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Bulking/Cutting Cycle, Winstrol V or Not to V?

Getting prepared to start a cycle I have five vials of test e 300 mg I have a 100. 20mg dball pills I’m going to do a bulking cycle I thought about adding Deca to it just didn’t know if it was worth it looking for advice on this cycle I know people come in here and ask all these questions and you get sick of answering them but I’m good to go I’m 5 foot 5 40 years old I weigh 162 pounds I’ve trained on and off for 20 years I’m in pretty good shape probably about 20% body fat I guess who knows.

I wanted to add Winstrol V to that cycle to try to caught up at the end because I want to bulk up but I want to kind of be caught up at the end of it that’s where a lot of my confusion comes in people debated different ways I’m looking for someone to read my stuff and be like hey this is what you need to do f*** the rest of the world but I didn’t know what I should add to that and also this whole HCG thing I almost got it then I didn’t I’m back and forth It’s hit-and-miss whether you should take it or not people debate it I’m just not sure about it also thought about running NPP for the first 8 weeks to go with the DECA didn’t know if the test e would be a good match to go with that right off Rip but I already have the test e and the DECA so let me know what you guys

think sorry to sound like a newbie I’ve just read so much and research so much for so long that I have way too much information and it’s kind of Norma’s looking to gain 50 pounds of lean muscle on this cycle laugh out loud. Post cycle will be Clomid Nova provigil and Cialis. I have the money to do this cycle right so the length of it and whatever I should add or take away is all good. I’ll post pictures precycle once I get this thing going track my progress and post pictures when I’m done I won’t be like the rest of the guys that come on here and ask stupid questions you get sick and answering and then you never hear from them again I’m all in I’ve been planning this for years.

Your stats have to be off. No one with 20% body fat at your height and weight would think they are ready for juice. Roughly you have over thirty pounds of fat if you are accurate and that means you would be well under 145 lbs at a decently low body fat precentage. Granted I don’t go looking at a lot of men’s physique pics so I can’t picture what you would look like if these are accurate numbers. If they are then some dieting would be in order before cycling.

I say this next part only a few years younger than you. You are at the point where building muscle naturally is harder, just facts. Get blood work done. If your numbers are accurate then maybe you should look at TRT to help you along before you do a full cycle. That is if you are low end for test and chances are.

You did not state if this if first cycle or not so I can only comment without the knowledge. If your numbers are accurate then having dbol in there is not the best idea. In no way should you be thinking about Deca or any other injectable because you didn’t even mention an Aromatase Inhibitor. If you are accurate with your numbers and you do the test and dbol especially without an AI expect serious estrogen issues. Body fat aromatizes test on it’s own and you have dbol a highly aromatizing compound in there with extra estrogen from body fat and the estrogen from the regular test aromatizing all without commenting on a AI.

I am going to assume your numbers are off and this is your first cycle. Just do test that way you can learn to manage just one new compound at a time. You need to get an AI like arimidex, or aromasin. They will keep your body from turning the test into estrogen.

As far a HCG goes well are you going to blast and cruise or is this just a cycle? Are you possibly going into TRT? The HCG use during a cycle keeps your balls working but it also makes you aromatize testosterone that an AI can not control. You will need a SERM for that estrogen of it gets out of control, go with Nolvadex it is better at blocking gyno.
The other way to use HCG is the old school way and you just blast it before PCT to turn on your balls, it’s old school for a reason. You get a better transition to post cycle with the use throughout the cycle.
Ultimately it up to you. If you are not worried about fertility and like the idea of being able to shoot blanks and not have kids from all the sex resulting from a libido in high overdrive while on cycle then fuck it don’t use HCG. I am joking with the last comment sort of. It’s your health take it seriously.

Since I don’t know if your stats are accurate or not I think you should go do blood work before deciding anything, you will need it anyway. If you are low end test and those numbers are accurate then explore TRT to help out before a cycle. You might and probably will find TRT will do what you want.
If those numbers are not accurate and you are well below 15% more like 12-10% body fat then explore a test only cycle (again I don’t know if this will be your first). A test only cycle especially at “our” age will blow you away with results and chances are you will end up doing some sort of blast and cruise anyway. You need to fat down because of your heart health especially on cycle.

I will close with trying to picture stats on other guys that are of a different height than me is not my strong suit. I could be totally off here but I know 20% is high for going into any cycle and I can’t imagine a guy at 20% at any height thinking he is good to go, that has to be a inaccurate number. I know what 20% looks like. If you are using a home digital scale or those calipers from the vitamin store to get this number then that might explain it, they are not accurate. They just help you know that you are moving in the right direction when addressing a concern.

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No it’s not 20% it’s about 15 give or take I’m not fat or out of shape I just don’t have a six-pack popping don’t like that I have Arena decks I didn’t add that in there just didn’t know whether to add Winstrol V or not cuz I want to be caught up at the end of it and the whole thing about HCG basically trying to get this cycle perfect for what I want which is the bulk up and then tone it and cut it as best I can at the very end I can get my hands on anything I just didn’t know what to add and I was not sure about adding Deca if it would be counterproductive at the end of my cycle for what I want to do

Ok your description of what you want out of a cycle is what they call a body recomp.

Again you didn’t say if this is your first cycle or not. I have to stress this. If this is your first cycle then only do testosterone. If you do two or more compounds and you have side effects then you will not know what is causing them.

Ultimately you control what happens on a cycle with diet. Now some stuff is easier to gain with and some easier to cut with but ultimately it is diet. Deca is not nor has it ever really been known as a cutting compound. It does help you burn fat because of a stimulated metabolism but all steroids do that. Deca is hormone roulette some guys end up with limp dicks and long term suppression. I would stay away from it until you have a lot of experience.

For what you stated as your desire you can totally do that with a testosterone only cycle. Notice I keep pushing test only. Get some test enanthate or cypionate run it at 500 or so mgs a week for 12-15 weeks. If you want then front load it with double dosage the first week. Then for the first 10 weeks eat clean but high protein with some carbs and fat. Train like a beast, it will be easy too trust me. Then at week 10 switch to low fat lower calorie diet with double the cardio. You will be blow away with the results!

Winny is hard on joints, at “our” age we look like we have arthritis when on winny. I have already talked Deca. HCG is a personal choice but it makes transition to PCT and post PCT smoother. So if you go with current methods I believe it is 500iu’s a week split into two equal doses. If I am not accurate on that hopefully someone will correct me.

Before you start pinning make sure you have either arimidex or aromasin. Read up on them. Some guys wouldn’t bother to use them at your dosage but you need to have them available in case you start having issues like growing boobs. For PCT you just need Nolvadex. You dose it at 40 mgs a day for two weeks then 20 mgs a day for two weeks. When you stop pinning the test wait 2 weeks at least then start PCT.

There you go a basically fool proof first cycle that will let you get any result you want and your finished product will be way better than you thought you would get. No need for a second compound until you know how to handle one and recover from it.

In the mean while you should read and learn because you will most likely do another cycle, everyone does and just about everyone says I am doing just one…yeah right.
Read up on half lifes, esters, estered hormones, aromatase inhibitors, SERMs, PCT timing for short ester chains and for long estered chains, sanitary injection technique.

Don’t forget blood work before you start, you need to know your base line so you can see if you have recovered properly. You should also get it post PCT to see if you recovered properly.

I am gonna say it one last time, testosterone only cycle is what you need. You will be blow away with your results and want to do another just to see what you can push yourself too. The first few cycles should be testosterone only until you know how to keep everything in line like your estrogen and side effects.

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This is what i had in mind…i already have test e 600mg. 5 vials. and 100 20mg dbol and 50 1mg arimidex…

Week 1-15. 600mg test e
Week 1-4. 30 mg dbol
Week 10-15. Winstrol v
Week 1-15 arimidex .5mg eod

Week 17-21 sss post cycle stack

I am listening just thought id put that out there

Still don’t know if this will be your first cycle?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I give up.

I feel like this didnt post but i said yeah i did a sustonan deca cycle 4 years ago. 6 weeks deca 8bweeks test. I wasnt eating or doing what i needed too. Other than my balls being tiny evertthing was fine. Think deca killed my drive. Not sure. I was 37 so who knows. My gf at the time was fat anyway. My shoulders hurt all the time. Think its joints so i should probably run from winstrol huh. Idk its so intriguing to me. Maybe an alternative. Maybe just test. Idk i already have plently of dbol and test right now.

Ok you think Deca killed your drive last time. Just a thought stay away from Deca. There are things people swear work to counter act Deca dick but why chance it.

Your revised plan with winstrol in it for the weeks 10-15 means you would have two toxic orals in one cycle. Yes you have weeks 5-9 as no orals and you could get injectable winny. The time frame between orals could/probably should be longer. It’s your choice. It’s your liver. If you were to look at injectable winny the thing is 99% chance it will be suspended in water. Idk if you are using UGL brand winny but I will assume. Anything suspended in water is a recipe for infection and possible abscess. The method of sterile water suspension is just hard to do and keep sterile and that is even if the UGL tries to be sterile. Other hormones are suspended by having a solvent (which helps kill bacteria), some sort of sterilizing agent (if used) then it is suspended in oil and hopefully heated. The oil makes it hard for anything to grow and the solvent kills most things and then if you are lucky that sterilizing agent just makes it all the more sterile. Water suspension is just a petri dish. Even if they use bacteriostatic water that stuff is only good for so long before it doesn’t kill or hinder bacteria growth. I personally only use oral winny because the one place I did get oil suspended winny from no longer carries it. Water suspended injectable winny is just too much of a gamble.

Since you have had a cycle before then I think just dbol is enough of a second compound. I don’t know if you used an AI like arimidex or aromasin on your last cycle but the lowered sex drive could have been from estrogen. Dbol is a heavy aromatizer so be prepared to dose your AI accordingly.

Being that you had issues on the other cycle and you have never run just testosterone we don’t know what caused your issues. If you have issues on this cycle you will again not be sure what is causing them. Most likely it would be from estrogen if the issue is during the dbol weeks.

A nice alternative to winny is Proviron. It is DHT based and you could run it the whole cycle. It is well tolerated and no toxic to your liver. It has an anti estrogen like effect but does not replace an AI. It helps you keep you gains cleaner and you will have less water bloat while using it. Plus just about every guy suffers the side effect of an increased libido, so it’s a nice add in all around.

In your PCT you listed provigil that search came back as a sleep medication. If it is actually your UGL’S name for Proviron then I would not take it during PCT. Everyone says it does not suppres you but it is still an anabolic. During PCT you are trying to recover test production I wouldn’t make your body work against the Proviron/provigil if infact that is what it is.(Proviron)

There is no real reason to take both Nolvadex and clomid but I dont think it would hurt you if dosed properly. For Nolvadex only PCT it’s 40 mgs a day for two weeks then 20 a day for two weeks. For clomid only PCT it’s 100 mgs a day for two weeks then 50 mgs a day for two weeks. If you combine them and take both you should cut the doses in half. If you act emotional like a pregnant woman during PCT it is most likely the clomid. Some guys react to it and I am one of them so I don’t use it.

For your arimidex dosage, everyone is different. During the dbol period you will need more than the test only period. You are going to have to play with the dosage to figure out what you need. Go look up signs of high and signs of low estrogen in men so you know waht to watch for as you self monitor. I would start at 0.5 mgs twice a week. If you notice water retention or any other side effects of high estrogen then increase to 0.5 EOD. If you take too much arimidex you will tank your estrogen. Your joints will be dry and creaky/pop. You will be extra tired. If that happens wait three to four days then proceed with a lower dose. When you stop taking the dbol you will most likely need less arimidex. Unfortunately there is only one way to know if you are dosing properly and that is blood work. Every guy is different so there is no way for me to say X is the dose you need. Sorry. You just have to play with it. Start low then increase as you think appropriate.

The PCT timing. With your 600mgs a week of test by the end of cycle you will have a built up level. If you pin anything on week 15 then don’t start PCT until Sunday of week 18.

If that provigil is some sort of over the counter PCT herbal based supplement, don’t bother they never work.

I think the winny at the end should not be needed. Especially if you get some Proviron to run during the entire cycle.

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You were right i just mispelled the pro shit lol. Ive really been reading everything your sayin and giving i wanna bulk and cut or recomp my ever evoloving cycle…giving im a trt candidate sounds something like this now

Week 1-12 test e 600mg
1-4. Dbol 30-40mg

Week 12-20 test 100mg eod
15-20 anavar 50mg

Week 1-20 adex .25 eod or every 3rd

Week 21-cruise 150 mg test e

What do you think. I figured i cut bulk cut back to back and get where i wanna be and then cruise on trt. This would be the only time i ever do back to back like that. Figure id be okay to do it once. Anavars expensive. Tren was an idea. Dont know if it would be the better choice over anavar. Cutting cylcles seem more complex than bulking. I didnt even mention clen t3 or epdhrine stack.

I am walking into the gym but I saw this and will respond more later but,…

STAY AWAY FROM TREN!!!

No TREN!!!

I love the stuff but I have numerous cycles under my belt. I had numerous cycles before I ever looked at the stuff. Don’t do it! Tren is steroids on steroids. It is it’s own animal.

As far as Anavar, do you trust your source? Chances are it will actually be either a mix of winny and dbol or dbol and a diuretic.

I take it your switch to 100 mgs test EOD is because you will be doing test prop?

You control weather you gain or cut with diet. It is that simple. You can cut on Deca dbol and a shit tone of test.

If you just do the Proviron during the cycle you will end up nice hard and a much lower body fat if you eat right.

Just test will give you what you want. Test and Proviron will make it much easier to get what you want. Test Proviron and a dbol kicker will just add a few to five pounds over what you would get with just test.

There is no need to reinvent the wheel.

I will comment more later. Like the arimidex.

I have tried the extended cycle with a bulk and cut. It never really works they way you want. Basically and I say this from experience by the time you get to the anavar your body is going to be tired. At best the anavar (if you get actual anavar) will help you get some water weight off. You are really only taking one sloppy gainer and that’s the dbol. The period on the just test after the dbol will “solidify” the gains. If you were doing anadrol with high Deca and test then maybe the six weeks on a dry DHT at the end might help but you aren’t doing that.

Again provided you can get actual anavar the only real place for anavar for the vast majority of us is to bust through a plateau at the end of a cycle. It’s just too expensive for what you get in terms of gains and you are looking for the fat burning part. You will get what you want with test then if you add in Proviron it will be easier, provided you eat right. The eating is key.

Since you are looking at blast and cruise and you want to cut then, do the test, Proviron and dbol kicker. Do it for 12-15 weeks dbol for four or so. You will most likely get more than you wanted or hoped for. Roll into your cruise. Let your body recover. Let the elevated levels of all the things that sky rocket on cycle come down. About three months later do your cut. In the meanwhile diet some, keep up in the gym. You will still be progressing on your cruise. Then in perfect time for swimsuit season do your cut. You can look into oral winny maybe if you are thin enough you could benefit from masteron. Think about it if you do your 20 weeks then by the time you finish and recover you won’t have time to recover and do a Polish for swimsuit season.

I am again going to emphasize that you can get what you want from test along with proper eating. Test with Proviron will make it easier. Add in the dbol kicker and you get a few extra pounds. There is just no reason to drag it out to a 20 week cycle. Pros do that and I don’t think there are anymore than a few on this site. We are not pros.

I always plan my cycles looking ahead in the calendar. I like my girlfriend making excuses to go to the beach or pool. Think about it.

For your arimidex dosage all I can say is you will have to dial it in. The only way to know is through blood work but you can still be on the watch for signs. Look up signs of high and low estrogen for men. If you show signs of high estrogen slightly increase your arimidex dosage then wait about a week to see if the sides go away and stay away. Beyond that it’s on you to figure out. Every UGL is different. Once you find the dosage you are good at then stay at it. Ultimately you need/want the estrogen in the low to mid optimal window.

Proviron huh. I never really see anybody talking about it. But ok you def know your shit. I bought anabolics 11th edition and read all the time on the net. Tren scares me. But everytime i wanna get info on being cut and having a six pack its usually in the equation. As for the anavar l ill pm you. How much proviron would be optimal for me and when? If you lay out the optimal cycle for me ill follow it to the letter. I cant start til december. Maybe mid november. Im anxious. Everything has to be right on every angle and it wont be til then.

I already have dbol and test e. And plenty of it. 300mg/ml test e and 20mg methandrostenolone. The whole source trust thing idk i feel comfortable with them. Ill pm you. Dont wanna break the rules on here. But im glad i talked to you. Im a rookie who reads alot. Lots of bro science out there.

I can’t figure out how to do a p.m.

There is no PM system on this forum. And there’s no discussing sources, brands, distributors, etc.

Figured that

No big deal. I aint gonna get var anyway.

Yeah no pm and no source talk. Plus honestly I probably wouldn’t share my source, I don’t want them to get in trouble because I would have to find a new one.

I have ask, if you dont see much on Proviron why did you have it listed (spelled as provigil) in your original PCT? You should read up on it there is plenty out there. I really think that would be the safest way to assist your goals given all considerations.

The reason you don’t see it as much is because they use to use it as an AI and now we actually have AI’s. It won’t help you gain anything but will keep your gain drier. It will also help keep fat off and help in leaving you harder at the end of your cycle. Typical intelligent entry level doses are 25-50 mgs a day.

As far as me writing out your cycle, not gonna happen. If you miss understand me or I don’t know your entire medical history then you can end up hurting yourself. Plus it can be construed as me encouraging you to possibly do something illegal.

I think with what I understand then your revised plan’s first 12 weeks would make a good run. If you wanted then add in the proviron at 25-50 mgs a day, it will just be a nice addition to help you along a little faster towards your goals.

If you could start at the beginning of November and you already have your mind made up to blast and cruise (at a trt level) then timing could allow three month cruise with a cut cycle starting in May. That gives you time to get a nice bulk/ recomp cycle over the holidays. People put on weight at that time anyways so you can just be putting on lean mass. Then you have three months cruise at TRT which will help you continue to loose fat while toning with small gains here and there as you round out your development. Do some dieting about a month into your cuise. Always eat lean. Then may hits and you can start a cut so you should be looking real sharp by June and you will only improve as you finish the cut. Thats my concept of how you can hit next swimsuit season with you best foot forward.

People tend to be impatient these days. That really works against you in this situation. Going to fast often waists your juice plus it endangers your tendons and cartilage. The tendons and cartilage are not all it endangers but for our age bracket it should be the one we worry about.

I feel the need to elaborate on why I personally don’t want to write out a cycle and I only will comment on one someone has presented.
Back early in my cycle history I had a buddy who had prior experience. We were not cycling together. Infact he had been away from it for a few years. I was into my third cycle I think. We saw each other and seeing my progress peaked his interest. I didn’t realize that he didn’t even bother to understand what compounds did or how to combat side effects. He would just ask someone to tell him what to do. When he asked me what I had done I told him. He didn’t realize I was listing compounds from my first two separate stacks and what I wanted to do in my third stack. He went and got all of that stuff and combined it. Then he read a dumb ass forumn that had a cycle containing two of the things besides the test. So a month into his fuck around he reads this cycle layout and switches the order of what he was taking.
Originally he had what I had listed and was taking the compounds from my first two stacks together. Then since he had asked what I was going to take next I told him what I wanted for my next stack. He thought I meant I was going to go back to back with this stuff and I was not at all.
So he is doing the compounds from my first two stacks together then read the website and switches to what I was going to do my third stack, he doesn’t stop taking the original stuff.

He calls me in a panick. He has gyno. Now he had arimidex but didn’t understand the dosage. He thought one tablet a day, I think he confused it with Proviron because I said arimidex is the older class of AI now that we have the class II aromasin. He ran out and didn’t think anything of it. Two weeks later he has gyno.
He gets mad at me. He wants me to go online and write out what he had done to ask for advice only he can’t even tell me what he did and when what stopped or started. His reasoning for me having to go online for him was he didn’t even know what he was taking and I did. I knew what compounds I had spoken to him about but we never spoke on dosage. He didn’t even tell me he ordered the stuff. In his mind I was responsible because he got confused and didn’t understand what he was combining in his body.

I brought up proviron because it was in a pre made post cycle therapy stack that had that and clomid and nolvadex and cialis along with it.

And no big deal but just to be clear i was only gonna run my source in private to you about the anavar. But i better just keep all that to myself anyway namely for the reasons you mentioned.

Well ill update this when its about go time…thanks alot buddy

Help me hear buddy I’m racking my brains trying to figure out my first fat burning cycle because I have the opportunity to buy anavar right now through another friend by anyway I’m sure than anavar is legit but what I’m asking is is it worth the money to fight do my test and deca I mean d ball cycle and then take a 8-week break and then go into an 8 week cutting cycle with 300 mg test a week as just a little higher than my cruise and 60 to 80 mg of anavar for 8 weeks with the help of clenbuterol and maybe T3 will that be the magic I want I’ve never had a six pack it’s there I’m not fat like that it’s just never been there so I’m looking for that magic should I get the anavar or something cheaper that’ll do it I really confused here I read a million things and people go back and forth about it and I don’t know what do you think