sapasion - I am in no way questioning your comments as I understand your knowledge in this field to be far greater than my own. I just want to clarify what I ment by slight gyno. I noticed light pain in my nipples and began taking nolv at 20 mg a day. The pain went away in several weeks. Do you still recommend letro over A-dex? Also does letro have any negative affect on gains? I hope I’m not bugging the shit out of you but I really want to make sure this cycle is solid. [/quote]

Absolutely not glad to help. And yes, that is an important clarification. A-dex is a fairly powerful anti-aromataze agent, arguable second only to letro. Reducing estrogen by more than half. Normally a-dex comes into play when cycles hit the 1G of Test neighborhood. There is of course a huge variance in different bodies conversion of Test to estrogen. Normally, I counsel a-dex as the AI of choice because as you eluded to some estrogen is necessary and too little will definitely effect your gains. For non-gyno sufferers A-dex is almost the perfect answer.

Your case is interesting because you mentioned it went away with just Nolvadex but that it took several weeks to clear up. I’d like to know what caused the flair in the first place aka what you were on exactly at that time. Then what you plan for your next cycle. A-dex might truly be enough to prevent this outbreak again.

However, in cases more severe in yours I would definitely advise going straight to the proven leader, Letro. Letro so massively, reduced estrogen that gyno is a virtual non-issue. As aforementioned though, there are problems with too little estrogen; especially for one looking to make muscle and strength gains.

Your case truly seems to be a borderline one between a-dex and letro. I suppose you could try a slightly higher dose of A-dex [1-2mg ED]or a slightly lower dose of Letro [2.5mg EOD or even 1.25mgEOD]. Its a relatively fine line between maximizing gains and not growing tits

At the time when gyno flared up I was running 850mg test/week, 600mg deca/week and anadrol 50mg/day. This cycle is test E 750mg/week, tren E 400mg/week and (dbol 50mg/day for first 6 weeks.) I was using 50mg of proviron ed but it didn’t work against the abombs.

[quote]2thepain wrote:
At the time when gyno flared up I was running 850mg test/week, 600mg deca/week and anadrol 50mg/day. This cycle is test E 750mg/week, tren E 400mg/week and (dbol 50mg/day for first 6 weeks.) I was using 50mg of proviron ed but it didn’t work against the abombs. [/quote]

Yeah proviron is fine for total gear below 1G a week but you’re obviously way beyond that.

For your purposed cycle I think were wise to swap dbol in and drol out. You can keep the proviron if you want but definitely use either a high dose of A-dex or a low dose of Letro

Yeah, you know the best part about proviron? the baldness. Nothin beats going bald.

i know several people who swear by running masteron in small amount with every cycle. they do that to prevent gyno. about 200mg a week

What would be considered a high dosage of A-dex? Would .5 or 1 mg/day work.

[quote]RoidEnthusiast wrote:
Yeah, you know the best part about proviron? the baldness. Nothin beats going bald. [/quote]

There’s no need to perpetuate gear myths; we might as well start talking about roid rage now.

[quote]2thepain wrote:
What would be considered a high dosage of A-dex? Would .5 or 1 mg/day work.[/quote]

Many people would consider .25ml ED a starter dose. In your case yes you definitely want to be at at least .5ml ED given your history. If you use research chemicals might as well go 1ml to start.

DHT linked to genetic male pattern baldness is no myth. What do you think proviron is.

[quote]RoidEnthusiast wrote:
DHT linked to genetic male pattern baldness is no myth. What do you think proviron is. [/quote]

Yeah, yeah, yeah there’s a link no doubt. But, shoot different people respond differently to the same products. I’ve ingested several grams of proviron over the past 3 years; no baldness for me. I also don’t get Bacne either from Test or Deca-Dick or other things which are linked together.

[quote]RoidEnthusiast wrote:
DHT linked to genetic male pattern baldness is no myth. What do you think proviron is. [/quote]

Yes…and DHT is related to prostate enlargement as well. Having said, and if that is a concern, there are DHT blockers that inhibits the conversion of test into DHT.