Building Muscle

[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

look on his NBB facebook page he is no longer fat and weak. [/quote]

lol?

it’s good to know the people here giving advice are getting all their info from fat kids who are DB pressing 30 lbs

gotta get that TUT bro

[/quote]

that’s how you get huge bro. you didn’t know that?

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

to a degree yes. but there are many well built physiques by people who dont really know much about nutrtion or masic training methods.

just because somebody is big does not make them more knowledgebale than someone smaller. alan argorn, lyle mcdonald, ian mccarthy. all dont have great physiques (although ian is improving but but no far more about muscle building, nutrition and exercise physiology than alot of well built guys here.[/quote]

that’s why he’s still just a fat weakling after several years, because he’s more knowledgeable about bodybuilding than people who build muscle

sounds legit

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

i didnt say the fatter you are the less muscle you gain, strong reading skills X. i said the muscle to fat gain ratio gets worse the higher your bodyfat gets.

physique does not equall knowledge but yes i will post pictures at the end of my bulk.[/quote]

nice useless statement. so you are saying that if you gain 5 lbs of fat, that the muscle/fat ratio of your body will be worse than if you hadn’t gained the 5 lbs

thanks for the math lesson
[/quote]

no you all need to fucking learn how to read. im not gonna repeat my self again read my post. the fatter you are the worse the muscle to fat gain ratio becomes if you continue to bulk.

regarding ian mccarthy im guessing he has a better physique than you anyway and 10x the knowledge, im not going to discuss this anymore with retards who believe because someone is not huge it means they are not knowledgable.[/quote]

Have officially lost any and all respect for you. You seriously disrespect a Guy like X who has been around for years. Either way why wait to post pics at the end of your bulk if you have something worth showing and have so much knowledge you should be a freak so lets see what you got pics of the physique and your Max lifts I would be very interested in seeing.
[/quote]

i direspected X because he has done the exact same thing to me numerous times before, so no i dont care i disrespected the all mighty professorx. considering he had a go at me for something i didnt say and made himself look like an idiot.

I WILL be posting pics at the end of my bulk so everyone shut the fuck up about me not posting pictures.
lol celphalic_carnage posted here for years without posting a pic or vid and use didnt have a problem listnening to him.

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
the fatter you get the more insulin resistant you become so you’ll add fat easier. As for whether that slows muscle gains I don’t know if it does to any significant degree, but I figure if your calories are going to fat stores then they’re not building muscle.

so yes, I believe your body is more inclined to build a muscle at a lower bodyfat percentage.[/quote]

this is true the fatter you are the worse your muscle to fat gain ratio will be if you continue to bulk. [/quote]

Bullshit. Prove that the fatter you are the less muscle you gain.

Post pictures kid. The fact that you give advice here is troubling many people.[/quote]

i didnt say the fatter you are the less muscle you gain, strong reading skills X. i said the muscle to fat gain ratio gets worse the higher your bodyfat gets.

physique does not equall knowledge but yes i will post pictures at the end of my bulk.[/quote]

Gee, if the “muscle to fat gain ratio gets worse” that means you are gaining more fat than muscle. You are claiming that simply carrying more body fat means you automatically cause the “muscle to fat gain ratio to get worse”. This is BULLSHIT.

You are making pseudoscience out of extreme scientific examples.

Yes, an OBESE person may gain less muscle, but that has way more to do with conditioning and overall lifestyle and exercise level.

You can’t speak on the science of this because you have no educational background there.

People can see that in your posts. The only people who can’t are newbs themselves.

You should listen way more than you type. I didn’t get muscles by accident doofus.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
the fatter you get the more insulin resistant you become so you’ll add fat easier. As for whether that slows muscle gains I don’t know if it does to any significant degree, but I figure if your calories are going to fat stores then they’re not building muscle.

so yes, I believe your body is more inclined to build a muscle at a lower bodyfat percentage.[/quote]

this is true the fatter you are the worse your muscle to fat gain ratio will be if you continue to bulk. [/quote]

Bullshit. Prove that the fatter you are the less muscle you gain.

Post pictures kid. The fact that you give advice here is troubling many people.[/quote]

i didnt say the fatter you are the less muscle you gain, strong reading skills X. i said the muscle to fat gain ratio gets worse the higher your bodyfat gets.

physique does not equall knowledge but yes i will post pictures at the end of my bulk.[/quote]

Gee, if the “muscle to fat gain ratio gets worse” that means you are gaining more fat than muscle. You are claiming that simply carrying more body fat means you automatically cause the “muscle to fat gain ratio to get worse”. This is BULLSHIT.

You are making pseudoscience out of extreme scientific examples.

Yes, an OBESE person may gain less muscle, but that has way more to do with conditioning and overall lifestyle and exercise level.

You can’t speak on the science of this because you have no educational background there.

People can see that in your posts. The only people who can’t are newbs themselves.

You should listen way more than you type. I didn’t get muscles by accident doofus.[/quote]

here we go again with the im bigger so im right shit, its getting old.

the fatter you are the higher your insulin resistance is, insulin is one of the bodys most anabolic muscle building hormones. i dont need an educational background to know about the science behind things.

SMH.

X mistook what Ryan said. Ryan didn’t really say much anyway. Everything else after that is trash.

[quote]setto222 wrote:
From what I’ve read (and somewhat experienced) there is a goldy-locks zone for this type of situations. Though I think the differences from both ends of the continuum (low bf —> high bf) isn’t anything huge. Many people around here have said that they tend to be better at gaining muscle when they carry a bit more weight on them. I would love to hear Prof. X’s opinion on this considering he seems to be very well versed in endochrinology as well as homeostasis.

I hate to be one of those PubMed guys, but i don’t have access to my schools data base atm (i need to L2 VPN). Here’s an extreme case.

has this study been reproduced w/o so many threads to external validity? i mean, n=16 for each group (which is ridiculous, it’s mice - adding 10 more to eliminate the low subject number problem shouldn’t be too hard) and then those high p-values…
obviously that all adds to the problem that it’s not a study done in humans which would be a seperate discussion

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
the fatter you get the more insulin resistant you become so you’ll add fat easier. As for whether that slows muscle gains I don’t know if it does to any significant degree, but I figure if your calories are going to fat stores then they’re not building muscle.

so yes, I believe your body is more inclined to build a muscle at a lower bodyfat percentage.[/quote]

this is true the fatter you are the worse your muscle to fat gain ratio will be if you continue to bulk. [/quote]

Bullshit. Prove that the fatter you are the less muscle you gain.

Post pictures kid. The fact that you give advice here is troubling many people.[/quote]

i didnt say the fatter you are the less muscle you gain, strong reading skills X. i said the muscle to fat gain ratio gets worse the higher your bodyfat gets.

physique does not equall knowledge but yes i will post pictures at the end of my bulk.[/quote]

Gee, if the “muscle to fat gain ratio gets worse” that means you are gaining more fat than muscle. You are claiming that simply carrying more body fat means you automatically cause the “muscle to fat gain ratio to get worse”. This is BULLSHIT.

You are making pseudoscience out of extreme scientific examples.

Yes, an OBESE person may gain less muscle, but that has way more to do with conditioning and overall lifestyle and exercise level.

You can’t speak on the science of this because you have no educational background there.

People can see that in your posts. The only people who can’t are newbs themselves.

You should listen way more than you type. I didn’t get muscles by accident doofus.[/quote]

here we go again with the im bigger so im right shit, its getting old.

the fatter you are the higher your insulin resistance is, insulin is one of the bodys most anabolic muscle building hormones. i dont need an educational background to know about the science behind things.
[/quote]

thats not true

the fatter you are the higher your insulin resistance is? lol

insulin resistance is associated w/ excess fat around stomach, but that doesn’t mean excess fat is the cause of insulin resistance.

insulin resistance is caused by excess exposure to processed carbs

[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:

thats not true

the fatter you are the higher your insulin resistance is? lol

insulin resistance is associated w/ excess fat around stomach, but that doesn’t mean excess fat is the cause of insulin resistance.

insulin resistance is caused by excess exposure to processed carbs[/quote]

Agreed. That is why I made the comment. His entire statement is bullshit…but since it is “bro-science” it must be true.

You can NOT make a statement that no matter what, the fatter you are the higher your insulin resistance. That completely ignores genetic metabolism and simple variance in biology.

That is why I comment on Ryan…he posts bullshit nonstop and has the nerve to critique others who have accomplished more than he has.

[quote]Moe Doobie wrote:
SMH.

X mistook what Ryan said. Ryan didn’t really say much anyway. Everything else after that is trash.

[/quote]

? No one mistook Ryan. Ryan just doesn’t know what he is talking about.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Moe Doobie wrote:
SMH.

X mistook what Ryan said. Ryan didn’t really say much anyway. Everything else after that is trash.

[/quote]

? No one mistook Ryan. Ryan just doesn’t know what he is talking about.[/quote]

lylemcd

the thing to realize is what insulin resistance actually implies. Insulin is a storage hormone, stimulating nutrient uptake in many tissues (including liver, muscle, and fat cells). This is especially true for glucose.

So what happens when fat cells are insulin resistant? It means that insulin can’t inhibit lipolysis (fat breakdown). Nor can it activate nutrient storage. This is part of why severely insulin resistannt individuals get increased blood levels of glucose, fatty acids and cholesterol, insulin is unable to either limit release from the cell or stimulate uptake. Since muscle is full (see below), they either get stored in inappropriate places (beta-cells of the liver) or float around in the bloodstream.

What about in muscle? An insulin resistant muscle cell is unable to uptake glucose. Without glucose to use for fuel, the cell has to find an alternative source. In this case, that alternative source is fatty acids.

So when fat cell insulin resistance is high, fatty acids are easier to mobilze. When muscle cell insulin resistance is high, glucose isn’t used for fuel and fatty acids are. So in a caloric deficit, this means you use more fat for fuel b/c they are coming out of fat cells more easily and muscle is usingg them preferentially for fuel.

this is part of how things like clen, EC and GH work. By mobilizing fatty acids at a high rate and making the muscle cell insulin resistant, muscle has to forego glucose for fuel and use the mobilized fatty acids instead (note: this also spares protein in a carb insufficient state). A recent study on GH found that the fatty acid mobilizing effect of GH was THE key to its protein sparing effects: block the increase in fatty acids and you get the same amount of protein loss.

On that note, you should realize that studies examining predisoposition to obesity (for example, in the Pima indians) find that insulin sensitivity predicts weight gain and insulin resistance predicts weight loss or stability.

Insulin resistance develops with obesity and can be thought of as a way for the body trying to prevent further weight gain. Note that this is different in growing individuals such as children or pregnant women.

To be even more accurate to what I wrote above you need to differentiate muscle insulin resistance from whole body insulin resistance. In general, the body will develop insulin resistance in this order:

liver then muscle then fat cell

There are some weird genetic exceptions but the above would be a typical progression with diet induced insulin resistance.

Now, when muscle becomes insulin resistant, this shuttles more calories to the fat cells preferentially. In that sense, localized (muscular) insulin resistance causes more fat to be gained for a given caloric load. It’s negative calorie partitioning. Note that this isn’t only local, there are central (brain effects) controlling these processes as well.

This makes perfect sense: if the muscle is plenty full of nutrients and there is still a surplus, they should get pushed into storage as effectively as possible. So the msucle stops accepting nutrients and the rest go to the fat cells. The best way to prevent this is not to overeat and to deplete muscular fuel stores with exercise. In modern society, we do both: eat too much and don’t exercise often enough. So muscle gets full of nutrients, becomes insulin resistant, and the excess calroeis go to fat cells post haste.

But as fat cells get filled up, problems start. The fat cell starts releasing a lot of hormones such as leptin, TNf-alpha, resistin (may only be relevant in rats) and others that prevent further nutrient storage (you can also get an increase in fat cell number). Now you’re developing full body insulin resistance.

Once full body insulin resistance develops (with obesity), this acts to LIMIT further weight gain. Note that insulin resistance also means higher basal levels of insulin (there are also higher levlels of leptin as you get this fat). Both insulin and leptin should act to signal the brain to make you stop eating but the system isn’t very sensitive to that. Additionally, it serves to push nutrients towards oxidation when you diet for the reasons above.

It’s interesting to note that individuals without fat cells (lipodystrophy), which mimicks full body insulin resistance are protected against weight gain. First their muscles and liver fill up with nutrients, then they develop severe hyperglycemia, hypercholesterolemia and all the rest. Individuals with severe genetic insulin resistance have the same effect occur: they don’t gain weight. They get a bunch of other health problems if you overfeed them but the severe genetic insulin resistance makes it so tnutrients can’t be stored in their cells.

Also consider that insulin sensitivity improves as you lose weight. And the single time you are most prone to gain wight is at the end of the diet: when you are most insulin SENSITIVE.

As above, insulin sensitivity predicts weight gain, insulin resistance (full body) weight/fat loss.

Basically insulin resistance isn’t always BAD. Quite in fact, it can be adaptive.

Now, in the context of excess calories/carbs and no activity (i.e. weight gain), insulin resistance is a bad thing to have. If you have muscular insulin resistance, more calories go to fat cells. If you have ful lbody insulin resistance, excess calories either sit in the bloodsream or get stored in the wrong spots, causing cell death.

Actually, if the goal is muscle gain with limited fat gain, it’d be wonderful to have fat cells resistant to nutrient storage and locally increase muscular insulin sensitivity. This would cause preferential nutrient partitioning to muscle. The question is how to do it. I have an idea but it’s not fully fleshed out. For fatter individuals who begin an exercise program, this occurs naturally which is (IMO) one reason they can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. The exercise preferentially improves muscular insulin sensitivity, the fat cells are releasing fat like nobody’s business and you get calorie partitioning until the point that it all starts to balance out.

When you’re dieting and not eating enough carbs (by definition, on a diet, carbs are reduced), insulin resistance is adaptive. By making muscle rely on fatty acids for fuel, glucose is spared for the brain and other tissues which require it.

Note that most of the current insulin sensitizing medications (especially the TZD drugs) cause further weight gain. Obesity docs don’t care becuse they just want to see blood glucose and the rest levels go down.

As above, whole body insulin resistance develops in an effort to both limit further fat/weight gain and ensure that the body burns the fat off (sparing muscle) when you diet. This would have been adaptive in the context of our evolutionary dieting pattern, it’s maladptive in our current environment.

Right before his death, Dan Duchaine commented that adding insulin sensitizersr to a diet seemed to increase muscle loss.

now please shut up because you clearly dont know as much as you think you do.

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Moe Doobie wrote:
SMH.

X mistook what Ryan said. Ryan didn’t really say much anyway. Everything else after that is trash.

[/quote]

? No one mistook Ryan. Ryan just doesn’t know what he is talking about.[/quote]

now please shut up because you clearly dont know as much as you think you do. [/quote]

you posted an article on insulin resistance, good job, but you were arguing that skinny people build muscle easier than fatter people, when it is dependent on insulin resistance, and not their weight or bodyfat %

still apparently don’t know the difference between correlation and causation. Do you think an anorexic person who eats nothing but sugar will have good insulin sensitivity? Vs someone who has more fats/proteins in diet but has a higher bodyfat %?

please paste more irrelevant articles

[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Moe Doobie wrote:
SMH.

X mistook what Ryan said. Ryan didn’t really say much anyway. Everything else after that is trash.

[/quote]

? No one mistook Ryan. Ryan just doesn’t know what he is talking about.[/quote]

now please shut up because you clearly dont know as much as you think you do. [/quote]

you posted an article on insulin resistance, good job, but you were arguing that skinny people build muscle easier than fatter people, when it is dependent on insulin resistance, and not their weight or bodyfat %

still apparently don’t know the difference between correlation and causation. Do you think an anorexic person who eats nothing but sugar will have good insulin sensitivity? Vs someone who has more fats/proteins in diet but has a higher bodyfat %?

please paste more irrelevant articles[/quote]

lol show me where i said skinny people build muscle easier than fat people. the original question was is your body more inclined to build muscle at a lower bodyfat percentage.

RDS said the same thing the fatter you are the more insulin resistant your body will be, thus less calories get used for building muscle tissue.

“If you have muscular insulin resistance, more calories go to fat cells”

ie the fatter you get the less calories go to building muscle and more to fat cells.

so yes the leaner you are the more inclined your body is to build muscle. within reason obviously trying to build muscle at 6% bodyfat is not the best idea.

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Moe Doobie wrote:
SMH.

X mistook what Ryan said. Ryan didn’t really say much anyway. Everything else after that is trash.

[/quote]

? No one mistook Ryan. Ryan just doesn’t know what he is talking about.[/quote]

now please shut up because you clearly dont know as much as you think you do. [/quote]

you posted an article on insulin resistance, good job, but you were arguing that skinny people build muscle easier than fatter people, when it is dependent on insulin resistance, and not their weight or bodyfat %

still apparently don’t know the difference between correlation and causation. Do you think an anorexic person who eats nothing but sugar will have good insulin sensitivity? Vs someone who has more fats/proteins in diet but has a higher bodyfat %?

please paste more irrelevant articles[/quote]

lol show me where i said skinny people build muscle easier than fat people. the original question was is your body more inclined to build muscle at a lower bodyfat percentage.

RDS said the same thing the fatter you are the more insulin resistant your body will be, thus less calories get used for building muscle tissue.

“If you have muscular insulin resistance, more calories go to fat cells”

ie the fatter you get the less calories go to building muscle and more to fat cells.

so yes the leaner you are the more inclined your body is to build muscle. within reason obviously trying to build muscle at 6% bodyfat is not the best idea. [/quote]

well you and RDS are wrong

high BF% does not = insulin resistance