T Nation

Budgeting Your Supps, What Would You Take?

Just curious…if you had a ~$100 budget each month for supplements, what would you take?
Right now, I am in a situation where I value my recovery the most so I am taking;
Curcumin, Flameout, ZMA and Metabolic Drive

What gets you the most for your buck?

You pretty much nailed my staples. Been relying on Met Drive and Flameouts for the last decade, and see no reason to ever ditch 'em. If $100 was my limit, I’d load up on those. Obviously competing athletes need to cover all their bases and can ring up a higher monthly tab.

S

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
You pretty much nailed my staples. Been relying on Met Drive and Flameouts for the last decade, and see no reason to ever ditch 'em. If $100 was my limit, I’d load up on those. Obviously competing athletes need to cover all their bases and can ring up a higher monthly tab.

S[/quote]

Mighty Stu - good to know I’m in line with a guy whose obviously on top of things! What’s your thoughts on fat burners? If you have your diet and nutrition under control, do you take to help with burning fat or do you take to provide more energy while cutting calories?

“Bodybuilding” supps:
-whey protein: just in case I need to get in extra protein.
-creatine monohydrate: a lot of ergogenic benefits (just look at the JISSN stand on this)

General health supps:
-fish oil: cardiovascular health, joint health, help control asthma alongside normal meds
-vitamin D: I live in the North of England, so there isn’t much sun in the winter months

Happily, most of these supps are cheap!

Curcumin is estrogenic: http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/turmeric

[quote]hughgrection wrote:
Just curious…if you had a ~$100 budget each month for supplements, what would you take?
Right now, I am in a situation where I value my recovery the most so I am taking;
Curcumin, Flameout, ZMA and Metabolic Drive

What gets you the most for your buck?[/quote]
Looks like a solid list, but some kind of workout nutrition a huge bang-for-buck supp in terms of recovery. Metabolic Drive is great for an everyday protein, but before, during, and/or after training you can reduce DOMS to practically zero with dedicated workout nutrition.

[quote]seekonk wrote:
Curcumin is estrogenic: http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/turmeric [/quote]
Already discussed in a thread a few months ago:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/curcumin_and_estrogen

Essentially a non-issue, especially considering the numerous benefits.

[quote]hughgrection wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
You pretty much nailed my staples. Been relying on Met Drive and Flameouts for the last decade, and see no reason to ever ditch 'em. If $100 was my limit, I’d load up on those. Obviously competing athletes need to cover all their bases and can ring up a higher monthly tab.

S[/quote]

Mighty Stu - good to know I’m in line with a guy whose obviously on top of things! What’s your thoughts on fat burners? If you have your diet and nutrition under control, do you take to help with burning fat or do you take to provide more energy while cutting calories?[/quote]

I think they have their place after diet and training are squared away, but aside from a few truly helpful ingredients usually present, I find that they’re best used to overcome the bit of lethargy that a hard dieting individual will no doubt encounter.

While I used to be a big fan of HOT-ROX, they’re sadly not allowed under the WNBF ‘banned substance’ list. I’ve enjoyed a product called Meltdown, but eventually just started buying what I believe were the effective ingredients individually, which turned out to be not only much cheaper, but allowed me to get the amounts that I wanted.

Sorry for the slight derail!

S

[quote]Consul wrote:
“Bodybuilding” supps:
-whey protein: just in case I need to get in extra protein.
-creatine monohydrate: a lot of ergogenic benefits (just look at the JISSN stand on this)

General health supps:
-fish oil: cardiovascular health, joint health, help control asthma alongside normal meds
-vitamin D: I live in the North of England, so there isn’t much sun in the winter months

Happily, most of these supps are cheap![/quote]

I’m thinking of adding Vit D as I’m in Canada and our winters are known to last a bit longer - do you notice a difference at all when you are on or off the Vit D?

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]hughgrection wrote:
Just curious…if you had a ~$100 budget each month for supplements, what would you take?
Right now, I am in a situation where I value my recovery the most so I am taking;
Curcumin, Flameout, ZMA and Metabolic Drive

What gets you the most for your buck?[/quote]
Looks like a solid list, but some kind of workout nutrition a huge bang-for-buck supp in terms of recovery. Metabolic Drive is great for an everyday protein, but before, during, and/or after training you can reduce DOMS to practically zero with dedicated workout nutrition.

[quote]seekonk wrote:
Curcumin is estrogenic: http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/turmeric [/quote]
Already discussed in a thread a few months ago:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/curcumin_and_estrogen

Essentially a non-issue, especially considering the numerous benefits.[/quote]

What are you using for workout nutrition? I had trouble getting my carbs right for this - felt like i was adding too many (even if it was just surge or surge recovery). Made me feel like taking a nap as soon as workout was over and I didn’t like the soft weight gain. After trying for years to gain weight I think I may have made myself a bit carb intolerant - might be in my head but I can basically put myself to sleep just by eating a sandwich.

Curcumin has been a great add in.

Whenever I feel like hiking my estrogen, I just eat soy…viola! Good bye sex drive!

[quote]hughgrection wrote:

[quote]Consul wrote:
“Bodybuilding” supps:
-whey protein: just in case I need to get in extra protein.
-creatine monohydrate: a lot of ergogenic benefits (just look at the JISSN stand on this)

General health supps:
-fish oil: cardiovascular health, joint health, help control asthma alongside normal meds
-vitamin D: I live in the North of England, so there isn’t much sun in the winter months

Happily, most of these supps are cheap![/quote]

I’m thinking of adding Vit D as I’m in Canada and our winters are known to last a bit longer - do you notice a difference at all when you are on or off the Vit D?[/quote]

I don’t notice anything, really - but I take it as a long term health investment. Though, I’m actually getting a blood test to check my vitamin D levels; it may be that I need to take more vitamin D.

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]hughgrection wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
You pretty much nailed my staples. Been relying on Met Drive and Flameouts for the last decade, and see no reason to ever ditch 'em. If $100 was my limit, I’d load up on those. Obviously competing athletes need to cover all their bases and can ring up a higher monthly tab.

S[/quote]

Mighty Stu - good to know I’m in line with a guy whose obviously on top of things! What’s your thoughts on fat burners? If you have your diet and nutrition under control, do you take to help with burning fat or do you take to provide more energy while cutting calories?[/quote]

I think they have their place after diet and training are squared away, but aside from a few truly helpful ingredients usually present, I find that they’re best used to overcome the bit of lethargy that a hard dieting individual will no doubt encounter.

While I used to be a big fan of HOT-ROX, they’re sadly not allowed under the WNBF ‘banned substance’ list. I’ve enjoyed a product called Meltdown, but eventually just started buying what I believe were the effective ingredients individually, which turned out to be not only much cheaper, but allowed me to get the amounts that I wanted.

Sorry for the slight derail!

S[/quote]

I’ve been very curious about how much of a bump fat burners would give me in energy and fat burning. I tried a dose of ephedrine years ago at a strongman contest and I felt like it took me a week to recover. I tried HOT-ROX a while ago and liked it but I was also doing the v-diet so hard to say how good they are at burning fat (for me, personally) when not depleting carbs but I think they were def beneficial for keeping my energy up. Thanks again mighty stu!

[quote]hughgrection wrote:
What are you using for workout nutrition?[/quote]
Personally, I’m happy with Surge Workout Fuel Before and Anaconda during. But any quality carbs and protein should work. I’m in the minority, but I still recommend good old Surge Recovery to some folks, even though it’s “outdated” by some standards.

This sounds like a bigger issue than just workout nutrition, yeah. Usually you can “fix” this a good bit by building muscle and dropping fat. I saw you had an Indigo log a while back and you seem to be in pretty solid shape. But you’ve always had this issue?

Carb-free PWO nutrition is advocated by some coaches, so you’re obviously not out of luck. But I’d rather keep tweaking the when/how much, to find what works best for you, instead of dropping them entirely.

FWIW, I had a bunch of steamed edamame with dinner last night. I am not, was not, and would not be worried about elevated E levels from whole foods. Processed soy products (protein powders, breakfast cereals “fortified” with soy protein, etc.) are what need to be avoided.

Chris: Are you talking about protein powders in general, or soy based protein powders? Just curious.

[quote]Pitbull78 wrote:

Chris: Are you talking about protein powders in general, or soy based protein powders? Just curious.[/quote]
I Just mean soy-based powders. (And as was mentioned in another thread recently, the soy lecithin found in almost all protein powders is not a phytoestrogen.)

[quote]hughgrection wrote:
Just curious…if you had a ~$100 budget each month for supplements, what would you take?
Right now, I am in a situation where I value my recovery the most so I am taking;
Curcumin, Flameout, ZMA and Metabolic Drive

What gets you the most for your buck?[/quote]

For my money, given $100 in a month I would do MAG-10/SWF. Better for workout recovery IMHO. You can scale it so that 1 serving MAG-10 and 3/4 serving SWF is what you use, and that will last you at least a month unless you’re training 6 days a week. The SWF should last about 6-7 weeks at that rate. Works out to something like a bit under $100. Other option for pure workout recovery is Anaconda. If you train 5 days/week then you’ll go through 4 tubs of anaconda in 11.25 weeks, which is almost exactly $100. but that doesn’t leave any money for vitamins or other supps… :frowning:

I tend to get regular Zinc and melatonin for my sleep, and it works just fine nightly on an empty stomach for me (it’s like $15 for like 4-5 months when you break the math down). I miss the magnesium but it’s cheaper and still effective. I get cheap whey protein from a reputable company for my MRP. Flameout is the one that I would really miss, but when workout recovery is the big one, I like this approach with mag/swf. If joint recovery and anti-inflammation is the big one, I like your approach way better.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]hughgrection wrote:
What are you using for workout nutrition?[/quote]
Personally, I’m happy with Surge Workout Fuel Before and Anaconda during. But any quality carbs and protein should work. I’m in the minority, but I still recommend good old Surge Recovery to some folks, even though it’s “outdated” by some standards.

This sounds like a bigger issue than just workout nutrition, yeah. Usually you can “fix” this a good bit by building muscle and dropping fat. I saw you had an Indigo log a while back and you seem to be in pretty solid shape. But you’ve always had this issue?

Carb-free PWO nutrition is advocated by some coaches, so you’re obviously not out of luck. But I’d rather keep tweaking the when/how much, to find what works best for you, instead of dropping them entirely.

FWIW, I had a bunch of steamed edamame with dinner last night. I am not, was not, and would not be worried about elevated E levels from whole foods. Processed soy products (protein powders, breakfast cereals “fortified” with soy protein, etc.) are what need to be avoided.[/quote]

I used some surge recovery and that worked OK. It def helped during the vdiet. I occasionally still use it when I need a quick post workout fuel. I like the anaconda and MAG-10 but price points are tough to swallow sometimes.

Really started noticing it after I went on the vdiet and started the I3G. I really cleaned up my diet because whats the point of doing a vdiet if you don’t keep eating clean but as soon as I added the finibars or surge WO fuel my body fat went up. Programs and results were great but hard to tell if it was I3G or the programs that made the bigger difference in my strength. Physique was good too but adding the carbs seemed to soften me up. I played around with when and what but couldn’t pin point the issue besides the added carbs. I know they keep telling you to add more carbs in I3G forums but I felt like I had added enough.
I played O-LINE and got up to 300lbs after coming to university as a 225 lb d-end by eating anything and everything but still stayed fairly “fat gut free” so sometimes I think I caused myself to completely reset my blood sugar levels after 4 years of gaining weight and another few years of trying to stay heavy. Not sure if that is possible.
To be completely honest I currently have 3 children under 3 so my workout routine and nutrition isn’t as disciplined as it was before the last two came along. That’s why I focus a lot on the recovery aspects. I’m also 40 so setting new PB’s isn’t as high up on the agenda as it used to be but staying lean is as I know the stats for over-weight/high bf% are linked to so many health issues.

Post workout now is basically yams/sweet potatos or rice, veggies and a protein shake. I know I need to have carbs but I think whole foods are better due to slower digestion probably.

I don’t disagree with your view on soy but I’m a total anti-soy guy (except for some sauce on my sushi) just based on how much people think it’s so good for them.

Thanks for taking the time to answer this Chris. You have some great points and questions. I like your articles on T-Nation too.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]hughgrection wrote:
Just curious…if you had a ~$100 budget each month for supplements, what would you take?
Right now, I am in a situation where I value my recovery the most so I am taking;
Curcumin, Flameout, ZMA and Metabolic Drive

What gets you the most for your buck?[/quote]

For my money, given $100 in a month I would do MAG-10/SWF. Better for workout recovery IMHO. You can scale it so that 1 serving MAG-10 and 3/4 serving SWF is what you use, and that will last you at least a month unless you’re training 6 days a week. The SWF should last about 6-7 weeks at that rate. Works out to something like a bit under $100. Other option for pure workout recovery is Anaconda. If you train 5 days/week then you’ll go through 4 tubs of anaconda in 11.25 weeks, which is almost exactly $100. but that doesn’t leave any money for vitamins or other supps… :frowning:

I tend to get regular Zinc and melatonin for my sleep, and it works just fine nightly on an empty stomach for me (it’s like $15 for like 4-5 months when you break the math down). I miss the magnesium but it’s cheaper and still effective. I get cheap whey protein from a reputable company for my MRP. Flameout is the one that I would really miss, but when workout recovery is the big one, I like this approach with mag/swf. If joint recovery and anti-inflammation is the big one, I like your approach way better.[/quote]

Thanks Aragorn. I am really tempted to try MAG-10 again but the price…

Good points though and great breakdown on usage vs cost.