T Nation

Bulk Cycle Advice?

Hi Guys

I hope I’m posting in the correct section.

My stats:
Age: 29
Height: 5’8"
Weight: ±160 Lbs
Bodyfat: ±10%

Cycle History:
10 weeks Test E & 4 Weeks 30mg/day Dbol (PCT Kessar)
I have done another test only cycle but that was many years ago.

At present I have been training a little over a year.
I have previously however been training for many years but unfortunately due to personal and work I was away from any type of workouts for about 4 years. At the point I stopped I was about 180 Lbs & 7-8% Bf.

Long term goal:
190-200 Lbs & 7-8% Bf

Current cycle goals:
Gain 15 Lbs+ as per cycle below while trying to keep lean. (I know diet dependent)

Proposed Cycle:
Weeks 1-4 Dbol 30mg/day
Weeks 1-14 500mg Test E
Weeks 1-12 300mg Deca
Weeks 1-14 200mg EQ
Weeks 1-16 0.25mg Arimidex EOD

Weeks 14-16 HCG 500iu EOD (Starting 10 days before Kessar start)
Weeks 16-21 Kessar (40/40/40/20/20)

With regards to EQ at a low dose I’m adding that in as one of my issues is a smaller appetite I’m hoping that together with deca will help that. I meet my protein requirements I usually struggle with eating enough “clean” carbs.
I will also possibly increase Deca dosage as the cycle progress’s dependent on progress.
I have some winstrol that was given to me.

Please if anyone can look over this and advise me if I am on the right path for my goals or any changes I should consider.

Thanks in advance

Not sure why you would be adding the low dose of EQ. AI seems high to start. If you want to run it, stay on the low side from the start and only increase if symptoms present themselves. Why are you ceasing the deca earlier than the test? Both take awhile to provide benefits. Quick google search shows Kessar is tamoxifen so that’s fine.

Hi blshaw. Thanks for the reply.
As mentioned I’m hoping eq can help increase my appetite. I haven’t had any estrogen issues in the past. But I’ve read and been told an ai can help keep water retention down. Also with stopping deca early I have been told to run test 1 week longer than deca as deca takes 3 weeks to clear your system but test is just 2. I can change the deca to end week 13.

I think what he’s saying is that the deca takes longer to start working, so it’s usually run on longer cycles in aggregate. Your plan to stop it two weeks before you stop the test is correct, but the total length of the cycle is possibly too short for optimal results. I think your approach with the EQ is unconventional but also possibly correct. At that dose it really won’t do much for muscle growth, but it may well be good for appetite, which as you stated is the goal. So you may just be on to something there. You’ll have to run it to find out I guess.

If you can get your hands on NPP rather than deca you could get the kind of results you want in a shorter cycle. Otherwise it’s going to be tougher (but not impossible!) to make proper use of the magic of nandrolone.

That dbol dose is reasonable, but make sure you’ve got some liver support. Nothing can kill your appetite quite like poisoning your liver.

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Hi Iron. Thanks. I am able to get NPP. If I were to change the deca for NPP how would I dose it? I haven’t really looked into that option. I’m assuming with NPP I’d run it for the full 14weeks opposed to 12 on deca?
I’m also abit worried to run deca too long as apparently it shuts you down hard and a long cycle would take longer to recover.
For liver support those are hard to come by here besides things like milk thistle. I am able to get cardarine. Should I add this in?

You’d dose the NPP at 300mg/w and this would actually be stronger than deca at that dose. You’d take it 3x a week, and that part of the cycle could go as few as 10 weeks. It’d be a way to get the bulk effect of nandrolone without having to run it out too long.

If you can get NAC for liver support that would be great. You’re not taking a heavy dose of dbol so the damage should be minimal (relatively speaking) but anything you can do to mitigate it is better than doing nothing.

Okay I will look for NAC.

Back to NPP. So NPP 100mg EOD or 300mg p/wk for 10 weeks would be more effective than Deca over 12/13 weeks?
NPP is quite a bit more expensive than Deca.

100mg eod should be quite good. It’s more expensive but it’s also more powerful. The actual amount of hormone in each ml is higher because the ester weight is hugely different between PP and D. Based on the research available you could get away with two shots a week (it hits peak plasma levels at ~4 days) but eod is more consistent. That’s up to you and your schedule. Big picture it should be cheaper because you’d be buying three vials that would last 10 weeks vs deca which would be four vials for 12 weeks.

Thanks for your help Iron.
I have access to the following and because i know the seller personally i get wholesale pricing. Im using a rough conversion to USD.
Deca 330mg/ml 10ml @ $35 ea
NPP 100mg/ml 10ml @ $25 ea

I would need 2 vials Deca or 4 Vials NPP. Im gonna revisit my budget and try and fit in NPP.

Ok if I change to NPP @ 10 weeks do i shorten the length of the test aswell?

Hi Guys.
Ok I’m really considering NPP more now. I will have to drop EQ for it.
I need to know about the recovery from NPP vs Deca. Same time vs same time. 12weeks vs 12weeks. Or if I should increase the length of the Deca cycle from 12 to 14.

If my time off can be reduced that will be a huge plus for me as I am hoping to run 1 more cycle around Nov/Dec if possible. I really want to compete in the local comp early next year.

You’ll like the NPP more. I prefer it over Deca. 300mg weekly is a good dose for your cycle. Same recovery as deca . Run it for 12 if you can but 10 is just fine.

What would be the effect of adding masteron low dose into this cycle? Would I get any benefit from it? EQ has been dropped.

Test/nand/mast is a popular stack. Gives you the whole range of hormones and has great synergies.

Would 200mg be too much/little per week? Should it be run for the length of the test or deca?

Length doesn’t matter as much with that when it’s relative to test and nand. I don’t know if 200 is too little, as I have not used it yet. I know guys love it at a low dose paired with trt/cruise. But I think it’s usually run 400+ by the guys who are seeking to maximize the effects.

Thanks again Iron.
I’ll keep at it 200mg I don’t want the combined mg off other compounds to be greater than Test. In saying that I will bump test e up to 600mg p/wk.
I think I’ve decided on everything. Currently taking 2 weeks off from gym, besides cardio twice a week. I will detox during this time.
Then 2 weeks back in gym before I start course.
Are there any other suggestions/comments?

Amended Cycle:

Weeks 1-4 Dbol 30mg/day
Weeks 1-14 600mg Test E
Weeks 1-12 300mg Deca (Step upto 350/400mg dependent on gains)
Weeks 1-14 200mg Mast E
Weeks 1-16 0.25mg Arimidex E3D

Weeks 14-16 HCG 500iu EOD (Starting 10 days before Kessar start)
Weeks 16-21 Kessar (40/40/40/20/20)

Decided to try Deca this time. NPP next bulk. I would like to experience the differences between them.
Please any suggestions/comments on any part.