Bulk is Stalling. Increase Which Macro?

Diet and Nutrition
21

[quote]dgallagher88 wrote:

[quote]skwasny wrote:
We’re making some headway here, and thanks for the image. However, we don’t know what your individual meals look like and where your workouts fit in, which is problematic.

Also, be mindful that these online calorie and macronutrient trackers are only as useful as you use them correctly. What I mean here is this: there is a notable difference between a unit of cooked and uncooked food items, especially if you are consuming frozen meats and poultry. The water lost during the thawing and cooking process is enough to account for a significant difference between what you think you’re eating versus what you’re actually eating.

Regardless of the above, I’d still recommend consuming additional carbs. One gram of carbs per lb of bodyweight is insufficient to ilicit any appreciable gains in size. You’re basically running your body into the ground, despite your belief that any macronutrient manipulation will result in considerable or beneficial hormonal shifts. I mean, you’re only 22! Your test levels should be through the roof!

Hope this helps.[/quote]

Thanks for your comments about the online calculators, and yes I take into account cooked/uncooked for my meats. I put the foods in order throughout the day, it looks like this:

8:30-6 eggs with spinach/salsa
11:00-1 cup oats with berries/1 scoop XF UP 2.0 PREWORKOUT
12-workout
1:15-1.5 scoops myofusion POSTWORKOUT
2:30-9oz chicken (weight after cooked), ton of broccoli, apple, olive oil
6:30-8oz 93/7 beef (weight uncooked), spinach/zucchini , avocado, olive oil
9:30-3 tbsp Peanut Butter, 1.5scoops casein sludge

You suggesting I should up the carbs postworkout I guess? I’m more of a fan of loading them before to give me a boost of energy.

I feel like I’ve got the basics set I’m just missing something for me.
[/quote]

Are you lactose intolerent? if not start adding milk to your diet, just a half gallon of whole milk a day will add 1200 calories, 64g of fat, 96g of carbs, and 64g of protein

Also, are you eating any cheat meals? 1-2 cheat meals a week can add a lot of calories, keep you sane, and wont adversely effect your gains much if at all

22

[quote]Rocky2 wrote:
Eat more beef. [/quote]

X2

Gaining muscle while on low carbs should not be a problem, just consume the carbs during the workout window, make sure you have a lot of protein. Protein is the most important thing when bulking since it is the building blocks of muscle afterall

23

Yes, I’d recommend tailoring your approach to adding more carbs around your workouts. You’re right to say you have the basics down (and your current diet would be ideal for physique competition dieting, by the way) and that you’re missing a little something. Adding carbs pre-workout will put your body into an anabolic state and fuel your training sessions; however, you aren’t doing yourself any favors with such an inadequate glycogen replenishment post-workout. I’d suggest a few things.

Firstly, add at least one dry cup of uncooked oats in the morning (rolled, instant, steel cut… it doesn’t matter) or a multi-grain bagel to your current breakfast. Bump up your pre-workout carbs to a cup and a half of oats, or whatever amount of brown rice, sweet/red potatoes, or yams will yield the same amount of carbs (your online calculator will come in handy here). Then add a quickly digestable source of sugar in combination with your post-workout Myofusion shake. Even a banana or a scoop of Gatorade powder is suitable. Proteins plus rapidly digesting carbs, especially post-workout, will serve to make more efficient use of your powders. Finally, add a low-glycemic carb source to your next meal. The rest is easy - train your ass off, sit back, watch yourself grow like nobody’s business, and start slaying some pussy.

24

[quote]B rocK wrote:
I’d give it a few more months, try cleaning yoru diet up too while keeping calories the same (switch to whole grain, organic stuff if youre not using that. there is a lot to be said for better-for-you healthy foods).

you are pretty light, and if you are a FFB then bulking (without getting fat) is going to be a problem…i suggest reading up on all the other FFB’s on this site…there are a lot of them.[/quote]

My diet is already very clean;
Carbs are tons of veggies, minimal fruits, and oats
Fats are Olive oil, avocado, nuts, eggs, beef
Proteins are chicken, beef, eggs, powder, fish

You saying I should switch to something like Omega 3 eggs and grass fed beef, that’s just about the only thing I could do to make it any cleaner.

Could you link me or give me the clifs to FFB articles, I’ve searched but am having trouble finding the article (I know I’ve read it before). Wouldn’t a lower carb approach for a FFB be a good idea, eating slightly over maintenance.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
Are you lactose intolerent? if not start adding milk to your diet, just a half gallon of whole milk a day will add 1200 calories, 64g of fat, 96g of carbs, and 64g of protein

Also, are you eating any cheat meals? 1-2 cheat meals a week can add a lot of calories, keep you sane, and wont adversely effect your gains much if at all[/quote]

I’m trying to avoid dairy since it seems to bloat me up and have heard too many negative things about it. And I don’t go insane eating clean haha.

[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:

X2

Gaining muscle while on low carbs should not be a problem, just consume the carbs during the workout window, make sure you have a lot of protein. Protein is the most important thing when bulking since it is the building blocks of muscle afterall[/quote]

I’m already taking in a tad over twice my body weight in protein at 280g, I think any more is way overkill but I need more calories.

At the moment I might try making my preworkout oatmeal a little bigger, being more generous with the olive oil, and adding in some more PB before bed.

25

It already is overkill. 2 grams per pound of bodyweight is definitely a little high. You’ll soon realize that not only is this unnecessary and you’re probably giving yourself expensive piss if nothing else. Once you increase your daily carb total, you’ll learn you don’t require quite so much protein per day. With added carbohydrates, you could probably lower your protein count to 1.5 grams per pound of body weight with no appreciable physical difference.

26

[quote]dgallagher88 wrote:
Thanks for your comments about the online calculators, and yes I take into account cooked/uncooked for my meats. I put the foods in order throughout the day, it looks like this:

8:30-6 eggs with spinach/salsa
11:00-1 cup oats with berries/1 scoop XF UP 2.0 PREWORKOUT
12-workout
1:15-1.5 scoops myofusion POSTWORKOUT
2:30-9oz chicken (weight after cooked), ton of broccoli, apple, olive oil
6:30-8oz 93/7 beef (weight uncooked), spinach/zucchini , avocado, olive oil
9:30-3 tbsp Peanut Butter, 1.5scoops casein sludge

You suggesting I should up the carbs postworkout I guess? I’m more of a fan of loading them before to give me a boost of energy.

I feel like I’ve got the basics set I’m just missing something for me.
[/quote]

I think that diet is pretty solid. I agree with what most everyone else has said and would up the carbs. Personally, I would add carbs to your breakfast and some to the afternoon meal. Start out adding around 300 cals or so and if that doesn’t work, up them again.

Your diet is very clean, and you should realize that you won’t always be able to eat this clean while bulking. Eventually you will probably have to start eating fattier meats and maybe cut back on some of the veggies so that you have room for more calorie dense foods.

As far as the test and cortisol levels, without knowing anything else about you I can say with pretty high confidence that you’re probably just overanalyzing and worrying about it too much. People tend to read the symptoms of low T and high cortisol and instantly think that is there problem. Of course there is the chance that the levels are actually off, but until you get bloodwork confirming it you probably shouldn’t just assume it’s true. In other words, don’t let it affect the way you eat. Carbs are good for building muscle, eat them! Don’t be afraid of dairy either. If you have a bad reaction to it, that’s one thing, but don’t avoid it just because other people have had bad experiences with it. If you have trouble with milk, try cottage cheese. High in protein, calorie dense, and very little lactose.

[quote]skwasny wrote:
It already is overkill. 2 grams per pound of bodyweight is definitely a little high. You’ll soon realize that not only is this unnecessary and you’re probably giving yourself expensive piss if nothing else. Once you increase your daily carb total, you’ll learn you don’t require quite so much protein per day. With added carbohydrates, you could probably lower your protein count to 1.5 grams per pound of body weight with no appreciable physical difference.[/quote]

This is great advice as well. When trying to gain, your protein levels should actually be lower than when trying to lose fat. I also second what someone else said, don’t be afraid to throw in some cheat meals if you aren’t doing so already.

27

[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:

[quote]Rocky2 wrote:
Eat more beef. [/quote]

X2

Gaining muscle while on low carbs should not be a problem, just consume the carbs during the workout window, make sure you have a lot of protein. Protein is the most important thing when bulking since it is the building blocks of muscle afterall[/quote]

While he’s getting enough proteins, he could certainly benefit from some more fats.

28

That’s a terrible “bulking” diet in my opinion. Looks like something I used to diet with when I was first starting. PROTEIN is NOT the most important “thing” when bulking. First and foremost, calories are king. After your calories have been established, then you play around with your macros; keeping protein high is typically a given as well. After that, you need to figure out what works best for you with respect to your macro ratios…

Personally, I deal with carbs very well and from a physique stand point look my best when I have protein and carbs high with fats low. If you’re trying to gain, I would add in a lot more carbs for breakfast, pre, during and post workout.

29

Thanks for the input so far guys. I put my meals in for today and it came out to about

3150cal: 140g fat, 275g protein, 175g carb (45g fiber)

Anything else I should be aware of as a “former fat boy”. I’ve got protein covered and am hoping the high fat intake will work for me.

30

why are you assuming your stall out is not training related?

31

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
why are you assuming your stall out is not training related?[/quote]

Well my compound lifts are still slowly increasing whether it be 5lbs or more reps and I’ve only been on the split I’m on for about 6 weeks. I was going to stay with it until after Christmas break was over then change things up at the start of next year. Right now the week is like this

Mon: Power Upper (5x5: Bench, Rows, Military, Shrugs)
Tues: Power Lower (5x5: Squat, Deadlift, Calf exercise)
Weds: Off/cardio
Thurs: Hypertrophy chest/arms (3x8-12: DB press, DB Flyes, Incline variations, bi/tri work)
Fri: Hypertrophy Shoulders/traps (3x8-12: Arnold press, pull-up variations, lateral raises, shrugs)
Sat: Hypertrophy Legs (5x10: Front Squat, leg extensions/curls, calf work, SLDL)
Sun: Off/cardio

I’ve been liking it so far, thoughts?

32

[quote]dgallagher88 wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
why are you assuming your stall out is not training related?[/quote]

Well my compound lifts are still slowly increasing whether it be 5lbs or more reps and I’ve only been on the split I’m on for about 6 weeks. I was going to stay with it until after Christmas break was over then change things up at the start of next year. Right now the week is like this

Mon: Power Upper (5x5: Bench, Rows, Military, Shrugs)
Tues: Power Lower (5x5: Squat, Deadlift, Calf exercise)
Weds: Off/cardio
Thurs: Hypertrophy chest/arms (3x8-12: DB press, DB Flyes, Incline variations, bi/tri work)
Fri: Hypertrophy Shoulders/traps (3x8-12: Arnold press, pull-up variations, lateral raises, shrugs)
Sat: Hypertrophy Legs (5x10: Front Squat, leg extensions/curls, calf work, SLDL)
Sun: Off/cardio

I’ve been liking it so far, thoughts?[/quote]

Doesn’t seem like a bad program to me because you’re sticking to basic movements. The only thing I feel compelled to suggest is that you include more rows, probably on Friday. I personally feel that doing back and shoulders on the same day is a lot of stress on the shoulder joint. You might want to think about doing a chest/shoulders/tris and back/bis split. If you like what you’re doing though, then keep doing it.

33

[quote]riddle22 wrote:

[quote]dgallagher88 wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
why are you assuming your stall out is not training related?[/quote]

Well my compound lifts are still slowly increasing whether it be 5lbs or more reps and I’ve only been on the split I’m on for about 6 weeks. I was going to stay with it until after Christmas break was over then change things up at the start of next year. Right now the week is like this

Mon: Power Upper (5x5: Bench, Rows, Military, Shrugs)
Tues: Power Lower (5x5: Squat, Deadlift, Calf exercise)
Weds: Off/cardio
Thurs: Hypertrophy chest/arms (3x8-12: DB press, DB Flyes, Incline variations, bi/tri work)
Fri: Hypertrophy Shoulders/traps (3x8-12: Arnold press, pull-up variations, lateral raises, shrugs)
Sat: Hypertrophy Legs (5x10: Front Squat, leg extensions/curls, calf work, SLDL)
Sun: Off/cardio

I’ve been liking it so far, thoughts?[/quote]

Doesn’t seem like a bad program to me because you’re sticking to basic movements. The only thing I feel compelled to suggest is that you include more rows, probably on Friday. I personally feel that doing back and shoulders on the same day is a lot of stress on the shoulder joint. You might want to think about doing a chest/shoulders/tris and back/bis split. If you like what you’re doing though, then keep doing it.
[/quote]

Yea I didn’t post the entire workout, just a few of the lifts and target muscles. The final 3 exercises friday are:

  1. Supersetted Wide pullups and shrugs
  2. Supersetted close chinups and upright rows
  3. T-bar rows

I’m definitely going to stick with my routine, it’s my diet I’ve gotta nail down.

34

[quote]dgallagher88 wrote:
Thanks for the input so far guys. I put my meals in for today and it came out to about

3150cal: 140g fat, 275g protein, 175g carb (45g fiber)

Anything else I should be aware of as a “former fat boy”. I’ve got protein covered and am hoping the high fat intake will work for me.[/quote]

The reliance on healthy fats, as opposed to carbs, for fuel will likely serve to keep any bloating/water retention issues at bay, but I don’t believe it’s an ideal selection of food choices for adding muscle. I’d like to see you gradually decrease the calories you receive from fats, meanwhile inversely increasing the calories you receive from carbs. For instance, if you replaced 5 grams of fats with the caloric equivalent of carbs every week for the next few months, I believe you’d be in a better place. I understand your hesitation to add carbs (“former fat boy” - your words, not mine) and maybe your insulin sensitivity isn’t what it used to be, but a gradual shift should work nicely. Of course, don’t forget about your cardio for the obvious caloric expenditure, but also to simply keep the food moving. Hope this helps.

35

[quote]skwasny wrote:

[quote]dgallagher88 wrote:
Thanks for the input so far guys. I put my meals in for today and it came out to about

3150cal: 140g fat, 275g protein, 175g carb (45g fiber)

Anything else I should be aware of as a “former fat boy”. I’ve got protein covered and am hoping the high fat intake will work for me.[/quote]

The reliance on healthy fats, as opposed to carbs, for fuel will likely serve to keep any bloating/water retention issues at bay, but I don’t believe it’s an ideal selection of food choices for adding muscle. I’d like to see you gradually decrease the calories you receive from fats, meanwhile inversely increasing the calories you receive from carbs. For instance, if you replaced 5 grams of fats with the caloric equivalent of carbs every week for the next few months, I believe you’d be in a better place. I understand your hesitation to add carbs (“former fat boy” - your words, not mine) and maybe your insulin sensitivity isn’t what it used to be, but a gradual shift should work nicely. Of course, don’t forget about your cardio for the obvious caloric expenditure, but also to simply keep the food moving. Hope this helps.[/quote]

Thanks for the suggestion, I should hopefully get some good info about where to go dietwise after the bloodwork as well but that sounds like a good idea. Do you think it necessarily matters what fats and carbs I choose? I might just start with some fruit in place of eggs or some beans in place of EVOO or almonds. I’ll try to keep protein constant either way

36

Of course it matters where your carbs come from. I would suggest something other than fruit as a carb source. After all, I’ve never heard of anyone gaining muscle using fruit as a carb source.

And why would you replace eggs with fruit? Please explain your logic here.

37

edit: nevermind, redundant post.

38

[quote]skwasny wrote:
Of course it matters where your carbs come from. I would suggest something other than fruit as a carb source. After all, I’ve never heard of anyone gaining muscle using fruit as a carb source.

And why would you replace eggs with fruit? Please explain your logic here.[/quote]

Well it was suggested I try to replace some of my fats with cabs and breakfast is probably a good place I could use more carbs right? I realize this would also decrease protein a little but I could replace that in later.

Will I honestly notice any difference using an equivalent amount of fruit as opposed to rice or oats? I already have a cup of oatmeal right before workouts and thought the addition of fruit might be a good idea as well.

Does a calorie=calorie (food source irrelevant?)

39

[quote]dgallagher88 wrote:

[quote]skwasny wrote:
Of course it matters where your carbs come from. I would suggest something other than fruit as a carb source. After all, I’ve never heard of anyone gaining muscle using fruit as a carb source.

And why would you replace eggs with fruit? Please explain your logic here.[/quote]

Well it was suggested I try to replace some of my fats with cabs and breakfast is probably a good place I could use more carbs right? I realize this would also decrease protein a little but I could replace that in later.

Will I honestly notice any difference using an equivalent amount of fruit as opposed to rice or oats? I already have a cup of oatmeal right before workouts and thought the addition of fruit might be a good idea as well.

Does a calorie=calorie (food source irrelevant?)[/quote]

Technically, a calorie of energy is a calorie of energy, but you shouldn’t think of it that way. There’s nothing wrong with fruit, I eat tons of it and have never had a problem building muscle. The reason they’re not typically considered a food for bulking is that they aren’t as calorie dense as other carb sources. Yes, 300 calories from apples is essentially the same as 300 calories from oats; but that’s probably 4-5 average size apples, which will fill you up a hell of a lot more than 300 calories of oats would.

Fruit is fine, but if you’re looking for more calories (which you should be) it’s not the most efficient way to get them.

EDIT: Just realized you said this now, but I don’t think anyone is suggesting you just replace calories from one source with calories from another. You need MORE calories, so you should be adding food, not replacing it.

40

[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
That’s a terrible “bulking” diet in my opinion. Looks like something I used to diet with when I was first starting. PROTEIN is NOT the most important “thing” when bulking. First and foremost, calories are king. After your calories have been established, then you play around with your macros; keeping protein high is typically a given as well. After that, you need to figure out what works best for you with respect to your macro ratios…

Personally, I deal with carbs very well and from a physique stand point look my best when I have protein and carbs high with fats low. If you’re trying to gain, I would add in a lot more carbs for breakfast, pre, during and post workout.[/quote]

Exactly.

Davinci and skwasny definitely gave the best advice in this thread.