T Nation

Build Muscle & Lose Fat

I ran across this article by Kelly Baggett in regards to recomposition. Anyone tried anything like this, or have any thoughts? Curious as to its efficacy. I would expect it would work, just that the transformation would take longer.

Look, I can sit around all day and write programs that have a intuitive appeal to people who have never trained hard and thus don’t know I’m full of shit. This is called taking advantage of people, and it’s something very common in the industry. Articles that claim to allow a person to build muscle and gain fat simultaneously are the equivalent of the “Hollywood diet” - gimmicks if not outright scams.

Whenever an author makes such claims, I simply ask for ten before and after pictures of people who followed the program. By the way, if you ever want to piss off a “guru,” ask for before and after pics. You would be surprised at how many people who have never actually trained people write articles. They will also usually come up with an excuse like, “Well, it’s not my fault people don’t follow my programs.”

While the author of the article you cite is actually quite knowledgeable, I am 100% certain he cannot marshal real-world evidence supporting the “theories” espoused in his article. Like everyone else, he needs to come up with something “different” in order to draw attention to himself. Hence, an article claiming that someone who is not a beginner can gain appreciable (appreciable is the operative word) amounts of muscle while losing fat.

Newbies can at first,and while you can do it when you’re not a newbie,its not gonna happen real fast on the fat loss or muscle gain unless you’re a genetic freak or taking boatloads of steriods.Its much better to focus on one goal at a time while eating for better health no matter what your goals are.

[quote]Dark_Knight wrote:
I ran across this article by Kelly Baggett in regards to recomposition. Anyone tried anything like this, or have any thoughts? Curious as to its efficacy. I would expect it would work, just that the transformation would take longer.


[/quote]

Regardless what other people might say I believe you can build muscle and burn fat at the same time. The only time I’ve had it happen is when I’ve gotten back in the gym after being away for a while. The problem is that you don’t go far doing this and at a certain point you have to go one way or the other. I’ve read from Dr. “Squat” Hatfield you could cut 2 weeks bulk 2 weeks and zig zag your way there, but I never heard of any one doing this.

Yeah, like other’s have said, if you are relatively untrained it’s fairly common.

As your level of training rises it gets more difficult… as the simple easy adjustments have already happened.

Basically, anyone can get results with a newbie, just by getting them into a gym and eating protein. For example, some people, due to consistent undereating for “weight” control, are just primed to gain some muscle weight if they start eating well.

http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=52856&tid=124

I guess Dave Tate is a newbie. Tell yourself you can’t do something or tell yourself you can. You’ll be right both times.

I’ve definitely gained muscle while losing fat, but that was only when I had fat on me and I reduced BF while putting on muscle and my weight stayed constant. What I have NOT been able to do is add pure lean mass. I am now at like <10% bf and I can’t seem to gain muscle at all without fat too.

So I think it works but only for a short time. That time I gained muscle while cutting off fat only worked for about 6 weeks and I was doing a crazy HF plan with 6-8 full body workouts a week where I POURED sweat each workout. However, all my lifts went up between 10-15% and I lost a lot of fat.

If its going to happen i dont think you should be doing what you USUALLY do. Your going to have to put your body through something its just going to have to change for. It can happen, but you cant count on it.

I find it funny pointing at Dave Tate, the guys not normal. He is a world class athlete, with a huge foundation in strength that made major changes to his routines to things he probably hasnt done in a long time. Im sure he wasnt expecting it either.

I like JB’s comments of GFLUX for this example. Dave Tate and i could go on a diet with the same calorie deficit, but his raw size, strength, workouts, etc would create an entirely different metabolic environment then mine. Again, his not normal person. His workout are certainly not normal.

Do what you gotta do and if it happens, then good for you.

[quote]nikolo wrote:
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=52856&tid=124

I guess Dave Tate is a newbie. Tell yourself you can’t do something or tell yourself you can. You’ll be right both times.[/quote]

Henry Ford, I take it you don’t read Dave Tate’s blog regularly? That, or you just have a very poor memory. In any event, Tate was starting back after a long layoff:
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=50212&tid=124

Yes, it’s possible for newbies and people returning to the gym after a while to gain muscle and lose fat. No one has ever said otherwise. What was said was that a person who is not a newbie (you can put coming back into training after a long layoff) isn’t going to gain appreciable amounts of muscle while losing fat.

If you think otherwise, please post before and after photos (not of newbies or people who are returning to serious training after an injury or time off for other reasons) showing otherwise.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
nikolo wrote:
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=52856&tid=124

I guess Dave Tate is a newbie. Tell yourself you can’t do something or tell yourself you can. You’ll be right both times.

Henry Ford, I take it you don’t read Dave Tate’s blog regularly? That, or you just have a very poor memory. In any event, Tate was starting back after a long layoff:
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=50212&tid=124

Yes, it’s possible for newbies and people returning to the gym after a while to gain muscle and lose fat. No one has ever said otherwise. What was said was that a person who is not a newbie (you can put coming back into training after a long layoff) isn’t going to gain appreciable amounts of muscle while losing fat.

If you think otherwise, please post before and after photos (not of newbies or people who are returning to serious training after an injury or time off for other reasons) showing otherwise.[/quote]

I didn’t realize Tate was coming back from a long lay off. Do you have a link to his stats prior to the lay off?

Sorry, I don’t have a polaroid collection for you to peruse. You’re the first to mention appreciable amounts of muscle while losing fat. What do you define appreciable as? The OP was asking about the efficacy of what Baggett lays out in the article.

“When it comes to adding muscle keep in mind, if one were to hold fat levels constant yet add muscle mass their relative bodyfat %'s would go down which is an ideal state.” This was taken from Baggett’s article. He doesn’t make any outlandish claims. The diet from the article is very similar to Thibadeau’s Carb Cycling Codex in which he makes a similar claim as Baggett. No “Hollywood Diet” outlandishness to be found.

Nice pick up on the Henry Ford quote. I even paraphrased it and you still got it.

Sheesh.
Spirited debate.
Ultimately, yes, of course it is possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.

Now the larger question is how can you gain the MOST muscle and lose the MOST fat?

By focusing on one or the other.

Who are the people who are most desperate to gain the most muscle and lose the most fat they can…who’s JOB and livelihood it is to do so? Bodybuilders.

And they all pretty much do the same thing and have done the same thing for decades.
Mass cycle. Cutting cycle.

And another word to the wise.
Watch out for that website and their contributors.
You would not believe the unqualified dickheads they have writing those articles.

Not speaking of that particular author…but watch out.

[quote]sven33 wrote:
And another word to the wise.
Watch out for that website and their contributors.
You would not believe the unqualified dickheads they have writing those articles.
[/quote]

Absolutely… one piece I recall from some guy on there said it is a good idea to pair high carbs with high fats. Uh-oh.

[quote]Dark_Knight wrote:
sven33 wrote:
And another word to the wise.
Watch out for that website and their contributors.
You would not believe the unqualified dickheads they have writing those articles.

Absolutely… one piece I recall from some guy on there said it is a good idea to pair high carbs with high fats. Uh-oh.

[/quote]

Kelley Baggett is pretty smart. The program he outlined in that article is for someone who wants to improve their body composition and doesn’t already have a ton of muscle mass. What’s wrong with that?

[quote]WillNC wrote:
Dark_Knight wrote:
sven33 wrote:
And another word to the wise.
Watch out for that website and their contributors.
You would not believe the unqualified dickheads they have writing those articles.

Absolutely… one piece I recall from some guy on there said it is a good idea to pair high carbs with high fats. Uh-oh.

Kelley Baggett is pretty smart. The program he outlined in that article is for someone who wants to improve their body composition and doesn’t already have a ton of muscle mass. What’s wrong with that?
[/quote]

Nothing’s wrong. That was not a dig at him, just the “unqualified dickheads.” He is not one of those.