T Nation

Bulking/Cutting Cycle, Winstrol V or Not to V?

Even though I’m a ways out from doing a cutting cycle I’m getting everything now because the money and the opportunity may not be there then so I’m trying to stack up and everything now

Lucky to be under 18% brah

now_i_care are you still on here homie?

i started my cycle on december 17th… i reread our converstion on here many times over and over…and so heres what ive done…cycle is:

weeks of cycle to be determined but i figure 12-14
i am on week 5 now…

week 1-12 test enanthate 600mg per week
week 1-5 dianabol 40 mg per day…at 10 mg, 20 mg, and 10 mg
week 1-12 proviron 50 mg…at 25 mg morning, 25 mg evening
week 1-12 arimidex .25mg daily, or eod, its tricky with the dbol to dial this in

supplements:

fish oil…3mg morning and 3 mg evening
flaxseed oil…1 tablespoon post workout
multivitamin daily
creatine 5g daily after typical loading phase first few days
magnesium citrate 1.2 grams per day

i wasnt able to even start lifting until i started my cycle…i have a great lifting history, at least personally, and i wasnt loaded on creatine until that first week, also with the holidays falling right then i lowered my dbol dose on 3 days to 25 mg, and on new years day i didnt take it…hence the 5 weeks instead of 4 as planned

so i had muscle memory, creatine loading and nutrition all coming in with the cycle…i know people could jump on here and be like why didnt you wait to start the gear a while…i didnt wanna wait i had to wait long enough, anyways i did it and its been fun lol

i weighed 154 lbs@ 5’5" and i climbed windmills everydays…i was in shape

i have retained some water, dealt with blood pressure being a little high…i was fine today tho, water is retaining some, blood pressure is at the high end of normal

i completed week 4 yesterday and started week 5 today…

i weighed 183 with jeans on, i started at 154 with jeans on…

im doing well i believe im having fun and being safe

its really hard to keep the eating up my little stomach isnt happy with me i get around 3000 a day since beginning the plan…

so im up 29 lbs on day 1 of the 5th week (started 12-16 and its 1-14 now)

obvioulsy calorie and protein increase, muscle memory, and creatine all have played factors, as well as water retention which actually isnt bad today, but thanks for the advice n all that im doing well and having fun…the dbol works lol, but it can make me feel lethargic, which i believe is the estrogen war…

just really having a hard time with the nutrition, i have to force my stomach to hold down all this shit lol

also im getting about 250 g of protein per day

if your still on here i posted new stuff at the bottom

I didn’t see a question in there so I take it this is just a general update.

Since most of us that cycle tend to do multiple cycles here some food for thought. Pay attention to how you respond to the dbol this cycle with your current dosage schedule throughout the day. Next time you run it if you wanted to, try using it as a “pre workout.” I myself prefer it in one large dose about 45 minutes to 1 hour before I hit the gym. I don’t know that I get any actual benefit from it but I feel like I have better energy and strength in the gym.

You weight change is significant. It’s a good amount. Remember, and this is a rough estimate, at least 5-10 lbs of that is water. I believe if memory serves me a gallon of water is like 8-9 lbs, so when I say 5-10 pounds of water on you there is your volume reference. There really isn’t anything you can do about the water weight except eat as clean as you can and if you are using an AI do your best to properly dose it. The water weight just comes with the territory of running gear, especially long estered gear. Also with how much creatine you are consuming you might even be closer to 9-14 pounds of water. It tough to estimate. It’s just something to keep in mind for when you PCT and all of a sudden that scale drops by 5-15 pounds. Losing that weight post cycle is actually good to lose. Once that water comes off you get to see better definition.

If you keep taking the creatine post cycle and there really isn’t anything wrong with that, you will not have as much of a significant drop in weight. However if you continue with the creatine as in it is in your diet from now on, your body will start to get use to it and it will slowly drop the excessive water that the creatine is making hold. You still hold extra water but it will just not be as much. It’s like the super bloat that some guys get on it will slowly go away. You might not even get the super bloat so.

I didn’t re read the whole conversation we had so if said this before just bare with me. You can run the Proviron up to PCT but don’t take it during and I would at least wait two to three months post PCT before you take it again that is if you plan on keeping it in the mix regularly. It isn’t supposed to be suppressive so it shouldn’t interfere with your post cycle recovery but it still is in the anabolics family so just be on the safe side and don’t risk it hindering your recovery. I know a lot of guys think it helps during PCT but all that thinking is based from a time when they didn’t have SERMs so the anti estrogen like effects of Proviron we’re very welcome post cycle back then.

Have you had any issues?
Keep in mind that when you stop the dbol that is going to correspond to the timing of the testosterone enanthate build up. Basically the extra AI you needed for the dbol might be about the amount you are going to need once the test enanthate builds up in your system. It’s going to be tricky figuring out your dose because really the first few weeks you have only been dealing with the estrogen from the dbol but once you drop the dbol that’s the time the test enanthate will be at a level you need to watch. Heck you might not even need the AI while on just the test. I hope I am not confusing you, I just want you aware that the timing of the compounds needs to be understood when adjusting your AI dosage.

There you are, I wasn’t sure if you were still around.

Yes it was an update, basically. Im starting week 6 tomorrow. I have had issues such as lethargy, blood pressure going up at certain times of the day, and water gain. A few days ago I was holding a lot of water and I had like a lower back muscle cramp “pump” attack, followed by a feverish feeling that laid me down the rest of the night, it was later in the evening, and I believe it was the notorious test flu. I did what I thought was best and dropped the dbol. I only had a few more days left on it and I figured maybe the test levels coming up, as the timing would suggest, was telling me it was time to move on now. I was only planning on running the dbol 4 weeks at 30mg, but ran it at 40 mg a day from the start. I took 2 days off for xmas and new years to have a drink, so I factored that into the extra week.

The weight gain was significant, and I looked inflated at times lol, no definition weighing as high as 183, and that has dropped to 174 in a few days. I also had a couple drinks when I came off the dbol and It helped drop that water. I have a ton of definition compared to what it was a week beforehand. Its crazy how much better I look today vs. last week. I don’t even care about the scale. And its pretty cool to know that this isn’t even over yet, its the test e turn.

I don’t know how this ends but if were able to put 6 more “keepable” pounds on I would be elated. if that went as high as 10 I wouldn’t have much to complain about in my life at that moment lol.

Couple things…I have a hard time with the food…im a little guy…im 5’5" and my stomach is made for that frame. I just don’t know how anyone could eat 5 or 6000 calories everyday. I was having panic attacks when I first started because of all things I didn’t think I could hold and process enough food to do it. heres how I have got this far:

Meal 1:
breakfast shake:

1 cup milk 2%,1 scoop musclepharm combat protein, half cup oats, 3g fish oil, 1.2 g magnesium citrate, multi vitamin

Meal 2:
pre workout shake:

1 cup milk 2%, 1 scoop musclepharm combat protein, half cup oats

Meal 3:
Post Workout Shake
2 cup milk 2%, 2 scoop muslepharm combat powder, half cup oats, I large banana, 1 tbsp flaxseed oil, 5 gm creatine

Meal 4 to meal 5(if I have a 5) is high calorie high protein for example ill buy a roast kit from Walmart and eat half of it and have the other half the next day. or make a pot of spaghetti or ghoulous with those protein pasta.

Meal 5 and 6 or 6 and 7
bedtime shake that I drink half of and wake up randomly and drink other half:

2 cups fat free milk, one half cup oats, 2 scoops muscle pharm combat powder 3 gm fish oil

That’s what I been living off of, forcing myself to take it. The calories vary on the meal or two I eat depending on the day. But the shakes alone make sure I get at least this (including the meal or meals 5 and 6)
*3000calories
*250 to 300g protein
2 to 300 gm protein

I bring all this up for I don’t know what reasons…maybe I need more now maybe im doing it wrong…im a rookie, I wont pretend to be a vet. What do you see? The test is alive now and I don’t wanna fuck this up if I am…maybe im doing good, I don’t know I have doubts sometimes…

well hey thanks for checking in on me, ill keep you updated

oh one last thing Im gonna cruise when my cycle ends at 12 or so weeks. not sure when, its day to day

also I have arimidex and use it and yes I understand the “timing”, I survived the dbol so I know the ups and downs and how shitty I can feel…and im paying very close attention to that. I was like a lot of people when I started…hardheaded, you learn fast that way lol, or you give up, it wasn’t easy battling that dbol. it would’ve been a lot easier if I went 30mg a day vs the 40 I end up doing. I had plenty of it, that was my rationing…lol…

hey I got a new post up 2nd Cycle, Decicsons decisions…love you to take a look at it