Bigflamer, God also brought free will and temptation into the world, if you chose to buy into it. We all have challenges to overcome, it is clear of that in the scriptures. They are different from person to person, God also knows that some may not overcome them.
He doesn’t make mistakes, but you also can’t take a back seat and expect to meet your maker on good terms.
[quote]
You are what you are man – I could watch 24 hours of gay porn for goodness’ sake and it could never do anything to test my naturally occuring heterosexuality![/quote]
If you watch 24hrs of gay porn i’d say your heterosexuality is definitely suspect.
Gay cowboys…what the fuck is wrong with the world!?!
and milburn drysdale in the beverly hillbillies made bankers look bad too.
… geeze … it’s just a movie.
[quote]sovereign wrote:
Bigflamer, God also brought free will and temptation into the world, if you chose to buy into it. We all have challenges to overcome, it is clear of that in the scriptures. They are different from person to person, God also knows that some may not overcome them. [/quote]
Yet he has put us here, on this earth, to learn from those challenges and to allow aour souls to develop. If god knows which of us will not overcome these challenges, then god knows which of us will be damned to hell?. Do you believe in a god that creates souls for the purpose of damnation to hell?
My god doesn’t, my god has a plan for us all. My god is all knowing and all loving, forgiving, and has a purpose for EVERYTHING. Even the shitty stuff. My god wouldn’t put a soul on earth, knowing that he would “choose” to be gay, and then damn them to hell for it. Does anyone want to believe in a god that would throw a homosexual in a fiery pit of hell for living a life god KNEW he would lead?
I don’t.
[quote]
He doesn’t make mistakes, but you also can’t take a back seat and expect to meet your maker on good terms. [/quote]
I believe that we serve god’s will constantly and most of the time without conciousness of it. I believe that whatever happens, happens for a reason. And that God wanted it too happen.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
stellar_horizon wrote:
Listen dude. I have a strong faith in god and his works. Religion is where I develop a problem. Do you think that people are gay against God’s will, and that there’s nothing he could do about it? Think about it. All things happen for a reason and all things exist because God allows them to. Period.
If:
-God has a plan for us all and we all interweave together in that plan
-God has a reason for everything
-God doesn’t make mistakes
Then:
-God’s plan includes the homosexuals
-There’s a reason he allowed homosexuals to come into this world
-God doesn’t make mistakes. Period.
To think that anyone, including the homosexuals, could do anything but god’s will is vain indeed.[/quote]
Very, very nice post Flamer.
There was a part in Gettysburg where the old Irish guy says, “Any man who judges by the race is a pee-wit. You take men as they come- one at a time”. To be coming out like this and putting up a post where you pretty much equate gays with all the problems in America…well thats just uneducated.
Wasn’t the chick in Titanic engaged or something? Wasn’t she an adultress?
Wasn’t Johnny Depp in “Blow” a deadbeat dad and a drug dealer?
Wasn’t Tim Robbins in “The Shawshank Redemption” a murderer? Or Nicholas Cage in “Con Air”? We’re being awful selective here…
To the original poster, get a goddamn life. It seems like everywhere on here everyone is preacheing against gays and is claiming these radical religious messages about America being the great evil and how the world is ending. Your making Zeb here look like almost secular 
Live and let live.
Did you guys climb the gates of the asylum, or did you tunnel out?
Bigflamer, I know where you are coming from with that argument, there is a problem with my argument, perhaps in the interpretation that God is all Loving. God does love us all, God also put Adam and Eve on the planet knowing full well what they would do.
There are many more contradictions throughout the bible and any other religious writings. It is said, he gave us Free Will, he may not know the outcome of humans. It would be plausible that God may have given up some of the omnipotence to see how his creations would act without his hand guiding them, but merely the scripture.
I know it’s thin, but it’s the best I could come up with. Onto what you said, his foresight may extend infintley beyond our mortal sight, and things that might seem contradictory may pan out just the opposite.
I didn’t read any of the posts here, but I saw the title “Brokeback…” and I saw a long word that begins with “P” and ends in “a”. I thought the title of this thread was:
Brokeback Proteinpowda
Perhaps the criticism is too harsh without enough foundation. I think there is something very wrong with homosexuals and portrayal of them as role models. Too me, it is portraying a murder or a child molester as a hero. I think more damage is done suggesting people are shackled by their impulses.
Don’t get me wrong here, I don’t think that homosexuals are bad people, just misguided in a massive sort of way. It’s another way of continually telling America, ‘It can’t be your fault you got fat! It must be the spoon!’.
Propaganda? In what way? Is it supposed to make me want to become gay? To very roughly paraphrase Dennis Miller on homosexuality. If you can look at Sophia Loren, and still want to have sex with a man, then it is not a choice.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
I didn’t read any of the posts here, but I saw the title “Brokeback…” and I saw a long word that begins with “P” and ends in “a”. I thought the title of this thread was:
Brokeback Proteinpowda[/quote]
hahahaha
Realy now, don’t you think that if someone is dumb enough to walk in to that movie not knowing that it’s a specificaly gay flick that they are going to be able to pick up on the subtle nuances that create this percieved bias?
Give people some credit.
Also, wouldn’t you agree that if a person was able to compare and contrast the different portrayals of lifestyles that they would also be able to see the intended message, and therefore be able to form their own opinion?
Seriously- Who ever wrote that article and who ever posted this must think that we are a bunch of fucking dimwits.
There is Nothing I hate worse than spoonfed opinions. Especialy when the feeder is of the opinion that there is a lack of critical thinking skills being demonstrated. That is a sure fire way of making yourself look like an asshole.
[quote]sovereign wrote:
The very morals of our nation are falling apart, we are falling prey to political correctness. It is common knowledge to most, that if you criticze Gays, Blacks, Mexicans, etc, you will burned at the stake. Even if the criticism is legitimate, including issues such as welfare, abortion, involvment in Iraq.
[/quote]
Got any examples of your legitimate criticisms of Gays, Blacks, and Mexicans?
Don’t forget that there are a lot of white trash Bible-thumpers on welfare. And they are straight as arrows!
This thread is gay. One day…I shall read the actual posts in it and confirm my theory.
[quote]swordthrower wrote:
sovereign wrote:
The very morals of our nation are falling apart, we are falling prey to political correctness. It is common knowledge to most, that if you criticze Gays, Blacks, Mexicans, etc, you will burned at the stake. Even if the criticism is legitimate, including issues such as welfare, abortion, involvment in Iraq.
Got any examples of your legitimate criticisms of Gays, Blacks, and Mexicans?
Don’t forget that there are a lot of white trash Bible-thumpers on welfare. And they are straight as arrows!
[/quote]There might be a lot of white trash on welfare, but no true “Bible Thumpers” on welfare. The Good Book says that if you don’t work, you don’t eat.
Just an interesting side note:
I’ve seen coming attractions for the movie, and still don’t know what the fuck it’s about. All they tell you is…umm…nothing, really…
It’s like a “feminine hygine product” commercial (sorry for the mysogenistic comment, but look where I’m going with it)…tampon commercials have…a girl running on a beach, playing with a dog, drinking a cup of coffee, then smelling some flowers. If they didn’t tell you what they were selling at the end, you wouldn’t know what in the hell the commercial was for!
Thats how I feel about the ad campaign for this movie…I only know that the main characters are gay (though not from the commercials)…and if all I knew about the main characters in a movie was that they’re straight, I don’t think I’d go see it…
Now, if I knew that they were lesbians on the other hand…well, shit, I’ve bought “movies” solely on the premise the main characters are lesbians (usually, however, those are “straight to DVD” types of movies…).
[quote]scoff00 wrote:
Propaganda? In what way? Is it supposed to make me want to become gay?[/quote]
No. The propaganda’s role is not to make you a homosexual, but to attempt to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside towards homosexual relations, infidelity, free-spirited & promiscuous lifestyles (whether hetero or homosexual), and even comfortable with disintegrating our obligations and vows to others. Any art that’s strong enough to evoke sentiments pertaining to a given stimulus in a triumphant fashion has the ability to confuse man’s ability between right and wrong.
“Gee, them religious folks killed those gay guys everyone loved in that classic film. I can’t stand religious folks. To hell with them and their religious ideals! Marriage is a joke, women are useless, and kids are such a nuisance. Forget about procreation, it’s just easier to find me a whore or a man to hump 'cause sex is more important than food.”
The author specifies the dangers of such propaganda in his first and latter passages. And yes, the author comes from a Christian background. Nonetheless, only a fool would demote his logic, concerns, and admonitions based upon that fact (as some of you have already done).
Dr. R. Winfield[quote]
To even talk rationally about a film like this will endanger one of causing immediate knee-jerk reactions with slogans; “homophobe”, “bigot”, “narrow minded”, etc. And God forbid you dare to insinuate that there is an agenda behind such obvious propaganda…[/quote]
Judging from some people’s posts, Winfield evidently hit the nail right on the head with that quote. I didn’t name-call anyone here, but I’ve allegedly dug out of an asylum just for posting his article. I never said or implied that homosexuals are responsible for the world’s problems, but that’s what I’m being accused of insinuating.
It’s no secret that I’m not in favor of homosexual relations, but for the record, I feel that a film about homosexual love could have easily been based upon nobler themes rather than two married men sneaking behind their wive’s backs engaging in sodomy and then associating traditional religious ethics with evil-doers who fail to practice what they preach.
I’m not here to convert anyone. I simply read and posted Dr. Winfield’s article and happen to agree (because I’ve witnessed for myself) the politically correct trend that’s neutering America.
And as for the person who told me to “get a life” simply because I posted something controversial which I happened to understand and empathize with, perhaps you should practice what you preach - to be tolerant even of the intolerant. Or as your avatar relates, crack open your Bible and see what this means, “Woe to you hypocrites…”
Peace be with all!
Something that you should also consider is that many “cowboys” WERE gay. Although the concept of homosexuality as a defining characteristic was not created until the mid-late 19th century, men have certainly been having “sex” with each other since the begining humankind. Cowboys were no exception. In fact, it is known among Western historians that the prevelance of homosexual behavior was expecially high among cowboys.
I don’t know if this behavior was so prevelant due to conveniece, such as that between otherwise heterosexual men in prison, or whether men with homosexual tendancies were attracted to the profession to engage in this behavior. Maybe being a cowboy just provided many with a way to disguise thier behavior or avoid being recognized (this is why I suspect to many sexual deviants are attracted to the priesthood…to hide their abnormal sexual identities).
Now I haven’t seen this movie and I can’t tell you if I think it is trying to promote homosexuality, but I suspect that it is just trying to tell a story that has not been shown in major cinema before. All of the attention the movie has recieved just proves that the investors were smart in taking that risk.
I don’t think I have ever seen a Western that portrays the West with historical accuracy and I don’t expect this to be an exception. That is not why I watch movies. I did not watch Pearl Harbor with Ben Aflack to learn about the Japanese attack on the United states. (Wait a minute…why the fuck did I sit through that crap?)
On the other hand, sometimes their is value in using a movie to start a discourse, even if the movie itself does have any social of historical value. For example, Mario VanPeeble’s movie Posse, was the first Western that I know of to depict black cowboys as the focal characters rather than as stereotypical jive-talking sidekicks or black-faced cowards.
Posse was pure Western with exagerated violence and the typical hero character. But what it did is make rethink their conceptions about race in the West. Many people did not know their were black cowboys and I imagine their portrayal was a shock or a least a novalty to them. But it did make people rethink their preconcieved notions about the West. There were black coyboys. There were lots of black cowboys. I can’t remember the statistics exactly but I think that in the paradigmic Western era about 1/4 or 1/3 of cowboys were black. That knowledge may upset you or please you depending on your beliefs, but I think it is better to make your moral judgements based on the most accurate truth we can establish.
The same can be said about Brokeback Mountain. The movie may suck, it may take advantage of the controvery caused by being the first gay cowboy movie, and maybe…and I doubt it…but maybe it is an international conspiracy to promote homosexuality. It is fiction, but their is value if it makes us question the premises of our beliefs.
Now its pretty clear that people whose beliefs to not accept homosexuality will not like this movie. That does not necessarily mean that the movie is promoting homosexualy. Homosexual behavior was prevelant among cowboys. This is the only movie I have heard of with gay cowboys and from what I have heard their were only two gay cowboys in the film. I think that gay cowboys are pretty under-represented in the Hollywood films. What is the big deal?
BTW, does everyone know that the West was not exceptionally violent either?
[quote]Moriarty wrote:
Have you seen the film yet?
[/quote]
I already mentioned that I have NOT seen the film. I’m not a fan of romance films or novels, whether heterosexual or otherwise. I will admit that I jumped the gun in posting Winfield’s critique without seeing the film for myself and (as another poster noted) that not everyone felt the children were conveyed in a malicious or derogatory fashion. It is important to note however, that nobody argues against the fact that marriage as depicted in the film is passionless, anything but hallowed, drab, shallow, burdensome, and meaningless. On this one point alone, I have issues with the film’s objectives. Nobody seems to be disagreeing with Winfield’s other comments either…
Just some strawmen about how God created gay people so gay people are good, or that God and religion don’t really exist so being gay must be fine, or extremists implying that I must hate gay people for even thinking of posting Winfield’s article.
I admit to accepting Winfield’s critique with more than a grain of salt, but the totality of his feedback in conjunction with other potentially harmful trends impregnating world cultures (such as in Japan where sexually immature girls are coerced by comics into promiscuity and experimentation) definitely raised a red flag in my mind.
My ultimate point was that this film is loaded with propaganda and that viewers should be conscious of this if & when they ever watch the movie. Some posters claim they will never watch the movie so they don’t give a damn about anything in this thread - thanks for the inspiring feedback (sarcasm well-noted). The rest seem to agree with me on my point. Whether the propaganda is as deep as Winfield suggests is for individual viewers to decide. I never came to battle out whether being homosexual is right or wrong. I simply wanted to defend the notions of marriage, procreation, and fidelity since these themes are potentially being attacked in the film Brokeback Mountain.
Peace be with all.
It is important to note however, that nobody argues against the fact that marriage as depicted in the film is passionless, anything but hallowed, drab, shallow, burdensome, and meaningless. On this one point alone, I have issues with the film’s objectives.
I simply wanted to defend the notions of marriage, procreation, and fidelity since these themes are potentially being attacked in the film Brokeback Mountain.
Peace be with all.[/quote]
Forget the gay stuff for a minute. What makes you think that all marriages exhibit these notions. I am not saying that I disagree with these notions, ideals, values, or whatever you want to call them. But that is not the reality with many marriages. Maybe we would all like it to be but it is not so. Should we then ignore any movie or book that is about reality rather than our ideals? Should I not have watched Boyz in the Hood because it depicts violence? Do you think making people aware of violence is the same as promoting violence?
Maybe marriage was depicted in the film the way you suggest because thats how some marriages ARE. Do you really want to deny that fact keeping in mind current divorce statistics? Just because some movies or books depict bad qualities in characters, society, government, or whatever, does not mean they are endorsing those bad qualities.