T Nation

Bruce Lee as an MMA Fighter?


#1

watch this video. many guys here and others still think of bruce lee as just an actor who knew very little about actual fighting. if these people really knew the truth. talk to guys who trained with him. listen to what this guy says. Bruce lee was a mutant. simple. His speed, power, technical knowledge was light years ahead of everyone.


#2

Cool story.

Put him in the ring with any half decent modern fighter and he'd get blown away. There is a lot of love for Bruce Lee, much is deserved, since he was a very talented athlete. But fighting is a whole different kettle of fish, and the people fighting when he was around were toughened by tough times and a vast amount of fights. No amount of reading, training knowledge and theorising, however ingenious or correct, will give you any chance against someone who has learned to fight by fighting.


#3

Bruce lee was gud but he didn't train flies so his hooks not strong like Randleman who train westside and beat him.


#4

Louie Simmons + Bruce Lee = Godzilla?

And I mean if you combined them, not if he trained Bruce Lee. And maybe if some nuclear goo was added, like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.


#5

Fucking epic.

Though Randleman is a test case for wrestling plus raw talent. He managed to starch a world class kickboxer with strikes, using essentially untrained standup skills.

Then he manages to get choked out by a no where near state level submission artist because why would a fucking wrestler ever need to learn about fighting on the ground? Yup, same opponent.

My what if is "What if Kevin Randleman would have trained outside his comfort zone and learned some boxing/clinch striking and submissions?" World beater?

In the same vein what if Georger Foreman would have used the jab and tightened up his punches when he was young?

Young "From the Windows George"

Old George

Would a young George that did not forgo the jab and set ups have beaten Ali?

For my part I think he may have actually killed fighters in the ring.

Sorry rougevampire, but this is sort of a "What if" thread so it got me thinking.

Any and all weigh in.

Regards,

Robert A


#6

this thread is ridiculous and makes me wanna puke.


#7

Bruce Lee was just a skinny asian actor with "tales" about his glory days on china, which no ones has recorded or ever saw.


#8

Dude, the OP is a doucher troll. Just leave him be. I kind of like Robert A's musings here about ole' George Foreman, so address that instead. haha


#9

Todays fighters are animals mate, Bruce lee had some chance in his weight division maybe, but not against the best of the best MMA...no way.


#10

Your statement is neither fair, nor accurate.

Now, I am sure we are all incredibly sick of hearing people attribute super human feats to Bruce Lee. And I do not beleive he was always the best fighter on his sets, let alone the world. But a great many very well respected coaches have said that he taught them things, oppened their eyes, and changed the way martial arts was taught and practiced in the west.

Joe Lewis was a fantastic fighter. He gives Bruce Lee a ton of credit when asked.

Dan Inosanto is a walking compendium of martial arts knowledge. He credits Bruce Lee with being his teacher and essentually creating JKD.

Prof. Wally Jay spoke well of Bruce Lee's technique.

Gene LeBell also says Bruce Lee was legitimate.

These are men of proven, documented skill and understanding of the martial arts.

I know Sentoguy has posted some of what he has heard about Bruce Lee from his own instructors.

Now, again I am not saying he was the greatest fighter, or teacher of all time. I honestly think Inosanto and Lewis did/do a hell of a lot more to make the principles Lee developed workable as a system/concept. But if giants such as Inosanto and Lewis say Lee helped them be who they are, I will not call them liars.

Make no mistake about it. Your post is calling them liars, or fools. You are implying that the man they consider a teacher and source of knowledge was a hoax and they are too foolish to know it, or that they are willfully misrepresenting the truth.

Now, I think I know where your reaction comes from. You are tired of hearing ludicrous claims of his prowess and are over reacting by making an equally ludicrous claim of his inadequacy. That may seem all well and good to you. It is just a forum. Except, you are calling a teacher of one of Sento's teacher's (Joe Lewis, currently battling cancer if you remember) a fraud. That is a very serious accusation to make. I freely admit to being a walking anachronism in many ways. My views on martial arts being one of them.

I don't mean this to seem like an attack on you. I am taking the time to write this for two reasons. The first, is that I consider Sentoguy a credit to this board and Joe Lewis is battling for his life. I would not want this thread to cause any pain for Sento. Even though he is more than capable of fighting his own battles, I would not want him to be hurt by something he reads on this board.

The second, and biggest reason, is that I think you are better than what you have posted here. I understand the urge to use hyperbole to counter act hyperbole. But maybe the truth is a better tool?

Regards,

Robert A


#11

Irish,
I would like to hear your opinions on that. Duffy brought up Wilfred Benitez in another thread and it has me thinking of some of the great "could have been legends".

Anyone have any examples of others? Kaiser, rougevampire, anyone?

Am I wrong about Foreman or Randleman?

Regards,

Robert A


#12

RobertA brings so much class here.

usually we would

toast the douchebags hard enough into leaving.

Ignore and hope for the best,
and now we have someone posting some amazing thoughts and making
polished turds out of the vomit that is here.

he even has a good effect on Kaiser metal- who is almost off
blocked list probation.
kind of :slight_smile:

Sigh.

Randleman.

all the tools none of the brain power.
and all teh roidz too.

in college easily won what I never could

Mark Coleman kind of sheltered Randleman, and took care of him
problem was colmen wasn't that smart either.
when I say Took care of him I think Kevin R
wasnt a thug but clearly needed some guidance.

not smart enough or more likely financially sound enough
to get better training.

I think both of them fought to pay bills and
where never at the top of the pay scale
add that to some bullheadedness and its kinda how he stagnated.


#13

You're all a bunch of peter puffers. Fighting is the same as it always has been. There are no new styles out there. The fighting styles of MMA fighters nowadays are all ancient fighting styles that were around even when Bruce Lee was. If a person was to read any of his writings or listen to a thing he said, you would realize that he was one of the best fighters to live.


#14

Interesting post Robert A.

I read an interview with Chris Eubank a while back where he said that he had also adopted some of Bruce Lee's ideas, particularly on weight distribution and foot placement. The guy was a great innovator and a fantastic athlete, but neither of those make you a great fighter. I feel quite strongly about the topic of bruce Lee, but I can see i'm preaching to the choir, so I'll drop it!

With regards to George Foreman, I agree completely. You can look at the Klitchkos for confirmation. A giant fighter, with devastating punching power, with a world class jab, is almost unbeatable. The jab is often neglected, probably since it is never a glamorous punch. But, with a few notable exceptions, it is a mandatory requirement for an all time great spot. Big george, if he could jab, would have taken Ali's head off. Ali, phenominal as he was, did eat a lot more punches than most people seem to appreciate. If Foreman could have jabbed like Klitschko, I think people could be talking about him as the greatest heavyweight of all time. I am in no doubt that with a fantastic jab, his fight against Ali would have been over inside 4 rounds. It would have been devastating.


#15

kmcnyc,

Thanks for the kind words.

Now that I think about Randleman I recall a documentary where he mentioned being molested as a child and basically wanting to die/kill himself for his childhood. I think he basically credited Coleman for saving him from that. If my memory isn't on the fritz again than that could go a long way to explaining why he never wanted to leave his comfort zone/support structure.

Really, when I think of some of the broken individuals I have known with similar stories, maybe Randleman isn't a regretful almost, but the big success. Found some discipline and self respect through his work on the mat. Found some stability and piece when he finally got a role model that gave a shit about him. For all Coleman's fault, I get the feeling he really cares for the guys he trains with/coaches and especially for Randleman. Just a thought.

I always liked Randleman. Even though I bag on his skill set, he seemed like a fairly smart fighter too. I don't imagine you could accomplish what he did in wrestling and be oblivious to strategy though. Intense, but seemed/seems like a class act on and off the mat. Did you meet him/know him?

LondonBoxer,

Well worded. The only thing I might add is that you have to have the beard as well. Foreman certainly had/has a good chin. The punches he ate from Frasier, Norton, Lyle, Morrison, and Cooney confirm it. Without the great chin you go from mythic destroyer to merely Lennox Lewis. "Merely" meaning a champ that has to fight defensively enough to "only" get 30 odd knockouts and spur one other "champ" into throwing a belt away rather than fighting him. Way to go Riddick Bowe. Hollyfield, a fearless warrior by most accounts, did his best to duck him as well.

The beard is the biggest ? I have with Lee. I am aware of other great martial artists who couldn't make it as figthers because they were shaving chandeliers every morning. I don't know if Lee could take the shots. Not that that would diminish his contributions at all.

Regards,

Robert A


#16

Good point. I agree completely. The ability of foreman to take a punch and keep coming is something that already seperates him from fighters like the Klitchkos and Lewis. I think that if he could have developed his jab we would probably be talking about him as the greatest heavyweight of all time. I also think we'd be talking about his jab knockouts! The man had phenominal arm punching power.


#17

Although HammerHouse was deeply respect and accomplished on late 90's and early 00's, it was just a brotherhood between Baroni, Randleman and Coleman, they didn't have a place to train and Coleman stated one time: that Hammerhouse was nothing more than a speed-bag in his porch(and that Randleman stole his speed-bag and never gave back.)

They were so effective, despite being one-dimensional that they ruled early on the age of Vale Tudo/NHB.

Coleman made an impressive comeback after the UFC stint and went on to PRIDE to win the PRIDE 2000 GP at a relative advanced age for MMA standards, his first fight with Fedor was memorable, he got some good positions but unfortunately his lack of knowledge on bjj and wrestling only mentality made him fail to capitalize on his advantage, followed by a swift armbar Fedor-style.

Randleman is an even better specimen, that guy has probably more fast twitch fibers on his right arm than 99% of the population have in their entire body.Japan always loved over-muscled fighters, his Charisma and style made him know as "Donkey Kong" through Japan, that's why Sakuraba entered his fight against Randleman dressed as Mario(from Mario Bros.)

His knockout against favorite Crocop during Pride Total Elimination 2004, threw a wrench in what PRIDE was hoping for that year in the HW Championship, Crocop was a big draw and very famous due his K-1 history, that and the "Randleplex" against Fedor were things of beauty. Winning or Losing Randleman had his place in PRIDE due to his huge charisma and monster physique which attracted many Japanese fans(just like Bob Sapp was a SUPER-STAR on Japan and made SEVERAL CM and got multi-millionare, shame he got lazy But at the beginning of his career he was a serious threat, he beat Ernesto Hoost twice and gave Minotauro the fight of his career.)

Unfortunately, Randleman had the potential to be a great champion but never lived to his hype, as Coleman, his wrestling-only mentality, never cared about training bjj or improving his striking, which was very raw, but effective, made him get subbed by CROCOP(by guillotine), Fedor(Kimura), Ron Waterman the Pro Wrestler(by Keylock) and Shogun(Knee-bar). Imagine the real monster he would be if he trained heavily some boxing and bjj to complement with his wrestling.

It was a shame he got robbed on his Bas Rutten fight, i think that's the biggest robbery i've ever seen, even bigger than Rizzo vs Couture or Leonard Garcia's numerous fights, or recently Riki Fukuda vs Nick Ring or Omigawa vs Darren Elkins.

I won't even get started about Baroni, that guy gas tank is worse than Cyborg Santos.


#18

I would almost agree with you except steroids and strength training is much better now. I do think skills were much better back in Bruce Lee's era. These young idiots now seem to think people worked on one thing and never sparred with each other.

They can't seem to put two and two together and figure out that people from different fighting backgrounds respected him because they trained with him at some point to exchange techniques and applications. But then again I guess every modern day person who never trained against him knows more than all the people that did.


#19

go watch the ali vs foreman fight sometime. it only last 8 rounds. the first 3 rounds, ali was killing foreman. then ali just fought smart, foreman got tired, a few rounds later, ali knocked him out. no matter how foreman fought him, he get killed. if foreman didn't attack as much, ali would dance around and pick him apart all night long. go watch the first 3 rounds of that fight.


#20

Fuck off man. Go somewhere else and do this shit. They should have banned your ass a while ago now douchebag.