T Nation

Bulk or Cut? Need some advice on where to go from here!

Hey guys, longtime lurker, first time poster. Love the mag, and the supplements are top notch. Anyway, I have been bulking up for a while now (began at 120, a skinny little B*TCH!) Now, i’ve bulked to about 165 through massive eating and a good diet. Currently using glutamine, ZMA, and low carb grow, with surge pwo. Workout 5 days a week doing low to medium rep, higher weights. Anyway, was wondering where I should go from here, from some fellow t-men. I’m 5’10", been lifting for about 2 years, and am unsure of BF (having it checked on monday!) Waist = 34", btw. Sorry about the poor quality of the pics, btw.

if you’re 5’10" and 165 pounds do you really have to ask this question or do you already know the answer and just wanna hear it?

What are your goals? Skinny and ripped? I remember being in your position. I’m 5’10ish" and at the time I contemplated this I was 160. I decided I wanted to see my abs. I got down to 8% BF and started to see abs. Only problem, I weighed 144. Lost way too much muscle mass and decided to bulk until I hit 180. Well I just hit 180 @ 13% BF and I’m gonna keep bulking until I hit 200 or 16% BF. Then I’ll cut. Figure out what you want and then go for it. You’re at the best place for diets and workouts so take advantage. Peace.

Keep your food sources clean and keep on bulking…my humble little opinion.

You need a lot more mass, but then again…I like 'em big! ;o)

Losing fat is the easy part.

you don’t look like you train in the low rep range from the way your body looks like. no offense, just my observation. are you benching 200lbs, squating 250, deadlifting 250lbs yet at your bodyweight? have your weights in your lifts consistantly been going up. You definitely need to loose fat and put on muscle. try changing up your routine every 4-6 weeks. laters pk

Only thing you should be cutting is that back and shoulder hair.

what prog are doing, whats your diet like?
with out knowing anything about the above i would blindly say give OVT and Massive Eating a go (and sort out your naaasty posture)

Know I need to bulk. Gonna start using massive eating. How many cals should I aim for? BTW, any idea what bf % i might be, and what program would be good to begin? OVT?

Are you serious??? If you want your body fat get it tested with calipers, there is no way we can tell…also massive eating tells you how many Calories to consume in part 1

Ovt would be good, the leg day will kill you…

hey ransomed, whats up? i’ve been doing this whole working out thing for 11 years or so and might be able to help… if you are fairly serious about gaining muscle without fat, you need to find your bodyfat percentage and start crunching numbers. get yourself a pair of Accu-measure bodyfat calipers and follow the instructions in the kit. Your pictures suggest 15-20 percent??? hard to tell without site measurements. Anyways, once you get that done you will know how much muscle and how much fat you have. Say you’re at 20 percent, then at 160 you got 32 pounds of fat and 128 pounds of muscle. Say you want to gain 12 pounds of muscle. one pound is 454 grams of muscle protein. 454g X 4 calories per gram is about 1800 calories in a pound of beef. You’ll have to eveluate your own rate of packing muscle on your body- everyone is different and whatever supplements or steroids you choose to take will increase this rate as well, as long as you’re nutrition bases are covered. So think back to what progress you have made so far and figure out about how much muscle you can pack on each week. Say for shits and giggles you estimate you can gain 1 pound of muscle per week. That means you will have to eat 1800 calories per week MORE than what you burn every day, including you’re TEA (thermic effect of activity), TEE (thermic effect of exercise) and TEF (thermic effect of food) These are all explained here:

Calculate the calories you burn each day accurately the way Lonnie describes in that article, then add 1800/7=257 calories more to that each day. Remember you will be eating more on your workout days than your off days obviously because each day must be calculated individually on its own. This is easy once you get the hang of it. Do your massive eating thing, calculate your calories like above, and give it 2 weeks before you assess your fat levels and bodyweight again. You should see results and can adjust calories up or down from there. Remember to recalculate your daily calorie expenditure for every 5 pounds you gain. What I’m telling you is the method I use to build muscle with minimal fat gain and even fat loss. But if you don’t have the patience to do this, you will put on unnecessary fat for sure. The more accurate you can be, the more accurate your results will be! If you have any questions feel free to ask and i can elaborate. Good Luck!

oh, i forgot about the intracellular fat in muscle tissue as well, which would up the amount of calories in a pound of muscle… oh well, you get the gist anyways…

I remember going down this same path. The good thing is you are in the right place, everything you need is here including support. I personally would diet a little then concentrate on bulking, you will probably add too much fat and have a poor muscle to fat gain ratio if you bulk when you have too much fat on you. so diet for a while then when you lower body fat and bulk you will be adding almost all muscle!
assuming you eat clean.

Your before and after photos don’t show much difference. I can’t see where the extra 45 lbs are, unless it’s all in the legs. I don’t think you need to be taking all those supplements at this point, you are wasting your money. You need to develop much more of a base. To be honest with you, you say you’ve been training for 2 years but from your photos it looks as if you’ve been doing nothing. I’m not being nasty, just trying to set it down straight. I would use the funds your spending on supplements and substitute it for some good personal training from a trainer who has a good rep with developing bodybuilders.

Iron Maiden,

I gotta love this statement.

Just to many ppl out there yoyoing all the time. They gain ten lbs, five of which is muscle, and they think they gotta cut down. So they cut and lose 9 lbs four of which is muscle. Thats a lot of damn work for a lb of muscle.

You simply need to bulk more than a couple of weeks to make good gains, and you have to carry a reasonable amount of fat also. Just dont let it get out of hand. You cant expect to follow massive eating guidlines for months on end. Hit the gym extra freaking hard (two a days and such) for a few weeks and eat massive, then drop it down a little, go for a slower bulk for a while and cycle in the massive eating/training stages every now and then.

Bulk because you want to, cut when you have/need to.

just my 2 cc,