smells like burt flesh in here.
Man, it never ends.
Ok, neptune. No one here is going to give you advice on how to only “bulk” your arms and chest and whatever else is that it is a bad idea. Personally I don’t think anyone has any interest in making T-Nation a place where bad advice is handed out.
To give an example, it’s like asking a police officer where you can go and score some drugs. Sure, the cop might know where to get them but he sure as hell wont tell you.
-Fireplug
jsbrook, I agree with you completely.
Some of the posts offered only go to further strengthe the opinion that most BBers are smug, conceited assholes. Even with “tough love” you would expect to break somebody down and then build their confidence back up.
This rarely happens here.
Prof, whilst some individuals may pm you and thank you for your harsh advice, what percentage of those you flame disappear from the site altogether, never to lift a weight again?
It is not only the ones who are bothering with that will find this information for themselves. Not everyone knows that training with weights is for them. For some it takes a few months of training and some visable results before the bug sets in.
Also, some young people need nurturing. It may sound a bit gay (not that there’s anything wrong, blah blah blah), but a role model who offers CONSTRUCTIVE advice could really help to develop a passion for the iron sports, in this, or other individuals.
Sorry for my very badly put together response Prof!
Wheels
If somebody is such a pussy that they are scared off from lifting weights by a few harsh words from people they don’t even know, I doubt they would stick with lifting long enough to break a sweat. Seriously, are our self-esteems so low that a few words on an internet forum will send us crying to our mothers?
When I got to college, all my previous lifting experience was the typical high school routine and my diet was shit- and lifting wasn’t doing anything for me. The first day I stepped into the varsity weight room and started doing bicep curls and chest flys my strength coach stopped me and basically called me a dumbass and told me what I needed to be doing. Somehow I found the logic in my brain to realize that he knew better than me and I came down the next day and started doing things right.
If being yelled at on the internet is enough to make someone quit lifting. They are not T-Nation material.
Let them find Men’s Health.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
I’m all for horsing around. But plenty of these 'snap some sense into posts; have no useful information. This site has a wealth of resources. At least reference a damn article that could be helpful along with the bashing. Being so ‘frank and blunt’ that posters think you’re an asshole and never end up utilizing the many resources to learn how to train properly may be fun or funny but it doesn’t change anyone’s approach.
This is false. It very often does. What you don’t see are these same guys come back and PM things like, I originally thought you were just being a smartass, but could you help me with… Your opinion is quite in the dark about the psychology of these guys. You don’t walk up to the avid curler in the gym and say, “hey, have you ever considered training your back because it is useful to have balance and blah blah blah”. They will shut you out immediately because it isn’t what they want to hear. You seem to not understand this.
Tell me, do you think he is following your advice now? He has seen the light? He is now doing deadlifts tonight? Bullshit. Most people in this world will simply be the ones who take up space in the gym…if they even go regularly. Those who are willing to work hard for years are few and far between. You have actually deluded yourself into believing they are all being run away.
Common sense should tell you that ones worth the effort would not run. You don’t get into someone’s head who has already formed an opinion and make abrupt changes through your approach. All you would end up with is thousands of one question, one answer threads where the guy who asked the question never returns to post a reply. This would become the bodybuilding Dear Abby. Excuse me if I don’t jump for joy at this idea.
So, let’s do this. You worry about you and let everyone else worry about them. That way, everyone is happy and you can pretend that you are saving all of the poor defenseless posters who have been injured by mean old posts. Good luck.
Oh, and this guy got advice. I guarantee that he paid attention even if he didn’t like it.
[/quote]
Dude, I don’t doubt that some people respond to it and PM you. But how many of those who actually make those kind of posts? The majority? Less than half? A few? My point is this. I love T-Nation, but I don’t think it’s very beginner friendly.
There are other training sites on the internet, many of them much nicer to beginners. I see many people from all backgrounds just getting into training get treated in ways that actually lead them to embrace it. Many of them go on to train at all different levels, some taking it to pretty high ones.
I think you are also coming in with preconceived conceptions that you don’t want to test for whatever reason. I think that as a website we could appreciate people coming from different backgrounds and mentalities without losing our ‘hardcoreness’ and what makes T-Nation so great.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
If somebody is such a pussy that they are scared off from lifting weights by a few harsh words from people they don’t even know, I doubt they would stick with lifting long enough to break a sweat. Seriously, are our self-esteems so low that a few words on an internet forum will send us crying to our mothers?
When I got to college, all my previous lifting experience was the typical high school routine and my diet was shit- and lifting wasn’t doing anything for me. The first day I stepped into the varsity weight room and started doing bicep curls and chest flys my strength coach stopped me and basically called me a dumbass and told me what I needed to be doing. Somehow I found the logic in my brain to realize that he knew better than me and I came down the next day and started doing things right.[/quote]
Yes. They would be a pussy to give up weightlifting because of some words on an internet messageboard. But maybe not to blow off a website that doesn’t seem to be giving them anything but criticism, not very constructive at that either.
Unnecessary in a website like T-Nation with tons of resources, many easily pointed out just by referencing Vroom’s Beginner thread and a couple Berardi articles.
C’mon, it’s the Internet.
If the guy is embarrassed, he can register a new name and post again once he has read up on the information.
I mean, how many activities in life don’t make you pay a dues? Maybe it is good that people learn to look before opening their mouths.
For a site that is driving everyone away because of the big mean forumites, there are an awful lot of readers around here…
I do think it’s a good idea at least to point to the information though… some people are willing to read and learn and all that.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Oh, and this guy got advice. I guarantee that he paid attention even if he didn’t like it.
[/quote]
Are you referring to your initial post? I suppose there was the small tidbit that he needs to work full body buried in the half a page of sarcasm. Nothing really about why he’s a dumbass just to work chest and arms. No mention of any articles here that would address proper training and nutrition.
I respect that smacking some sense into people can help in the longrun. But that’s not enough. I suppose that you could fairly say it’s not your responsibility. But why is it your responsiblity to shoot them down in the first place when at least as many who PM you say fuck this site and leave and don’t benefit from anything here?
Sure, other posters may will in the blanks. But I bet many of those beginners are already gone before they get a chance to. It’s obviously a free country and a free site and you can post what you want, and I think you’re posts have some good aspects.
But they wouldn’t bother me one bit if after (often quite legitimately) you finished telling the schmucks how stupid and misguided they are as far as training and nutrition, you metnioned an article or two here that would point them in the right direction. And I think they’d be a lot better for it
[quote]sugarfree wrote:
jsbrook
I do agree that after a smack down. A link to some help should be given.[/quote]
Right. That’s really all I’m saying. I have no problem with rough posts. But a thread shouldn’t go on for 3 pages of clones of Prof. X’s post before someone actually either gives specific advice of their own or references the excellent training articles here, going beyond the vague generality, “Eat big and lift hard.”
[quote]vroom wrote:
I do think it’s a good idea at least to point to the information though… some people are willing to read and learn and all that.[/quote]
Yeah.
jsbrook,
I get what you’re saying. I guess being involved in athletics has given me some more resources and stuff- plus I had the benefit of a strength coach to help me get started and point me in the right direction.
However, I’m pretty active on a couple different message boards on a couple different topics and you see this shit all the time- people just sign up and post dumb shit right off the bat. There will always be those people and most of them will never learn. The smart ones know to keep their mouth shut until they learn at least a litle bit about training.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
jsbrook,
I get what you’re saying. I guess being involved in athletics has given me some more resources and stuff- plus I had the benefit of a strength coach to help me get started and point me in the right direction.
However, I’m pretty active on a couple different message boards on a couple different topics and you see this shit all the time- people just sign up and post dumb shit right off the bat. There will always be those people and most of them will never learn. The smart ones know to keep their mouth shut until they learn at least a litle bit about training.[/quote]
Very good point. Regardless of whether some accept it or not, the goal shouldn’t even be to coddle those who aren’t really that serious and more than likely won’t stick with this 2 weeks after spring break is over.
Anyone truly worth the effort would A) not be so easily offended by any of the comments made in this thread and B) would be more likely to actually read other posts on this forum before they ever posted a question in the first place.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
But they wouldn’t bother me one bit if after (often quite legitimately) you finished telling the schmucks how stupid and misguided they are as far as training and nutrition, you metnioned an article or two here that would point them in the right direction. And I think they’d be a lot better for it[/quote]
Why would I mention an “article or two” if I don’t even read most of the articles on this site?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
But they wouldn’t bother me one bit if after (often quite legitimately) you finished telling the schmucks how stupid and misguided they are as far as training and nutrition, you metnioned an article or two here that would point them in the right direction. And I think they’d be a lot better for it
Why would I mention an “article or two” if I don’t even read most of the articles on this site?
[/quote]
That’s fine. You have been training for years. But obviously most of those posters dumb enough to make those posts are also dumb enough or at least naive and ignorant enough to know nothing about proper training and nutrition.
What do you aim to accomplish by your posts? Knock some sense into a few who are still left floundering because a thread goes on for three pages of posters taking your lead without giving actual training and nutrition advice?
Like you said, some PM you and try to learn on their own. Many more probably just leave the site and never come back and continue of training and eating in their misguided way or seek info from inferior places.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
jsbrook,
I get what you’re saying. I guess being involved in athletics has given me some more resources and stuff- plus I had the benefit of a strength coach to help me get started and point me in the right direction.
However, I’m pretty active on a couple different message boards on a couple different topics and you see this shit all the time- people just sign up and post dumb shit right off the bat. There will always be those people and most of them will never learn. The smart ones know to keep their mouth shut until they learn at least a litle bit about training.[/quote]
Well, I agree with what your saying. I’ve been playing sports since middle school, and some of these posts make me cringe and scratch my head and wonder how the posters can be so in the dark.
But I think posts like many make ensure that these people stay just as dumb and will never learn. A few respond. But many more would benefit from pointing out in a frank and honest way what’s wrong with their approach-no sugar-coating but not coming across like too much of an asshole.
And then telling them to read the New To T-Nation thread and Vroom’s beginner thread. You don’t have to post a link. They can damn well find it in the beginner’s section themself once it’s been called attention to by someone that doesn’t come across as too antagonistic.
Yes, some people are dumb and still won’t pay attention. And they deserve what they get. But many more will actually read and learn and be put on the right path. I always try to give actual useful information when I see a post like these. But too many times, the flaming’s gone on for pages before I get to it, and the poster never comes back.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
jsbrook,
I get what you’re saying. I guess being involved in athletics has given me some more resources and stuff- plus I had the benefit of a strength coach to help me get started and point me in the right direction.
However, I’m pretty active on a couple different message boards on a couple different topics and you see this shit all the time- people just sign up and post dumb shit right off the bat. There will always be those people and most of them will never learn. The smart ones know to keep their mouth shut until they learn at least a litle bit about training.
Very good point. Regardless of whether some accept it or not, the goal shouldn’t even be to coddle those who aren’t really that serious and more than likely won’t stick with this 2 weeks after spring break is over.
[/quote]
Telling people to look in these places to find good infomration is not coddling. Refraining from making too ridiculous flames that serve nothing but amusing yourself does not preclude honesty and cutting through the bullshit; it does not constitute coddling either.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
What do you aim to accomplish by your posts? Knock some sense into a few who are still left floundering because a thread goes on for three pages of posters taking your lead without giving actual training and nutrition advice? [/quote]
What actual training advice was not given, genius? THE BASICS are where you start. If some guy won’t even accept the fact that they have to train their entire body, why would you go beyond that to give advanced training info? Have you lost your mind? Why are you trying to control how I type? Why do you feel the need to control my actions? What wonderful advice did you give that came from personal experience? If the only thing you can offer…is OTHER PEOPLE’s knowledge, why are you giving advice at all?
Most people on this planet will not train beyond New Year’s Resolution training time frames. Big fucking deal. Some will always leave. Few will go on to actually achieve anything worth noting. That goes on in all of life, especially when the goal is set to “above average”. You have lived how many years without learning this?
[quote]danmaftei wrote:
New points:
To the retard who posted after the Prof, if you’re going to be an asshole, at least be a witty asshole. “The forearm is a main muscle?” I’m glad you understand the way English works.
[/quote]
Well Retard maybe. Asshole NO. Sincere YES.Witty- still needs work, give me time. 
English is not my 1. language so…?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
What do you aim to accomplish by your posts? Knock some sense into a few who are still left floundering because a thread goes on for three pages of posters taking your lead without giving actual training and nutrition advice?
What actual training advice was not given, genius? THE BASICS are where you start. If some idiot won’t even accept the fact that have to train their entire body, why would you go beyond that to give advanced training info?
Have you lost your mind? Why are you trying to control how I type? Why do you feel the need to control my actions? What wonderful advice did you give that came from personal experience? If the only thing you can offer…is OTHER PEOPLE’s knowledge, why are you giving advice at all?
Like you said, some PM you and try to learn on their own. Many more probably just leave the site and never come back and continue of training and eating in their misguided way or seek info from inferior places.
Most people on this planet will not train beyond New Year’s Resolution training time frames. Big fucking deal. Some will always leave. Few will go on to actually achieve anything worth noting. That goes on in all of life, especially when the goal is set to “above average”. You have lived how many years without learning this?[/quote]
Basics? There are articles on this site that give the basics. I’m mentioned some of them. Eat Big and Lift Hard is bullshit. I don’t want to spend my time writing personal advice; sometimes I do, but more often I reference articles that put it together more succinctly than I could without taking a lot of time.
Neither do I want to spend time on the kind of flames that you give to people. Some will leave. Regardless of the kind of recepetion they get at T-Nation. You can post how you want. Your posts cause some to leave that otherwise wouldn’t and eventually be training properly if they stuck around. I sincerely believe this.
We’re not gonna agree on this, so let’s not argue about it anymore.