Saying steady state cardio is contraproductive is like saying masturbating is useless because you can have sex. IT’S A PRIVILEGE, NOT A LUXURY =D
[quote]youngblood52 wrote:
i dont play any sports, i am just looking to be “fit” in the general sense of having decent cardio
i decided that i am going to do skip lacour style 16 min High intensity cardio on saturday, and steady state for 30 min on sunday
each week i will try to increase either distance or speed
once i start becoming more fit, i will try hill sprints and regular sprints because i think those will have an added benefit of carrying over to my speed (not a primary goal but who wouldnt want to be faster???)
i tried to cover both anaerobic and aerobic cardio. i dont think one 30 min session of steady state is going to interfere with my bodybuilding. plus i think it will have health benefits and the article posed by MikeyKBiatch piqued my interest. later i will increase the 30 min to 60 min. i will eat so as not to lose weight
what you guys think of this plan?[/quote]
Training endurance and strength at the same time will hamper progress at both. This is, what I believe to be one of the major flaws of “general fitness training”. Thank God for periodization.
Conditioning is something every athlete should do regardless of sport. However, if your a fast twitch athlete, long distance running is not the best choice. Doing interval training, sledgehamer, sandbag,jump rope, etc… can enhance work capacity, which also can aid in overall recovery.
I myself have noticed improved posture from jumping rope for my conditioning, but alternate between sled dragging and occasional sprint work. Anything can work for conditioning, just start off easy with intensity and volume till your work capacity improves!!!
what do you guys think of boxing (i have a punching bag) for “rounds” (intervals)???
at least i would be able to throw a hard and fast punch
Three quick thoughts:
-
I would avoid working out both Saturday and Sunday, if you’re lifting 5x a week. You need to rest at some point. I would ride a good SPIN bike at the gym after your weight workout, and do sprints for 20 minutes. Keep it short and simple. That will keep your workouts contained to Monday-Friday.
-
I personally do hill sprints. I still play sports at 38, including competitve flag football, and I feel nothing helps you like hill sprints.
I have a long steep hill in my backyard that takes 25 seconds to get to the top. They are brutally effective, I’ve been doing them for years. I basically try to do as many as possible in 30 minutes…my record is 22. As long as I get somewhere around 17 or so I know I’m in shape. If I fall below 15 I know I’ve gotten out of shape. Like I said, brutal but effective.
- One other alternative is a good smooth rowing machine. I sometimes do 500-meter sprints on the one at the gym, they take around 2 minutes each. I try to do 5-6 of them. When I stand up when I’m done I’m dizzy and crushed…they’re pretty effective.
i used to swim and play waterpolo…
2 hours of treading and swimming, no stopping no walls to hold on to or no floor to stand on, gets tough esp when ur playing games and going all out, whole body workout and alot of fun.
I find playing sports the easiest way to do my conditioning. Granted this conditioning is sport specific, but nonetheless it carried over in real life, and esp. with swimming, aided in my recovery after a tough workout.
And its alot of fun. Plus the competitive side allows me to try and become better and better those around me.
Besides that, kettlebell conditioning, hill sprints, sled work, intreval training, all gud stuff
[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
A high level of conditioning can be attained through many different types of training. I try to condition 2 times a week. On the track, Interval sprints are great (walk 100/sprint 100 or any distance). Any sort of interval, suicides on a field, repeated hill sprints. Doing various drills on a football field like bear crawls, hops, sled pulls, etc. In the weight room, bodyweight exercises can make a great conditioning session.
Dumbbell or KB swings are great too. The tabata method is great (and only takes 4 minutes) and can be done with pretty much any exercise of your choice. Barbell Complexes for time are great too (I do a pretty killer one that I got from Parisi School that they do for MMA athletes). If you want any other info, just ask man. Hope this gets you going in the right direction. [/quote]
Tell me more about the Parisi School technique?
[quote]youngblood52 wrote:
what do you guys think of boxing (i have a punching bag) for “rounds” (intervals)???
at least i would be able to throw a hard and fast punch [/quote]
Heavy bag work is an incredible workout but it’s hard on your joints and can DEFINITELY interfere with lifting often. That’s why in the combat sports forum many of us are wary of anyone lifting more than three days a week if they’re seriously trying to box.
And hitting the bag doesn’t mean you’ll be able to throw a “hard and fast punch.” If you don’t know the technique, odds are you’ll just throw a bunch of flailing slaps and then be winded for a half hour.
And I also speak in favor of roadwork for conditioning. Thousands upon thousands of pro fighters can’t be wrong. Don’t leave it out- even a couple runs a week will be good for you if you’re looking to achieve a high level of conditioning.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
youngblood52 wrote:
what do you guys think of boxing (i have a punching bag) for “rounds” (intervals)???
at least i would be able to throw a hard and fast punch
Heavy bag work is an incredible workout but it’s hard on your joints and can DEFINITELY interfere with lifting often. That’s why in the combat sports forum many of us are wary of anyone lifting more than three days a week if they’re seriously trying to box.
And hitting the bag doesn’t mean you’ll be able to throw a “hard and fast punch.” If you don’t know the technique, odds are you’ll just throw a bunch of flailing slaps and then be winded for a half hour.
And I also speak in favor of roadwork for conditioning. Thousands upon thousands of pro fighters can’t be wrong. Don’t leave it out- even a couple runs a week will be good for you if you’re looking to achieve a high level of conditioning. [/quote]
Another good workout that won’t hurt the joints is SANDBAGS. It incorporates elements of lifting and will kick you ass. No impact and mimics CQC. Failing that, shadow boxing can be an excellent workout.
Running makes my knees hurt.
Maybe I missed it, and if I did, I apologize, but I still don’t see anywhere in this thread where the OP specified his conditioning goals, i.e. what he was trying to achieve. I just read general terms being thrown about without really being defined.
Also, I noted that he said he really isn’t concerned about fat loss. Even in general terms, I interpret conditioning to mean making yourself more efficient at whatever your endeavour is. How can you be more efficient without getting rid of excess fat? To paraphrase an old saying: “What good does it do you carry around 300 pounds of crap stuffed into a 200 pound bag?”
I primarily concentrate on anaerobic conditioning, since it seems to automatically make your aerobic conditiong better and is much easier on my joints than running long distances, which I hate. I kind of mix it up and use sandbags, kettlebells and sleds, right now.
lewhitehurst that is a good point.
you can do all kinds of stuff, but it depends on the training you do now,
and what you want.
prowler/sled work is excellent if you have the facilities or gear.
Probably some of the best work you can do.
If you where a large person in the 250 range low steady state cardio will do more then you think
when you are that size your metabolism burns allot of fuel to move even at a gentle pace.
this kind of stuff is good for recovery , keeping body fat at bay and blood pressure
but its tedious and kinda boring
sprinting is probably one of the best things you can do
and should not impact your BB style of training if you program them right.
do them on leg days- or your going to stall recovery
if you detest running- or dont want to do steady state work
BB complexes will take you to the puke zone every time.
Great thread, I have good anaerobics but I need to work on conditioning bad
Reduce the rest between sets… HIT style…
I can’t stand cardio, except for bicycle riding, but schedule rarely allows a decent ride…
Blood pressure is way down.
Went on long ride get other day after way too long without a ride and held up really well! Excellent speed, average, peak, arrived in decent shape. Rather surprised actually…
[quote]dankid wrote:
First step would be to drop the CARDIO.
Unless you are really fat, and really strong, cardio is somewhat counderproductive IMO.
Conditioning is a different thing all together though. The way the guys at westside and elitefts address conditioning is differnt than most others. Its considered GPP and work capacity. Read articles about it on both those sites, it will start to steer you in the right direction.
[/quote]
I take it you don’t Jeremy Frey’s log at elite. He frequently does 30-60 minutes of cardio at aerobic intensities.
[quote]OBoile wrote:
dankid wrote:
First step would be to drop the CARDIO.
Unless you are really fat, and really strong, cardio is somewhat counderproductive IMO.
Conditioning is a different thing all together though. The way the guys at westside and elitefts address conditioning is differnt than most others. Its considered GPP and work capacity. Read articles about it on both those sites, it will start to steer you in the right direction.
I take it you don’t Jeremy Frey’s log at elite. He frequently does 30-60 minutes of cardio at aerobic intensities.[/quote]
Nope. Cardio is teh evil. You can’t possibly be strong while doing cardio. All you need are complexes!
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Nope. Cardio is teh evil. You can’t possibly be strong while doing cardio. All you need are complexes!
[/quote]
That’s not true at all. Football players are some tremendously strong bastards, and they do cardio work.
Some boxers are very strong while still doing tremendous amounts of roadwork as well.
I get that you don’t like running, but there’s no reason to make sweeping generalizations that are simply untrue. It may not be OPTIMAL, but saying that you “can’t possibly be strong” is bullshit.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Nope. Cardio is teh evil. You can’t possibly be strong while doing cardio. All you need are complexes!
That’s not true at all. Football players are some tremendously strong bastards, and they do cardio work.
Some boxers are very strong while still doing tremendous amounts of roadwork as well.
I get that you don’t like running, but there’s no reason to make sweeping generalizations that are simply untrue. It may not be OPTIMAL, but saying that you “can’t possibly be strong” is bullshit. [/quote]
I should have thrown a [/sarcasm] tag in there…
If your sport has a significant aerobic component, I don’t know how you can NOT be doing aerobic training of some sort.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Nope. Cardio is teh evil. You can’t possibly be strong while doing cardio. All you need are complexes!
That’s not true at all. Football players are some tremendously strong bastards, and they do cardio work.
Some boxers are very strong while still doing tremendous amounts of roadwork as well.
I get that you don’t like running, but there’s no reason to make sweeping generalizations that are simply untrue. It may not be OPTIMAL, but saying that you “can’t possibly be strong” is bullshit.
I should have thrown a [/sarcasm] tag in there…
If your sport has a significant aerobic component, I don’t know how you can NOT be doing aerobic training of some sort.[/quote]
For what it is worth, I detected the sarcasm.
IMO there has been an overreaction against steady state cardio (as is common in this industry). If you’re lifting weights and eating, 30 minutes on the eliptical isn’t going to make you skinny or slow.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Nope. Cardio is teh evil. You can’t possibly be strong while doing cardio. All you need are complexes!
That’s not true at all. Football players are some tremendously strong bastards, and they do cardio work.
Some boxers are very strong while still doing tremendous amounts of roadwork as well.
I get that you don’t like running, but there’s no reason to make sweeping generalizations that are simply untrue. It may not be OPTIMAL, but saying that you “can’t possibly be strong” is bullshit.
I should have thrown a [/sarcasm] tag in there…
If your sport has a significant aerobic component, I don’t know how you can NOT be doing aerobic training of some sort.[/quote]
hahah ok.
Here is an interesting read that relates to this topic:
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=104174&tid=55