[quote]TrevorLPT wrote:
There’s some solid advice in here if you decide to go this route: https://www.T-Nation.com/training/how-to-stay-strong-when-dieting[/quote]
Good shit mayne. Thanks
The answer is obvious… clean up the diet and keep training to gain strength, but don’t go on an all-out cut.
Why is your bench so weak?
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
The answer is obvious… clean up the diet and keep training to gain strength, but don’t go on an all-out cut.
Why is your bench so weak?[/quote]
Long arms of peace
I know…it pains me too 
#povertybenchofpeace
[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
The answer is obvious… clean up the diet and keep training to gain strength, but don’t go on an all-out cut.
Why is your bench so weak?[/quote]
Long arms of peace
I know…it pains me too
#povertybenchofpeace[/quote]
FWIW, I always struggled with the bench. I didn’t get it above 3 plates before I switch to decline benching for a few months. When I came back to the flat bench it was a whole new world.
[quote]MinotaurXXX wrote:
[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
…everything that you wrote… [/quote]
Solid points, but I’m talking specifically about this issue and thinking of REAL professionals, like that one guy that used to dominate this place. What was his name?
Oh yeah. John Meadows. There are others as well. Those kinds of “better at this than me” people.
Here - https://www.T-Nation.com/diet-fat-loss/bulking-diet-delusion
[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
[quote]MinotaurXXX wrote:
[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
…everything that you wrote… [/quote]
Solid points, but I’m talking specifically about this issue and thinking of REAL professionals, like that one guy that used to dominate this place. What was his name?
Oh yeah. John Meadows. There are others as well. Those kinds of “better at this than me” people.
Here - https://www.T-Nation.com/diet-fat-loss/bulking-diet-delusion[/quote]
The idea that a natural guy who wants to get as big as he can be should NEVER go above 10% or 12% or whatever bodyfat level is ridiculous, I don’t give a fuck WHO says otherwise. Seems like a great idea for guys who sell training programs though… convince the noobs that they are doing it wrong if they ever lose sight of their abs - so that they never gain any fucking muscle - so they hire trainers. lol
You might like what John Berardi did with Dave Tate, in Dave’s quest to improve/maintain strength and health while dropping fat. At minimum, it can give you some ideas on how to approach your situation.
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
[quote]MinotaurXXX wrote:
[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
…everything that you wrote… [/quote]
Solid points, but I’m talking specifically about this issue and thinking of REAL professionals, like that one guy that used to dominate this place. What was his name?
Oh yeah. John Meadows. There are others as well. Those kinds of “better at this than me” people.
Here - https://www.T-Nation.com/diet-fat-loss/bulking-diet-delusion[/quote]
The idea that a natural guy who wants to get as big as he can be should NEVER go above 10% or 12% or whatever bodyfat level is ridiculous, I don’t give a fuck WHO says otherwise. Seems like a great idea for guys who sell training programs though… convince the noobs that they are doing it wrong if they ever lose sight of their abs - so that they never gain any fucking muscle - so they hire trainers. lol
[/quote]
?
Where did the original posts go lol
You sure MinotaurXXX was the one who linked the article?
https://www.T-Nation.com/diet-fat-loss/bulking-diet-delusion
Anyway, this is the 1st time I have read this article in depth.
Half of the arguments presented are based on symptoms likely to occur when someone is obese or morbidly obese. The other half are based on what usually occurs when dieting to extremely low levels of bodyfat OR when losing a shitload of bodyfat in a short amount of time, which would mean the person would have had to have started out obese in the first place. Some of the conditions described have not even had their alleged causative factors proven. How does any of it support not going above 10-12% bodyfat?
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
[quote]MinotaurXXX wrote:
[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
…everything that you wrote… [/quote]
Solid points, but I’m talking specifically about this issue and thinking of REAL professionals, like that one guy that used to dominate this place. What was his name?
Oh yeah. John Meadows. There are others as well. Those kinds of “better at this than me” people.
Here - https://www.T-Nation.com/diet-fat-loss/bulking-diet-delusion[/quote]
The idea that a natural guy who wants to get as big as he can be should NEVER go above 10% or 12% or whatever bodyfat level is ridiculous, I don’t give a fuck WHO says otherwise. Seems like a great idea for guys who sell training programs though… convince the noobs that they are doing it wrong if they ever lose sight of their abs - so that they never gain any fucking muscle - so they hire trainers. lol
[/quote]
[/quote]
I did quite well naturally never going above that bodyfat range. I think that’s largely genetic though. Some folks, like me, are able to continually make strong progress while never losing sight of their abs. It may not work for everyone, but it certainly CAN work. FWIW, I’ve never been able to lose sight of my abs, no matter how I eat. I honestly don’t know what I would have to do, other than intentionally eating as shitty as I can possibly stomach, to get fat. And I don’t really know how that would end up either.
Brother I would dirty bulk to 2 bills and hit your strength goals.
You are a powerlifter. Own it.
[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Brother I would dirty bulk to 2 bills and hit your strength goals.
You are a powerlifter. Own it. [/quote]
You should probably stick to the PWI and GAL threads. This advise makes absolutely no sense, given the OP’s stated goals. And your knowledge of what it actually takes to be a good powerlifter is clearly minimal if you think adding bodyfat via ‘dirty bulking’ is a good idea for someone competing under 200 lbs.
Obviously if someone can stay lean and gain well that’s great for them. There have been several such people posting here in the past (kingbeef, waylander for example). We aren’t all so lucky in our genetics, so some of us have had to accept higher bodyfat percentages while building that initial base of strength and size.
As long as you don’t get stuck in permabulker mode you’ll be fine. I don’t like it when these gurus toss out random numbers like that… 10%, 12%, 15%. Nothing against Meadows in particular, I’ve picked up a lot of useful info from his articles. I’d just hate to see some 20 year old dude read that, then severely hamper his progress by cutting down every time he loses sight of his abs.
While I don’t necessarily think you need to freak out when you lose sight of your abs, could someone please tell me what the advantage of being as fat as the OP is?
Shadowbob, are you still doing stuff like Madcow for your training?
[quote]Yogi wrote:
While I don’t necessarily think you need to freak out when you lose sight of your abs, could someone please tell me what the advantage of being as fat as the OP is?[/quote]
The advantage to not going on an all out cut right now is more time spent getting progressively stronger and gaining muscle while there are still gains to be had. There is no “advantage” to carrying extra bodyfat, the question is what’s the best thing to do in the OP’s current situation. I say he can clean up the diet and lean out a bit while continuing to gain strength and size. Dieting down to contest shape right now is, overall, a mistake.
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
[quote]Yogi wrote:
While I don’t necessarily think you need to freak out when you lose sight of your abs, could someone please tell me what the advantage of being as fat as the OP is?[/quote]
The advantage to not going on an all out cut right now is more time spent getting progressively stronger and gaining muscle while there are still gains to be had. There is no “advantage” to carrying extra bodyfat, the question is what’s the best thing to do in the OP’s current situation. I say he can clean up the diet and lean out a bit while continuing to gain strength and size. Dieting down to contest shape right now is, overall, a mistake. [/quote]
I didn’t realise that contest condition was even being considered.
Loss of strength on a cut comes back almost immediately, and fears of losing muscle are totally overblown if you’re smart.
OP, you’re too fat. Cut down a bit.
10% is a nice ball park figure of when may begin experiencing any performance degredation
15% is a nice ball park figure of when you begin to get diminishing returns on your mass and start to push the ratio of added fat:muscle.
So, slowly add weight until you get to 15% body fat
Then more aggressively (still slowly) drop body fat until you get to 10%
Tweak the parameters as you see fit.
That will allow you to maximise the time you spend in a caloric surplus and to compete in a weight class where you’ve maximised your muscle mass relative to your bodyweight. That should give you the best outcome strength wise (assuming you’ve peaked correctly).
If you’re blessed like flip and tend to add lean mass, then get fucked, no one likes you 
Have at it man, go get as fat as you fucking want. I’m obviously just here to try and sell you something.
Answer to OP: BULK.
[quote]Yogi wrote:
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
[quote]Yogi wrote:
While I don’t necessarily think you need to freak out when you lose sight of your abs, could someone please tell me what the advantage of being as fat as the OP is?[/quote]
The advantage to not going on an all out cut right now is more time spent getting progressively stronger and gaining muscle while there are still gains to be had. There is no “advantage” to carrying extra bodyfat, the question is what’s the best thing to do in the OP’s current situation. I say he can clean up the diet and lean out a bit while continuing to gain strength and size. Dieting down to contest shape right now is, overall, a mistake. [/quote]
I didn’t realise that contest condition was even being considered.
Loss of strength on a cut comes back almost immediately, and fears of losing muscle are totally overblown if you’re smart.
OP, you’re too fat. Cut down a bit.[/quote]
As far as I’m aware, Quick Ben was the first to bring up contest condition. Unless 10% now means stage ready.