T Nation

Building the Perfect Wideguy


I'm reading and rereading and REREADING. BTPB and CME, BTW nice links guys (Pecs/Hooker) and I'm ready to commit very soon.

Using the following AAS, and other ergogenics I'm trying to come up with a real nice few layers and would love some feedback from others who've used these methods. I dont' have time to post what I'm going to do (to be honest I'm still trying to figure out EXACTLY how I'm going to lay things out so yes it is a little lame and rather then rip me just dont' reply right now if you feel the need to talk shit) I will have my own ideas up soon. Just asking for someone with experiance to walk with me a bit on this one. Heres what I'm going to/can use test prop, test enth, drol, winny (oral and injectable well you can drink the im shit but....alright nevermind), masteron, dbol, hgh (probably 3 kits), cytadren (should I get some? I can), igf-1 (3 mgs) hcg, t-3, clen. I'm toying with getting some EQ.

As for ai and serms this is where I get confused. I see him reccomending nolva or clomid ALOT, but wonder if he would still say that this many years later with products like aromasin, letro, arimidex, and all the other readily available research chems being so cheap/abundant. Does anyone have any links to more recent beast cycles laid out by the man?

BTW, I am "sort of " asking for someone to put a cycle together for me. I've flamed people for that and I might catch shit here. If that's the case, no sweat of my sack. Still I'd appreciate some insight.

Thanks in advance,



I wish I could help ya on the PCT. I haven't had the opportunity to try all the methods to see what works best. However, each cycle provides a new opportunity!

The reason I posted however was this, save the hgh bro. Your gonna run out of shit to try by the time your 30. One of my training partners who is 34 has been on it for 6 months now (which imo is the minimum). There is no doubt it works. The biggest thing I have seen is retention of gains from his cycle. He also notes more energy and improved skin/hair etc. He was vascular as hell while on it with test as well, much more so than previous cycles.

I'm tempted to try it to, but I just think I have alot more growing to do before I turn to hgh. If you haven't read it yet, pm me and I'll send you a link to view building the perfect beast.



Funny you should bring BTPB up. I've also been rereading it lately and was considering making a thread to discuss some of the concepts LR has in there that I find interesting, yet confusing.


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LOL. Are you sure that's going to be enough for you???j/k

I like the bare bones of your cycle idea. I second Bushy's idea about kickstarting your cycle with A-drol/Winny combo. I ran it at the start of my cycle and the gains were excellent. I'm currently on week 10 of my cycle and it's very similar to the one you've outlined in your post except no D-Bol (I don't like it.).

I'd use A-dex over cytadren. JMO.

I'm also curious to see the recommendations on how to include the HGH, IGF-1, and T3 into a cycle. Personally I'd give Clen a miss, but to each their own.



You've been covered. Anyhow, Wasup whore how ya doin?



MOI~???! A huewhoure? :slightly_smiling:

(This board neesds some fucking smiley face symbols and silly little characters doing shit like laughing, running, lifting, and farting in other little smiley charater's faces. I'm getting tired of posting :slightly_smiling: or :wink: it limits my creativity and expression of my inner child)

LOL! YOu see? That could be a little smiley guy laughing.

Anyway, I really like what I'm seeing so far and am going to take a real serious look at what Bushy has suggested and weigh things out. Try and figure in what type of trainin style would be the smartest right now, btw I'm going to take his training style for spin as well. I've read over that part only once and to be honest there was some times (a fucking few) where I read it once and SHOULD HAVE definitely read it like 3 more times. However, there was soo much to take in that I really wanted to look at what to do different in reguards to my AAS as I've tried just about every training styel out there or read on it and hadnt' read as much about this style of AAS/ergogenic aid. ALthough I will say in regaurds to the "Organized Chaos" style of training (I think that's what he calls it?) I haven't done anything that similar to what he suggests which seems like alot of drop sets, negative only sets, and burn out sets.

Little problems so far?

I LIKE the look I've gotten of winny in the past but the sides sucked. I've ran it 2 times now and that's been over 3 1/2 or 4 years of cycling. The first time I ran WAY too much imo and probably used it for too long which is why I disliked it soo much. Then the second time I tried it was some oral that I homebrewed and unfortunately it was underdosed and seemed to not do nearly what the injectable high dosed version did. Wich is kind of a no brainer! However, I also have grown a disdain for it based on the number of people I know or have read about ect who end up with an injury or just the brittle joint issue.

As for the drol. I've used it before and found that it did make me very large and pretty strong. I also felt like shit on it. I did once again use more then I think Rea would reccomend for use during one of his cycles. SO perhaps it will be less of an issue?

Here's what I'm hoping for and the reason I'm trying BOTH of these compounds that I "don't really like". I'm wondering if at lower doses and for a period of time that should barely allow for the sides to kick in, AND since these two complement eachother well, drol and winstrol won't do me so dirty. I'm know that winstrol will cut down on the water retention that drol alone would cause (and especially the bloat that drol and test enth causes). So that's a plus. However the kinda shitty mood and lack of appetite that drol has caused me might still be an issue, or maybe not at the lower dose/short time period? Still that leaves the joint issues with the winny. Don't imagine that the water retention from the drol would balance that out? I'm pretty damn sure that's wishful thinking but I don't know? I'm pretty sure that's oversimplified thinking though :slightly_smiling:

I do have insulin and will be using it as is described with the hgh (probably) and the igf-1 in the tale end of my AAS Anabolic stage. Which will come in around week 4-6 of my Max Androgen phase. While I'm talking about the Absolute Anabolic stage would running that(HGH/SLIN/IGF1) with only the anabolic aas that I'd be shortchange the gains I'd get from running hgh with an androgen present?

Also, I'd like to adress the comment monopoly made about now using HGH yet. How many of you boys agree on that one? I can see where you say that and I appreciate your putting in your 2 cc's. My take on it is that I'm at a point in my life where I can see myself taking this one last big swing at a cycle to get up to 250-260 then being able to stay around 240-250 there without using anything more just AAS and other beast protocols but NOT igf-1 or hgh. Probably still use slin/creatine/bcaa's with his low dose aas protocols to ease into the htpa/cortisol suppression phase. Otherwise no more gh until I'm an HRT candidate (I'm hoping I have good insurance by the time I'm in my 40's). As for igf-1? I kinda like it but to be truthful it better do a whole lot more with gh and slin then it does alone,cause I have NO interest in using it alone or even with just AAS as I've done in the past. It's just not that great to me and I'd rather either us just aas or certain supplements.

I'm kinda sleepy so I'm signing off from here boys but I'll be back tomorrow. Thanks and ANYONE who wants to discuss there BTPB type cycle on here/contribute something about there experiance or general knowlege feel free to hop in.




Why do Drol and Winstrol compliment each other?

They are both derived from Dihydrotestosterone and they both show a poor affinity for the Androgen Receptor. SO what you have is two weakly binding steroids, derived from the same parent molecule...

Why would that be complimentary?


Anthony, i have no doubt that you have researched these topics extensively, but i think i have determined why you rub people the wrong way so much. Reread what you wrote. Would you (and everyone else) not be better served by voicing your opinion on the topic and offering an alternative approach instead of just challenging every one else every time they post something? I mean, from a business standpoint, do you think you will be more succussful by : (A) Offering evidence why someone may want to take an alternate path or (B) just trying to prove everyone else's ideas wrong. Seriously think about it, you may have alot to offer but the more people you offend the less anyone listens.


Hey bud,
You crack me up. You know that when you get to 250 it's not gonna be what you thought it would. :slightly_smiling:

I know your pretty big, but do you really think your done growing on just aas? I mean, we both have a long way to go in the game (at least I do) and I just don't understand while your pulling out all the stops so young. If you were trying to go pro that would be one thing, but if you get to 250 at 25, where are you going to be at 35?

I'm not slamming ya at all, I'm just curious. I wish you well either way, and I'll be following your progress regardless.

Personally, I hope by the time I'm 35 I can stay on a hgh and hrt for a long long time. The only reason I won't now is fertility issues, but that's just me.



An example of synergism could be the Anadrol/Winstrol theory put forward by T-mag?s answer to Dr. Evil, Bill Roberts. In this theory, the progestational activity of Anadrol is offset by Winstrol?s ability to lower progesterone. The fact that Winstrol will effectively reduce SHBG and bind to glucocorticoid receptors won?t go amiss either.

That's from the S-files and I didn't look around but I'm sure there's an article or two where Bill Roberts talks about using the two with some success. Hence me thinking that, and other people mentioning it working nicely.

BTW, Tone? I saw your post speaking on the winny/drol idea and I thought you said that the joint pain was not really an issue when the two are used together? I'm guessing you've used winny by itself and it WAS an issue then you stacked the two and it wasn't?

Monopoly, you know you bring up an interesting point my man. Better make it 4 kits! LOL just kidding...sort of. I am still taking it into consideration my man and like I said I do appreciate your opinion.


BTW, AR you need a shave bitch! You look like a meathead beatnick, that would be a meatnick or would it be a beathead? :wink: I'll use them interchangeably.

As for what Pain said about AR being a dickhead. I'm real sure he already knows it and is just FINE with it. Most of us dickheads are. For a better explanation of dicks, assholes, and pussys I suggest Team America World Police.

Time to go get the last of 20 hours of tattoo work done, maybe 23 :slight_smile: in the past month.


I'm not sure Anadrol has progestational activity. In women at least, administration of Anadrol lowers progesterone secretion.



Speaking of your busines... I asked you were to obtain a copy of your e-book, I assume I would have to pay for it, so unless you missed my post on your other thread I am puzzled as to why you didn't answer.


Yeah your right. I have used Winny on its own and got joint pain. It really wasn't an issue when I used it combined with Drol.


I missed it...yeah, my bad.

Umm...the e-book isn't available yet, but I'll give details in a locker-room thread as soon as it is.


During my research into this cycle I read that Drol doesn't have a progestational effect, but acts more like estrogen. Something to do with the action of the A-ring. Then again don't quote me on this;-D



It has to be a modification on the A-ring logically, as thats where the 2-hydroxymethelyne group resides, and this is the only way in which it differs from simply methylated DHT. This may give it inherent ability to stimulate either the PgR or ER, without being an estrogen, converting to one, or being a progestin.


I recall a few times reading that drol the drol causes estrogenic fat deposits that aren't caused by aromatization. Could winstrol help reduce that? If not what would be better are reducing that side affect?

BTW, for tone or anyone else who's run the stack of those 2 what gains did you get and where they nice a hard/veiny like the gains from winny or soft and bloaty like the gains from drol?