Build Mass With 6 Day Split

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]tora no’ shi wrote:

…i will tell you this though, it’s not so much the split but the mindset…every single day i raise the weight/reps on at least one exercise, with no exeptions…sick, tired, whatever…it gets done…

…it’s not for veryone, but i love this…i love beign in the gym, i love lifting weights and testing myself…it can and will work if you do it right, good luck on whatever you choose to do…[/quote]

Truer words were never spoken. If you bust your ass you will see results. End of discussion.

22

Kehaya, I do not shoot flaming arrows at any serious poster. I am openly very critical of that practice on this site by a bunch of what one can only label as internet tough guys or, at best, sycophants.

My post was the best no BS advice you will get about your proposed switch in workout techniques. If you want to build muscle, frequency is what counts, not trying to jam as much into one day as is possible and then resting for 6 days. Especially on smaller muscles such as biceps or triceps. Frequency is best for hypertrophy.

Many article writers on this site have read the recent research and translated it into sample programs that most muscleheads can understand. However, habit is very hard for some to break. They rationalize it by thinking that will lose what they haven’t gained the last 10 years by doing something new. That is like the guy who hides in his office all day, never offers advise on potential improvements and wonders why ipromotions are passing him by.

I could go on and site the studies behind this but I won’t do your work for you. If you ever want to understand why muscles actually grow, go to PubMed or hypertrophy research sites and read the results of what tremendous strides have been made in the last 3 years in understanding hypertrophy. Then you will have a base of knowledge so that you can evaluate statements such as “frequency only works for beginners” or HD is what works best and not be sucked into a program that won’t work as well as what you were doing previously.

Good luck in whatever route you go.

23

[quote]tora no’ shi wrote:
i have been on a 6 day split for a bit now, and the least i’ve ever done was five days…and that’s how i’ve built myself up from 190 to 270 in a couple years…

here’s my current split…

mon- triceps and legs
tuesday - off
wed.- delts and chest
thursday - back/(biceps)*
friday - (biceps)*/legs
saturday - chest
sunday - back

*i try get biceps in on thursday with back, but it’s usually too late and end up doing them on friday

…i will tell you this though, it’s not so much the split but the mindset…every single day i raise the weight/reps on at least one exercise, with no exeptions…sick, tired, whatever…it gets done…

…it’s not for veryone, but i love this…i love beign in the gym, i love lifting weights and testing myself…it can and will work if you do it right, good luck on whatever you choose to do…[/quote]

Thank you for the great post, and for posting your workout. I 100% agree about the dedication and hard work. It is what pulled me into lifting, along with my father having a heart attack. I have never seen something as pure as weight training. Like you said, if you work your ass off, and eat right, you WILL see the result.
Not many things in life are like that…

Great info and motivation guys. More comments anyone?
Thank You.

24

[quote]Avoids Roids wrote:
Kehaya, I do not shoot flaming arrows at any serious poster. I am openly very critical of that practice on this site by a bunch of what one can only label as internet tough guys or, at best, sycophants.

My post was the best no BS advice you will get about your proposed switch in workout techniques. If you want to build muscle, frequency is what counts, not trying to jam as much into one day as is possible and then resting for 6 days. Especially on smaller muscles such as biceps or triceps. Frequency is best for hypertrophy.

Many article writers on this site have read the recent research and translated it into sample programs that most muscleheads can understand. However, habit is very hard for some to break. They rationalize it by thinking that will lose what they haven’t gained the last 10 years by doing something new. That is like the guy who hides in his office all day, never offers advise on potential improvements and wonders why ipromotions are passing him by.

I could go on and site the studies behind this but I won’t do your work for you. If you ever want to understand why muscles actually grow, go to PubMed or hypertrophy research sites and read the results of what tremendous strides have been made in the last 3 years in understanding hypertrophy. Then you will have a base of knowledge so that you can evaluate statements such as “frequency only works for beginners” or HD is what works best and not be sucked into a program that won’t work as well as what you were doing previously.

Good luck in whatever route you go.[/quote]

Wow, you went from a 1 liner, 2 a great detailed response. Sorry to jump to the conclusion you were trying to flame. Your post just lacked some direction, as to why I would not see results, but I see what you are saying.

I guess I still have a lot of reading and learning to do.

With that said, I want to change things up, but maybe I should try to be a bit smarter about my choice. I hate starting something, and not finishing it. On the other hand, I really want to see how my body will react to a 4, 5, or 6 day split, as I have never training that way.

Thank You for your post.

25

[quote]Avoids Roids wrote:

My post was the best no BS advice you will get about your proposed switch in workout techniques. If you want to build muscle, frequency is what counts, not trying to jam as much into one day as is possible and then resting for 6 days. Especially on smaller muscles such as biceps or triceps. Frequency is best for hypertrophy.

Many article writers on this site have read the recent research and translated it into sample programs that most muscleheads can understand. However, habit is very hard for some to break. They rationalize it by thinking that will lose what they haven’t gained the last 10 years by doing something new. That is like the guy who hides in his office all day, never offers advise on potential improvements and wonders why ipromotions are passing him by.

[/quote]

Avoids Roids,

Good job explaining your stance, but I still have to disagree.

True, many articles written on this site have outlined some fantastic full-body, higher frequency training. However, these programs just haven’t proven to be otpimal, in my own experience, for maximum muscular growth.

I’ve tried many different approaches to lifting, and gotten many different results. The current poster, however, is most interested in gaining maximum hypertrophy from his next training cycle.

I’m just not sure how you can say that he should be doing something other than what has been proven in the real-world to produce the greatest muscular growth.

Do you have personal proof that these full body workouts have given you huge muscles? If not, I could provide you with the top 20 physiques or so that are a product of bodypart splits, and you could try to find the top 20 physiques that are a product of full-body routines, and we could compare muscularity.

Not trying to be stand-offish at all, and I’m well aware of the science behind lifting, I just have seen the exact opposite of what you’re arguing for occur in the real-world of lifting results.

26

[quote]Avoids Roids wrote:
Frequency is best for hypertrophy.
[/quote]

hypertrophy has more to do with over-all volume than frequency, although frequency is an important factor…

distance runners/bicylcists train with high frequency but are skinny at shit, so why should frequency by itself be considered what is best for hypertrophy?

volume (loading parameters) along with ideal frequency (enough time in between workouts to recover, but not so much time that someone undertrains) and intensity (lifting suitably heavy weights) are the three most important factors hypertrophy success (well, along with getting adequite food and rest)…

ideal frequency depends on age, training age (what level of trainee are you: beginner, intermediate, advanced), nutritional strategy (or lack of), rest/recuperation, life schedule (how much a person works, what kind of work do they do), etc…

depending on the above criteria different people will respond best to different volume, intensity, frequency…

for instance, some people will respond best training bench (chest and triceps) once a week, some people will respond best if they train bench three times a week or two times a week or even every ten days…THERE IS NO MAGIC ONE SIZE FITS ALL TRAINING METHODOLOGY!

bullshit…

many guru writers on this site are dogmatic shit-talkers wrapping themselves in a fancy cloak of the latest science mumbo-jumbo that another scientist will ‘disprove’ in another year or two…

I’ve seen it happen time and time again in the lifting/fitness community over the last twenty-four years…that’s exactly what’s happening now with all the ‘full-body is the only way’ band-wagoners and their mindless followers…

do full-body schemes work? sure…

are full-body schemes optimal for everyone? fuck no…

I thought a little about this…

I think I should make a revision to my above statements…

top level distance bicyclists have very high over-all volume, high frequency training, and take plenty of AAS, and eat massive quantities of food…so why the hell are they so damn skinny (even their legs look damn toothpick like)? simple, their intensity (amount of weight/resistance) is very low…

so the most important factor for muscle hypertrophy must be intensity (using heavy weights)…obviously volume, frequency, hormonal levels, rest/recuperation, nutritional strategy, are all important factor as well, but intensity (lifting progressively heavier and heavier weights) seems to be most important of all if large muscles are your goal…

anyways, just trying to use both my brains cells at the same time…

27

[quote]Avoids Roids wrote:
What you propose is great if you want to slow your gains down.[/quote]

sais who?

i have in the past when not competing for a meet or a games, done a single body part a day split, and put on tons of mass doing so.

i am pretty much doing this now since my strength athlete days are now done, i have been doing pretty much bodybuilding.

i am putting on a LOT of mass right now.

28

No affense to everyone on here but no matter what you post it is all opinion and what has worked for you. The majority of the people on this site are intermediate lifters. I don’t know if any are doing shows or comps. Exercise programs are individualized.

Just remember, do what feels best for you, don’t stick with the same routine for long periods of time, increase your weight so no periodization (becomes stagment), and remember reps don’t matter!! You can do any many reps as you want but unless the muscle is under tension it won’t make a difference. Time under tension is the key phrase you want to apply here.

[quote]Bauer97 wrote:
Avoids Roids wrote:

My post was the best no BS advice you will get about your proposed switch in workout techniques. If you want to build muscle, frequency is what counts, not trying to jam as much into one day as is possible and then resting for 6 days. Especially on smaller muscles such as biceps or triceps. Frequency is best for hypertrophy.

Many article writers on this site have read the recent research and translated it into sample programs that most muscleheads can understand. However, habit is very hard for some to break. They rationalize it by thinking that will lose what they haven’t gained the last 10 years by doing something new. That is like the guy who hides in his office all day, never offers advise on potential improvements and wonders why ipromotions are passing him by.

Avoids Roids,

Good job explaining your stance, but I still have to disagree.

True, many articles written on this site have outlined some fantastic full-body, higher frequency training. However, these programs just haven’t proven to be otpimal, in my own experience, for maximum muscular growth.

I’ve tried many different approaches to lifting, and gotten many different results. The current poster, however, is most interested in gaining maximum hypertrophy from his next training cycle.

I’m just not sure how you can say that he should be doing something other than what has been proven in the real-world to produce the greatest muscular growth.

Do you have personal proof that these full body workouts have given you huge muscles? If not, I could provide you with the top 20 physiques or so that are a product of bodypart splits, and you could try to find the top 20 physiques that are a product of full-body routines, and we could compare muscularity.

Not trying to be stand-offish at all, and I’m well aware of the science behind lifting, I just have seen the exact opposite of what you’re arguing for occur in the real-world of lifting results.[/quote]

29

The best response I saw was:

ideal frequency depends on age, training age (what level of trainee are you: beginner, intermediate, advanced), nutritional strategy (or lack of), rest/recuperation, life schedule (how much a person works, what kind of work do they do), etc…

Very, very true. One should experiment to see what works best for THEM. In GENERAL, however, science has shown that protein synthesis declines after 48 hours. Therefore, working a muscle once per week will likely have 2 days of benefit and 5 days of going backward, albeit at a slower pace which accounts for the fact that some muscle growth will still occur. However, depending on your genetic makeup, it may not be the IDEAL way to build muscle. That is up to each individual to determine but many people are afraid to experiment because they may lose out on some muscle building time.

Additionally, the ideal training program and diet will still not make you look like today’s pros. For that you need synthetic help.

I have no problem is someone says that once every week or two weeks works best for them. I just hope that they have determined that from a range of experiences and not just because some big guy says it is so.

Train smart.

30

[quote]Avoids Roids wrote:

Very, very true. One should experiment to see what works best for THEM. In GENERAL, however, science has shown that protein synthesis declines after 48 hours. Therefore, working a muscle once per week will likely have 2 days of benefit and 5 days of going backward, albeit at a slower pace which accounts for the fact that some muscle growth will still occur. However, depending on your genetic makeup, it may not be the IDEAL way to build muscle.
[/quote]

in addition, the 48 hour protein synthesis rule does not take CNS recovery into account…

someones muscles may be ready, but their CNS may be shot to shit…

making optimal gains is indeed a very complex issue…

31

Very true, but hypertrophy, which I interpret the questioner to be asking about when he refers to mass,is not dependent on neural recovery. For hypertrophy, you can train thru DOMS. It will not hinder your gains. Obviously strength training is dependent on neural recovery though.

I have found over the last half century of lifting, that, for me, once per week works best for strength gains. 3-4 times per week for sheer hypertrophy. And 2 times per week for a bit, but perhaps not the best, of both worlds.

Recent peer reviewed scientific tests and papers seem to support what I intuitively came to realize by being willing to experiment and try new things. Since I am not a genetic freak, the scientific back up gives me enough comfort to generalize those findings. However, that absolutely does not mean it is what every person will find as his best results orientated program.

Be flexible. Be open-minded. Be willing to experiment to find what works BEST for you even if you have been doing 1 bodypart per day per week for the last umpteen years and have seen some nice gains.

In other words, train smart with a clear view of what it is you want to accomplish.

If someone takes umbrage at that approach, there is nothing I can do or say to change their mind.

32

To the OP,

Personally, I’ve found 6-day splits to be very effective in building mass provided you have enough rest and enough food during the day (This, I cannot stress enough).

For an example of the body part splits, exercises and other training parameters that I follow, have a look at Thibs “The Gironda System” article. There is a 9 weeks exercise template provided, where you can pretty much tweak to your liking.

Give it a go and see what works for you.

Hope that helps.
bV

33

I think if your looking for gains in size I would go with a 5 or 6 day split. I think for an individual who is looking for size to be his primary goal its the best approach. My own split looks like this

Monday:Hamstrings/Calves
Tuesday:Chest/Triceps
Wednesday:Back
Thursday:Shoulders
Friday:Biceps
Saturday:Quads/Calves

I’ve been doing this for a while now and as long as I’m getting enough calories and sleep I’ve been gaining fine. With that being said I’ve had issues with recovery while I was on the AD(having a certain bodypart being soar for more than 3 or 4 days) but since reintroducing carbs I’ve been fine.

34

Personally my best mass gains were on split, once every 5to7 days split.

It’s been a while I’ve done that. I want to get to back to it in a way, but I’m training with others and doing weird outdoor exercices, MMA training etc.

What I found the hardest “leaving the confort of splits” is that I had developped a feel for how I had to push or not push, while with more whole body training I found it hard to know my limits.

Remember that even if you beleive frequency is so important, a split routine doesnt really isolate the muscles. For instance shoulders and arms in particular get trained on every upper body sessions. Running and sprints train the lower body.

I like Chad HFT workouts, but CT’s HSS are more traditional BB split routines and get good feedback too. My guess is if you’ve been training with a whole body approach for a while, trying something new will bring you new gains and bring back enthusiasm. And if doesnt work, go back to what you were doing!

35

[quote]SwD wrote:
Personally my best mass gains were on split, once every 5to7 days split.

It’s been a while I’ve done that. I want to get to back to it in a way, but I’m training with others and doing weird outdoor exercices, MMA training etc.

What I found the hardest “leaving the confort of splits” is that I had developped a feel for how I had to push or not push, while with more whole body training I found it hard to know my limits.

Remember that even if you beleive frequency is so important, a split routine doesnt really isolate the muscles. For instance shoulders and arms in particular get trained on every upper body sessions. Running and sprints train the lower body.

I like Chad HFT workouts, but CT’s HSS are more traditional BB split routines and get good feedback too. My guess is if you’ve been training with a whole body approach for a while, trying something new will bring you new gains and bring back enthusiasm. And if doesnt work, go back to what you were doing![/quote]

good post.

i agree. remember, we never really “isolate” a muscle. your delts and tri’s are getting worked hard when you do chest, especially if you do any sort of pressing, your bicepts and rear delts get hit during back work, etc. i drag my sled and or use the prowler 2-4 days a week, which hits my legs. heck, when i do heavy barbell curls(first time ever in my training “career” that i have ever focused on biceps) i feel them(heavy barbell curls) in my upper back and traps.

36

[quote]powerlftr71 wrote:
I think this would be a good 5 day split.It was designed by Dave Tate.
The goals of this phase are to build lean body mass and increase base strength. By base strength I do not mean overall 1rm strength. The goal is to get stronger on all movements in the HI-LV and MI-MV sessions not just the main movements. To do this I will need to pull in more high intensity and max effort work (heavy weighs for lower reps). These sessions have been increased over what they were from the last phase so I will have to go by feel to make sure I do not beat the hell out of myself.

This is much different than a full blown powerlifting program and should not be used as such. When the goal to to increase the squat, bench and deadlift the focus needs to be placed on the movements, not the muscles. This program is designed to be placed on the muscles. So this is more about getting “Full Yoked” then pure strength.

I want to make sure to point this out so people will not think this will make their powerlifts stronger. There are far better ways to do this.

I have also spent the last 6 months working on my training volume so if any of you are thinking of doing this then you may want to drop some of the movements out of the program. I am not posting this so you can print it off and use it yourself. The parameters and movements have been selected for my own individual needs. I am posting this so you can see the process of the program and how the template is designed.

With this program there are two things rotating. The movement patterns (listed as muscle groups to make it easier to follow) and the training parameters. The movements or training days flow on a 5 day split repeating after the last day. The only exception is every Tuesday will be a training day off. The parameters (volume and intensity) flow on a four day split. The reason for this is recovery based plus it allows for more heavy days during the phase.

Because of the high number of HI-LV days a few changes will be made. First my kcals will be increased as well as protein (I will post this later after I get some things verified). Second, I will keep the BCAA’s in the diet between 75-100 grams per day. This helped with recovery when the calories and carbs were low so I am very interested to see what will happen now that I will be in better nutritional state. Third and most important, I will have have to gauge my recovery and use bail outs when necessary. This means if a HI-LV days rolls around and I am drained and beat up then the day will shift to a MI-MV day. If I feel like a train wreck then three off days will be put in place of the next three sessions and the rotation will begin after the break.

Training Split

Day 1 - hamstrings and lower back . traps

session HI - LV (high intensity - low volume)
Some type of ME deadlift or Good Morning
Barbell shrugs
GHR

session MI - MV (moderate intensity - moderate volume)
RDL
Lying Leg Curls
Band Leg Curls
Reverse Hypes
DB Shrugs
Machine Shrugs

session LI - HV (low intensity - high volume)
Pull Through
Standing Leg Curls
GHR
One Leg Lying Leg Curls
45 Degree Back Raises
Seated DB shrugs
Vertical Cable Shrugs
One Arm Front Band Shrugs

Day 2 - back, biceps

session HI - LV
Barbell Rows
Chins
Barbell Curls

session MI - MV
Pull Downs
Low Rows
DB Rows
DB Curls
Drag Curls

session LI - HV
Biangular Pull Downs
Supported Seated Rows
DD Pull Downs
Prone DB Rows
Seated Hammer Curls
Machine Curls
Cable Curls

Day 3 - chest, triceps

session HI - LV
Some type of ME Pressing
JM Presses
Band Push Downs (for reps)
Machine Flies (for reps)

session MI - MV
Flat DB Presses
Machine Presses
GHR Flies
Cable Flies
DB Extensions
Pushdowns

session LI - HV
Incline DB Presses
Close Grip Pin Presses with Bands
Machine Flies
Machine Cable Flies
Close Grip Barbell Walking Pushups
Rope Pushdowns
1/4 dips

Day 4 - quads, calves

session HI - LV
Close Stance Squats
Power Squat Machine
Seated Calve Raise

session MI - MV
Belt Squats
Leg Presses
leg Extensions
Lunges
Standing Calve Raise
Seated Calve Raise

session LI - HV
Box Squats (speed work)
Split Squats
Lunges
One Leg Leg Presses
Leg Extensions
Seated Calve Raise
Standing Calve Raise
One Leg Calve Raises

Day 5 - delts, abs

session HI - LV
Chest Supported Log Presses
Prone DB Rear Delt Raises
Hanging Leg Raise
Pull Down Abs

session MI - MV
Side DB Raises
Barbell Front Raises
Rear Delt Machine
Rear Delt Cable Pulls
Lying Leg Raises
45 Degree Side Raise
Swis Ball Sit Ups

session LI - HV
Supported Rear Delt Raises
One Arm Rear Delt Machine
One Arm Cable Side Raises
Spud Strap Front Raises
Shoulder Complex
Standing Band Torso Series
Floor Torso Series

Repeat rotation with Day 1 on Day 6

***Take off every Tuesday

Session Parameters

Session HI - LV
This is the heavy day. Movements for all groups are one to two with reps ranging for 1-5. Rest is once again based on how I feel. Principles used are any all max effort methods. I may still add in some light rep work at the end of the session if I feel I need more work. If ME work is not an option because of injury or any other reason then all work sets will be take to failure and beyond. Weight to be increased with each session

Session MI - MV
This is basically normal training. Movements for large groups are 3-4, small groups 2-3. Rep ranges are 8-10 with the last set being a bust ass all out effort. Rest is based on when I feel ready to go. Other principle used include rest pause, drop sets, and messing with different training speeds. If I feel beat up I will slow the speed down to keep the weight light. I usually try to break rep records on all the movements I do. Weight and/or reps to be increased with each session.

Session LI - HV
The main muscles groups will be trained with 4-6 movements with sub groups trained with 3-4 movements. The rep range will be between 12-15 with rest periods around 45 seconds. I actually base the reps on my HR instead of time. The loading would be considered light. Some of the other principles I will using during this session are double sets, super sets and lactic acid tolerance training. This is also when any dynamic work will be done. Reps to be increased with each session. First weights selected should fall in the 10 rep range and build from there.

Session Rotation

Day 1 - HI-LV

Day 2 - Mi-MV

Day 3 - HI - LV

Day 4 - LI-HV

repeat cycle with Day 1 on Day 5

[/quote]

i may give this a try, though i pretty much rotate volume and intensity by feel nowdays. if i feel good and healthy, i go heavy, if i feel beat up, i do HV/LI.

37

Insane Post guys!

Great info. I’m very glad I posted the question, as it really got me thinking…

38

How about this, stop reading all the back and forth shit. One guy will bet his nuts on a full body workout being better and others will tell you to read all the articles written on both or swear by a split. I say fuck that and do your own thing. Just because something works for one person doesnt mean it will work for another.

This game is about trial and error. You have been doing one thing for awhile, now try another. For me personally, a split has worked great. Just do a 5-6 day split, stick with it for a few months, see what happens and adjust accordingly if necessary.

You mentioned something about your arms being a weak point. I think you should either train your bi’s and tri’s together and throw in an extra rest day. If you lift with enough intensity, you are going to need it.

Or if you want to address the arms issue, throw in some tri and bi work on your shoulder and back day respectively and then still have a sixth day on which you train arms.

Good luck and train hard.

A

[quote]Kehaya wrote:
Insane Post guys!

Great info. I’m very glad I posted the question, as it really got me thinking…

[/quote]

39

[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
Or if you want to address the arms issue, throw in some tri and bi work on your shoulder and back day respectively and then still have a sixth day on which you train arms.

Good luck and train hard.

A
[/quote]

This has worked very well for me. My arms have always been more of a weak point for me, but I have been able to bring them up by doing the 8-10 sets of bi’s on back day and 8-10 sets of tri’s on shoulder or chest day, and then having a seperate day in which I do 12-15 sets for bi’s and tri’s.