T Nation

Building Muscle WHILE Burning Fat?

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
It still has to be explained to me how you can lose fat, while consuming more calories than your body burns. Or how you can build muscle while consuming less calories then your daily levels. It’s this against the law of thermodynamics or something??

I mean it all comes down to the macros in the end. I think that body composition and shape will make you appear like you are adding muscle while losing fat.

BUT. If there are studies where there are guys who lost 20 pounds of fat by added an inch to their arms, I’d love to see them. I’d be surprised, but I would love to see them. Are they out there? Of course I’m referring to a natural dude here.[/quote]
I see what your getting at here. It’s not always a calories in calories out thing. We all utilize proteins and fats differently as energy.

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
It still has to be explained to me how you can lose fat, while consuming more calories than your body burns. Or how you can build muscle while consuming less calories then your daily levels. It’s this against the law of thermodynamics or something??

I mean it all comes down to the macros in the end. I think that body composition and shape will make you appear like you are adding muscle while losing fat.

BUT. If there are studies where there are guys who lost 20 pounds of fat by added an inch to their arms, I’d love to see them. I’d be surprised, but I would love to see them. Are they out there? Of course I’m referring to a natural dude here.[/quote]

Here’s one:
Maintained muscle on a 800 calorie diet due to adding resistance training…

http://www.jacn.org/content/18/2/115.abstract

So if at 800 calories you can maintain muscle and lose a boat load of fat…you can no doubt build muscle with a wee bit more calories. The reason PRO bodybuilders lose muscle, even when they use copious amounts of steroids is because the go to 3% bodyfat which is such an unnaturally low percentage it throws everything of. Although…there are plenty of guys growing into a show.
It all depends on know how and experience. Don’t know how? Hire Stu…or Meadows…

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
It still has to be explained to me how you can lose fat, while consuming more calories than your body burns. Or how you can build muscle while consuming less calories then your daily levels. It’s this against the law of thermodynamics or something??

I mean it all comes down to the macros in the end. I think that body composition and shape will make you appear like you are adding muscle while losing fat.

BUT. If there are studies where there are guys who lost 20 pounds of fat by added an inch to their arms, I’d love to see them. I’d be surprised, but I would love to see them. Are they out there? Of course I’m referring to a natural dude here.[/quote]

Here’s one:
Maintained muscle on a 800 calorie diet due to adding resistance training…

http://www.jacn.org/content/18/2/115.abstract

So if at 800 calories you can maintain muscle and lose a boat load of fat…you can no doubt build muscle with a wee bit more calories. The reason PRO bodybuilders lose muscle, even when they use copious amounts of steroids is because the go to 3% bodyfat which is such an unnaturally low percentage it throws everything of. Although…there are plenty of guys growing into a show.
It all depends on know how and experience. Don’t know how? Hire Stu…or Meadows…[/quote]

lmao thanks for the horseshit study

Ah, T-Nation’s new expert is chiming in. Fantastic.

It’s possible. In 60 days, I added 6 pounds of muscle and lost 6 pounds of fat, which took me down from 15% to 10% body fat. I ate at a slight caloric deficit of about 100-200 per day and working out intensely.

The way I make bro-scientific sense of it is that I ate enough protein and calories for growth, but forced the body to turn to fat for the slight bit of extra energy it needed every day.

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Ah, T-Nation’s new expert is chiming in. Fantastic.[/quote]

a bunch of untrained people were able to preserve what miniscule amount of LBW they had while strength training whilst on a VLCD…

and this relates to us how?

again, thanks for the horseshit study

It is possible, but not long term.

It’s all a matter of proper signalling actually. Either through dietary intake or through exogenous signalling (hormones, (naturals can ignore this last part)), if one can signal the body when it’s most advantageous to enter an anabolic state (i.e post-workout with upregulation of mTor through leucine intake, carbs and insulin both endoxenous in case of naturals or exogenous in case of enhanced lifters.), and when to signal a catabolic state to fat cells (cortisol, L-Cartinine, or just ol’ plain simple callorie restriction, etc.).

So definetly can be done. Several people out there are doing it, just requires proper know-how and for one to be in tune with his metabolism.

[quote]AzCats wrote:

I see what your getting at here. It’s not always a calories in calories out thing. We all utilize proteins and fats differently as energy. [/quote]

This.

I also believe that novel supplements like I-3G, current state of the art nutritional products like casein hydrolysate and HBCD, and peri-workout intake plays a huge role in gaining muscle while reducing fat.

But nothing compares to AAS for this purpose. Those looking for the magic “natural” supplement to achieve certain goals are kidding themselves in my opinion (I also fell into this category). Simply change your perspective on what AAS and think of them as supplements. Bingo. You’ve found your magic bullet.

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:

[quote]AzCats wrote:

I see what your getting at here. It’s not always a calories in calories out thing. We all utilize proteins and fats differently as energy. [/quote]

This.

I also believe that novel supplements like I-3G, current state of the art nutritional products like casein hydrolysate and HBCD, and peri-workout intake plays a huge role in gaining muscle while reducing fat.

But nothing compares to AAS for this purpose. Those looking for the magic “natural” supplement to achieve certain goals are kidding themselves in my opinion (I also fell into this category). Simply change your perspective on what AAS and think of them as supplements. Bingo. You’ve found your magic bullet. [/quote]

let me guess… you’ve never used aas before

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:

[quote]AzCats wrote:

I see what your getting at here. It’s not always a calories in calories out thing. We all utilize proteins and fats differently as energy. [/quote]

This.

I also believe that novel supplements like I-3G, current state of the art nutritional products like casein hydrolysate and HBCD, and peri-workout intake plays a huge role in gaining muscle while reducing fat.

But nothing compares to AAS for this purpose. Those looking for the magic “natural” supplement to achieve certain goals are kidding themselves in my opinion (I also fell into this category). Simply change your perspective on what AAS and think of them as supplements. Bingo. You’ve found your magic bullet. [/quote]

let me guess… you’ve never used aas before[/quote]

Wrong guess.
Love 'em.

it seems it is possible building muscle while losing fat , look at

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_muscle_john_meadows/was_thinking_about_doing_this_what_do_you_guys_think

ok - so i am no expert . . . and i should probably stop there, but its the internets so here we go . . . .

caloric intake can vary greatly. you can get 4 calories for every ounce of protein, or 4 calories for every ouce of carbs or 9 calories for every ounce of fat (same principle applies to sugars as well). But your body is going to use that ounce of protein differently than it will use the carbs ounces or fat ounces. Protein (bein broken down in various useful bits for the body to build all of the tissues of the body from hair to nails to skin, etc - including muscle) is processed and utilized distinctly even though it has a caloric value. Carbs and fats are broken down and are either consumed by the body for immediate energy needs or stored for future energy needs.

So by choosing and managing your specific caloric intake by meal by percenatge from each source, you can time your caloric intake for the specific need - carbs before energy need for example, protein during/after workout for repair/replenish for another) . You can also balance the percentages favoring higher caloric intake from protein versus fewer calories from carbs/fats/sugars based on your individual metabolism.

So concluding - by managing your diet (bodybuilding begins in the kitchen) wisely - you can gain lean muscle mass. It is not simply a matter of caloric surplus - its about the right kind of caloric surplus and the right timing of those calories.

again - just my opinion (no expert here)