T Nation

Bulk or Cut?

Thanks rainjack.
I won’t take every piece of advice “AS IT IS” coming from momboto, intransit, rb etc.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
UkpairehMombooto wrote:
You have NO idea how to train. Trim down to around 12-15% bodyfat and start up again.

There is no need to do this. In fact, it’s counter productive.

Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest.

Unless you are morbidly obese, there is no reason to go backwards, and lose the gains you have already made, just to get to some non-existent starting point.

You add 15 pounds of muscle, and you will not look so soft. [/quote]

[quote]rainjack wrote:
UkpairehMombooto wrote:
You have NO idea how to train. Trim down to around 12-15% bodyfat and start up again.

There is no need to do this. In fact, it’s counter productive.

Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest.

Unless you are morbidly obese, there is no reason to go backwards, and lose the gains you have already made, just to get to some non-existent starting point.

You add 15 pounds of muscle, and you will not look so soft. [/quote]

Agreed.

Also, I’ve seen 2 references to mobooto (sp) in this thread, but I don’t see any replies… is this in reference to anothe thread or was it deleted?

When someone struggles to squat 135 ATG for 1 rep, has stopped squatting entirely and can;t deadlift 225 (at a bw of 175) off the ground, and can;t press the 70’s on a flat bench after a year and a half of “bulking up” with a “solid” training program, something is going wrong imo.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
There is no need to do this. In fact, it’s counter productive.

Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest.

Unless you are morbidly obese, there is no reason to go backwards, and lose the gains you have already made, just to get to some non-existent starting point.

You add 15 pounds of muscle, and you will not look so soft. [/quote]

[quote]rbpowerhouse wrote:
When someone struggles to squat 135 ATG for 1 rep, has stopped squatting entirely and can;t deadlift 225 (at a bw of 175) off the ground, and can;t press the 70’s on a flat bench after a year and a half of “bulking up” with a “solid” training program, something is going wrong imo.

[/quote]

Well telling him to cut is no answer. What the hell is he going to benefit by cutting?

You are giving me lift numbers. That has dick to do with BF%.

You seem to be suggesting that he get weaker so that he can get stronger.

Think about what you said, and the implications of cutting. You will see you make very little sense.

Again, I’m with RJ.

It may not be a bad program per se, more sounds like a problem of lack of intensity (I suffered from that for way too long and my lift #s showed it), there wasn’t anything inherently wrong with my routine however.

First thing I thought was, “this guys not training hard.” You don’t need big numbers to train hard, but you do need big intensity. Push yourself in the gym. It’s fun.

this is just to set the record straight.
i am able to do the following:
65lb dumbell press: 3x8
225 deadlift: 5X5
squats: i gave up, reason mentioned previously

[quote]rainjack wrote:
rbpowerhouse wrote:
When someone struggles to squat 135 ATG for 1 rep, has stopped squatting entirely and can;t deadlift 225 (at a bw of 175) off the ground, and can;t press the 70’s on a flat bench after a year and a half of “bulking up” with a “solid” training program, something is going wrong imo.

Well telling him to cut is no answer. What the hell is he going to benefit by cutting?

You are giving me lift numbers. That has dick to do with BF%.

You seem to be suggesting that he get weaker so that he can get stronger.

Think about what you said, and the implications of cutting. You will see you make very little sense.

[/quote]

This was his previous thread.

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1903333&pageNo=0#1904192

This guy works out at my gym and was a good friend of mine for 2 years. I know his approach to “bulking up”. With his mindset and lack of knowledge (of diet and nutrition) bulking up will only add to the adiposity at this point.

You assume that he will adopt a program, completely alter his eating patterns and suddenly lift “with intensity”. Knowing the guy, I;m afraid that will not happen.

I have nothing against adding mass at higher bodyfat, I myself am close to 190 pounds at 20% (5’7") at this point but continuing to add mass since I want to break the 200 barrier before I cut down. But it takes every ounce of determination to push the weights up without sacrificing form from session to session. I feel that a person should have the right mindset and discipline before embarking on a “bulk”.

He refuses to squat because he feels he is not designed to squat. Did you read through that portion? Lift numbers after 1 year are a good indicator of the lifting intensity a person can generate imo. When youre lifting the same weights a year and a half from when you started, why do you expect its suddenly going to change from this point?

And a 3x8 with 65 pound DBs is not the same as a restpaused set of 5-3-2-1 with 65pound dumbbells with half ROM.

You obviously are more knowledgeable than I am so I will not argue with you though.
This guy is deceiving himself as well as you guys, and I’m exiting this thread. I have enough on my plate trying to control my gut from growing while gaining size and strength.
I know what this guy is going to look like a year from now, so I just need to wait and laugh.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
rbpowerhouse wrote:
When someone struggles to squat 135 ATG for 1 rep, has stopped squatting entirely and can;t deadlift 225 (at a bw of 175) off the ground, and can;t press the 70’s on a flat bench after a year and a half of “bulking up” with a “solid” training program, something is going wrong imo.

Well telling him to cut is no answer. What the hell is he going to benefit by cutting?

You are giving me lift numbers. That has dick to do with BF%.

You seem to be suggesting that he get weaker so that he can get stronger.

Think about what you said, and the implications of cutting. You will see you make very little sense.

[/quote]

momboto, intransit, rb are all same…

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
rainjack wrote:
UkpairehMombooto wrote:
You have NO idea how to train. Trim down to around 12-15% bodyfat and start up again.

There is no need to do this. In fact, it’s counter productive.

Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest.

Unless you are morbidly obese, there is no reason to go backwards, and lose the gains you have already made, just to get to some non-existent starting point.

You add 15 pounds of muscle, and you will not look so soft.

Agreed.

Also, I’ve seen 2 references to mobooto (sp) in this thread, but I don’t see any replies… is this in reference to anothe thread or was it deleted?
[/quote]

To avoid any personal attacks:
Please i want momboto,rb,intransit out of this thread.

[quote]rbpowerhouse wrote:
This was his previous thread.

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1903333&pageNo=0#1904192

This guy works out at my gym and was a good friend of mine for 2 years. I know his approach to “bulking up”. With his mindset and lack of knowledge (of diet and nutrition) bulking up will only add to the adiposity at this point.

You assume that he will adopt a program, completely alter his eating patterns and suddenly lift “with intensity”. Knowing the guy, I;m afraid that will not happen.

I have nothing against adding mass at higher bodyfat, I myself am close to 190 pounds at 20% (5’7") at this point but continuing to add mass since I want to break the 200 barrier before I cut down. But it takes every ounce of determination to push the weights up without sacrificing form from session to session. I feel that a person should have the right mindset and discipline before embarking on a “bulk”.

He refuses to squat because he feels he is not designed to squat. Did you read through that portion? Lift numbers after 1 year are a good indicator of the lifting intensity a person can generate imo. When youre lifting the same weights a year and a half from when you started, why do you expect its suddenly going to change from this point?

And a 3x8 with 65 pound DBs is not the same as a restpaused set of 5-3-2-1 with 65pound dumbbells with half ROM.

You obviously are more knowledgeable than I am so I will not argue with you though.
This guy is deceiving himself as well as you guys, and I’m exiting this thread. I have enough on my plate trying to control my gut from growing while gaining size and strength.
I know what this guy is going to look like a year from now, so I just need to wait and laugh.

rainjack wrote:
rbpowerhouse wrote:
When someone struggles to squat 135 ATG for 1 rep, has stopped squatting entirely and can;t deadlift 225 (at a bw of 175) off the ground, and can;t press the 70’s on a flat bench after a year and a half of “bulking up” with a “solid” training program, something is going wrong imo.

Well telling him to cut is no answer. What the hell is he going to benefit by cutting?

You are giving me lift numbers. That has dick to do with BF%.

You seem to be suggesting that he get weaker so that he can get stronger.

Think about what you said, and the implications of cutting. You will see you make very little sense.

[/quote]

Very very funny. Do check the posting history of all the entities you listed. I have my photographs and have been a frequent posting member here since late 2006 for whoever’s interested. Feel free to check my profile and logs.

Delusions apart, take the advice to heed, Ankur. YOu have much to gain.

To everyone else including RJ, this thread is a troll job as you may have guessed. The OP is here to have some fun with all of you and has a bunch of freinds huddled together in his office at Penn State laughing at the computer screen and the responses right now, particularly those by RJ and myself. I myself am in the same building and know this guy

[quote]saral wrote:
momboto, intransit, rb are all same…

jehovasfitness wrote:
rainjack wrote:
UkpairehMombooto wrote:
You have NO idea how to train. Trim down to around 12-15% bodyfat and start up again.

There is no need to do this. In fact, it’s counter productive.

Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest.

Unless you are morbidly obese, there is no reason to go backwards, and lose the gains you have already made, just to get to some non-existent starting point.

You add 15 pounds of muscle, and you will not look so soft.

Agreed.

Also, I’ve seen 2 references to mobooto (sp) in this thread, but I don’t see any replies… is this in reference to anothe thread or was it deleted?

[/quote]

[quote]rbpowerhouse wrote:
Very very funny. Do check the posting history of all the entities you listed. I have my photographs and have been a frequent posting member here since late 2006 for whoever’s interested. Feel free to check my profile and logs.

Delusions apart, take the advice to heed, Ankur. YOu have much to gain.

To everyone else including RJ, [b]this thread is a troll job as you may have guessed. The OP is here to have some fun with all of you and has a bunch of freinds huddled together laughing at the screen and the responses right now[b]

saral wrote:
momboto, intransit, rb are all same…

jehovasfitness wrote:
rainjack wrote:
UkpairehMombooto wrote:
You have NO idea how to train. Trim down to around 12-15% bodyfat and start up again.

There is no need to do this. In fact, it’s counter productive.

Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest.

Unless you are morbidly obese, there is no reason to go backwards, and lose the gains you have already made, just to get to some non-existent starting point.

You add 15 pounds of muscle, and you will not look so soft.

Agreed.

Also, I’ve seen 2 references to mobooto (sp) in this thread, but I don’t see any replies… is this in reference to anothe thread or was it deleted?

[/quote]

I kind of thought so after seeing he posted from a different account originally. My advice was blatantly ignored as well.

Also, I see NO personal attacks. The OP came for advice. The advice is learn to train and eat right or don’t do it at all.

Don;t get me wrong. This kid lifts weights and is smart and intelligent and driven. He used to be my close friend for a long time. But his presence on T-Nation is largely a trolljob.
NOW I;m sure he’ll say you and I are the same guy.

[quote]gabex wrote:
rbpowerhouse wrote:
Very very funny. Do check the posting history of all the entities you listed. I have my photographs and have been a frequent posting member here since late 2006 for whoever’s interested. Feel free to check my profile and logs.

Delusions apart, take the advice to heed, Ankur. YOu have much to gain.

To everyone else including RJ, [b]this thread is a troll job as you may have guessed. The OP is here to have some fun with all of you and has a bunch of freinds huddled together laughing at the screen and the responses right now[b]

saral wrote:
momboto, intransit, rb are all same…

jehovasfitness wrote:
rainjack wrote:
UkpairehMombooto wrote:
You have NO idea how to train. Trim down to around 12-15% bodyfat and start up again.

There is no need to do this. In fact, it’s counter productive.

Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest.

Unless you are morbidly obese, there is no reason to go backwards, and lose the gains you have already made, just to get to some non-existent starting point.

You add 15 pounds of muscle, and you will not look so soft.

Agreed.

Also, I’ve seen 2 references to mobooto (sp) in this thread, but I don’t see any replies… is this in reference to anothe thread or was it deleted?

I kind of thought so after seeing he posted from a different account originally. My advice was blatantly ignored as well.
[/quote]

[quote]rbpowerhouse wrote:
Don;t get me wrong. This kid lifts weights and is smart and intelligent and driven. He used to be my close friend for a long time. But his presence on T-Nation is largely a trolljob.
NOW I;m sure he’ll say you and I are the same guy.

gabex wrote:
rbpowerhouse wrote:
Very very funny. Do check the posting history of all the entities you listed. I have my photographs and have been a frequent posting member here since late 2006 for whoever’s interested. Feel free to check my profile and logs.

Delusions apart, take the advice to heed, Ankur. YOu have much to gain.

To everyone else including RJ, [b]this thread is a troll job as you may have guessed. The OP is here to have some fun with all of you and has a bunch of freinds huddled together laughing at the screen and the responses right now[b]

saral wrote:
momboto, intransit, rb are all same…

jehovasfitness wrote:
rainjack wrote:
UkpairehMombooto wrote:
You have NO idea how to train. Trim down to around 12-15% bodyfat and start up again.

There is no need to do this. In fact, it’s counter productive.

Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest.

Unless you are morbidly obese, there is no reason to go backwards, and lose the gains you have already made, just to get to some non-existent starting point.

You add 15 pounds of muscle, and you will not look so soft.

Agreed.

Also, I’ve seen 2 references to mobooto (sp) in this thread, but I don’t see any replies… is this in reference to anothe thread or was it deleted?

I kind of thought so after seeing he posted from a different account originally. My advice was blatantly ignored as well.

[/quote]

No way, I’ve bought way more Spike Shooters than you. (User Level) lol

[quote]rainjack wrote:
UkpairehMombooto wrote:
You have NO idea how to train. Trim down to around 12-15% bodyfat and start up again.

There is no need to do this. In fact, it’s counter productive.

Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest.

Unless you are morbidly obese, there is no reason to go backwards, and lose the gains you have already made, just to get to some non-existent starting point.

You add 15 pounds of muscle, and you will not look so soft. [/quote]

I agree. No need to start over etc. “Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest”. No need to go beyond those three steps for now.

Dang. How much Spike do you drink, o alter ego of mine?

[quote]gabex wrote:
rbpowerhouse wrote:
Don;t get me wrong. This kid lifts weights and is smart and intelligent and driven. He used to be my close friend for a long time. But his presence on T-Nation is largely a trolljob.
NOW I;m sure he’ll say you and I are the same guy.

gabex wrote:
rbpowerhouse wrote:
Very very funny. Do check the posting history of all the entities you listed. I have my photographs and have been a frequent posting member here since late 2006 for whoever’s interested. Feel free to check my profile and logs.

Delusions apart, take the advice to heed, Ankur. YOu have much to gain.

To everyone else including RJ, [b]this thread is a troll job as you may have guessed. The OP is here to have some fun with all of you and has a bunch of freinds huddled together laughing at the screen and the responses right now[b]

saral wrote:
momboto, intransit, rb are all same…

jehovasfitness wrote:
rainjack wrote:
UkpairehMombooto wrote:
You have NO idea how to train. Trim down to around 12-15% bodyfat and start up again.

There is no need to do this. In fact, it’s counter productive.

Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest.

Unless you are morbidly obese, there is no reason to go backwards, and lose the gains you have already made, just to get to some non-existent starting point.

You add 15 pounds of muscle, and you will not look so soft.

Agreed.

Also, I’ve seen 2 references to mobooto (sp) in this thread, but I don’t see any replies… is this in reference to anothe thread or was it deleted?

I kind of thought so after seeing he posted from a different account originally. My advice was blatantly ignored as well.

No way, I’ve bought way more Spike Shooters than you. (User Level) lol

[/quote]

Dude, its a troll thread.

[quote]chriscarani wrote:
rainjack wrote:
UkpairehMombooto wrote:
You have NO idea how to train. Trim down to around 12-15% bodyfat and start up again.

There is no need to do this. In fact, it’s counter productive.

Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest.

Unless you are morbidly obese, there is no reason to go backwards, and lose the gains you have already made, just to get to some non-existent starting point.

You add 15 pounds of muscle, and you will not look so soft.

I agree. No need to start over etc. “Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest”. No need to go beyond those three steps for now.

[/quote]

[quote]rbpowerhouse wrote:
Dude, its a troll thread.

chriscarani wrote:
rainjack wrote:
UkpairehMombooto wrote:
You have NO idea how to train. Trim down to around 12-15% bodyfat and start up again.

There is no need to do this. In fact, it’s counter productive.

Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest.

Unless you are morbidly obese, there is no reason to go backwards, and lose the gains you have already made, just to get to some non-existent starting point.

You add 15 pounds of muscle, and you will not look so soft.

I agree. No need to start over etc. “Just start eating cleaner, training harder, and getting good rest”. No need to go beyond those three steps for now.

[/quote]

Ahh…stopped reading after that guys post.


:smiley: