British Reparations?

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]lixy wrote:
Rogers16 wrote:
You do realise Jews have bin living in Palestine since the Roman times

Actually, they’ve been there much longer than that. But that’s hardly a reasonable argument in favour of Zionism.

and have bin fighting for that land for centuries

[citation needed]

so why not give it to them

Because it wasn’t yours, you dim-wit!

it was theres oringinally

What?

and the Arabs who wanted it aswell has the whole of the fuckin middle east

I don’t give a damn who wanted it or what they had.

People were living and exploiting that land, when Britain stormed in, declared it a colony, then handed it over to a people who massively immigrated to it. That’s wrong, no matter how much twist you put into it.

and we never gave weapons to the Jews

To cite the tip of the iceberg:

and again we never ask them to fight

Of course not! But you can’t look at the maps of Israel and the Occupied Territories, then throw your hands in the air and say that your country has got no part of responsibility in the subsequent horror.

I understand your frustration when people rip on your country for bogus claims. But this particular instance, much like many lines in the sand your government drew in the region, are directly attributable to British imperialism. Don’t let nationalism blind you.[/quote]

Dude I never said Palestine was British it was a Jewish land and has been for fuckin ages so they deserve to have it back and what I mean the land being orignially Jewish is that the Romans, Ottomans and many others kicked them out and ok then we did give them weapons but so did the US they probably gave more and the Russians who supplied the Palestinians. Frustration? Why the hell whould I be frustrated with this I know you get people who either hate or like your country I aint an idiot.

22

Rogers16 Lixy is just a hypocritical jackass. He is quite vocal in his indignation and outrage if the target is the US, Britain, Israel, France etc… But when it comes to the outrages committed by his people (muslims) he has nothing to say.

It wasn’t the British who invented slavery nor were they the ones who were the most involved in the slave trade out of Africa they didn’t get into the trade until 1562. Public enemy number one in that regard are the muslims. Slavery is a tradition in Islam that goes all the way back to mohamad who was personally involved in kidnapping, owning and abusing slaves.

There were two distinct slave trades out of Africa. The West coast slave trade which supplied the Americs and the much bloodier East coast slave trade to the muslims. About 11 million Africans died in the middle passage across the Atlantic. Over a hundred million Africans died being marched across the Sahara and shipped across the Indian ocean.

What the OP’s British Betrayal Corporation (BBC) dj’s don’t say about the British is they are the ones who finally ended the slave trade out of Africa. The British enacted the slave trade act which outlawed the slave trade within the British Empire in 1807. Then the slavery abolition act of 1833 which outlawed slavery within the empire.

The Committee for the Abolition of the Slave Trade, which led the campaign that pushed the act through, was a group of Evangelical Protestants allied with Quakers and united in their opposition to slavery and the slave trade. The Quakers had long viewed slavery as immoral, a blight upon humanity. By 1807 the abolitionist groups had a very sizable faction of like-minded members in the United Kingdom Parliament.

After the British ended their own slave trade, they pressed other nations to do the same. This reflected both a moral sense that the trade should be stopped everywhere and fear the British colonies would become uncompetitive. The British campaign against the slave trade by other nations was an unprecedented foreign policy effort.

The Royal Navy declared that ships transporting slaves were the same as pirates, and so ships carrying slaves were subject to destruction and any men captured were potentially subject to execution.

Between 1808 and 1860, the West Africa Squadron seized approximately 1,600 slave ships and freed 150,000 Africans who were aboard.[2] Action was also taken against African leaders who refused to agree to British treaties to outlaw the trade, for example against “the usurping King of Lagos”, deposed in 1851. Anti-slavery treaties were signed with over 50 African rulers.

In the 1860s, David Livingstone’s reports of atrocities within the Arab slave trade in Africa stirred up the interest of the British public, reviving the flagging abolitionist movement. The Royal Navy throughout the 1870s attempted to suppress “this abominable Eastern trade”, at Zanzibar in particular. In 1890 Britain handed control of the strategically important island of Heligoland in the North Sea to Germany in return for control of Zanzibar to help enforce the ban on slave trading.

Then there is the issue of Israel. The history of the Jews on that land goes back thousands of years. When they finally left that land and dispersed within the Roman empire it wasn’t by choice. They were driven off of the land by the Roman army. Then after the fall of Rome and the later Byzantine empire the Jews were again forcibly kept off of the land by the muslim Arabs.

So Lixy is full of shit when he tries to play it off as if the arabs living there were just peacefully living in a land they had found empty of any Jews and abandoned then out of nowhere a bunch of Jews decided to impose themselves with no logical reason as to why they belonged there.

23

[quote]Rogers16 wrote:
Dude I never said Palestine was British it was a Jewish land and has been for fuckin ages so they deserve to have it back and what I mean the land being orignially Jewish is that the Romans, Ottomans and many others kicked them out [/quote]

“Originally” in this context is counted in millenia. And if you think people should be making up for things that occured that long ago, then surely you must realize the utter hypocrisy of this thread (i.e: forgive us what we did less than 100 years ago, but let’s make reparations for what happened over 1000 years ago).

And Ottomans didn’t kick any Jews out. In fact, Belyazid the 2nd issued a formal invitation to Jews of Europe back when Spain kicked them out after the Alhambra Decree.

“Gave”? The US gives billions of dollars worth of weapons to Israel, and Washington’s love story with Tel-Aviv (the latter being this flick’s gold digger) is probably the biggest obstacle to settling the issue.

But just because somebody else is doing worse doesn’t absolve you of your crimes.

I think you mean the Soviets. Also, you’re probably confused on who took over the land of whom.

OK. My bad!

Drop the false dilemma and I’ll agree with you.

24

The British (esp John Locke and David Hume) gave us much of our philosophy. Our Founding Fathers were highly educated and refined British gentlemen, for the most part.

The British actually are the primary force for civilising the world (especially those from Lincolnshire ;).

25

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The British (esp John Locke and David Hume) gave us much of our philosophy. Our Founding Fathers were highly educated and refined British gentlemen, for the most part. [/quote]

Locke argued that empires would emerge from democracies, because of the promise of new wealth.

I can’t say he was very wrong in the case of the US.

26

[quote]lixy wrote:
Rogers16 wrote:
Dude I never said Palestine was British it was a Jewish land and has been for fuckin ages so they deserve to have it back and what I mean the land being orignially Jewish is that the Romans, Ottomans and many others kicked them out

“Originally” in this context is counted in millenia. And if you think people should be making up for things that occured that long ago, then surely you must realize the utter hypocrisy of this thread (i.e: forgive us what we did less than 100 years ago, but let’s make reparations for what happened over 1000 years ago).

And Ottomans didn’t kick any Jews out. In fact, Belyazid the 2nd issued a formal invitation to Jews of Europe back when Spain kicked them out after the Alhambra Decree.

and ok then we did give them weapons but so did the US they probably gave more

“Gave”? The US gives billions of dollars worth of weapons to Israel, and Washington’s love story with Tel-Aviv (the latter being this flick’s gold digger) is probably the biggest obstacle to settling the issue.

But just because somebody else is doing worse doesn’t absolve you of your crimes.

and the Russians who supplied the Palestinians.

I think you mean the Soviets. Also, you’re probably confused on who took over the land of whom.

Frustration? Why the hell whould I be frustrated with this

OK. My bad!

I know you get people who either hate or like your country I aint an idiot.

Drop the false dilemma and I’ll agree with you.[/quote]

Look at the time the Arabs and Jews were asking for Palestine from Britain because we owned it at the time which you own but think if we gave it to the Arabs the Palestinians would be fighting them and if we gave to the Jews which we did the Palestinians would be fighting them as they are today so there wasnt anyway out of it was there and dude I know were to blame for all this shit but like I say why just us opium war france was with us, slave trade portuguese, spanish and dutch first european nations to start it but were still being blamed, WW1 because Germany lost in arms race so they decided to start a war with us but check that arms race out and you will see other nations init aswell, WW2 because Germany lost in WW1 but were we fighting WW1 alone?

No, America, France and the Russians were fighting alongside us, Vietnam war because Britain started an empire and so we forced France to get one this confuses me oh yeh we werent even init lol hes also blaming Britain for the 6million Jews that died in the Holocuast because we invented the death camps but come on do you think were gonna know what Germans are gonna do with it? No, The first european nation to start imperialism was Spain and then everyother nations starting doing aswell do stay inline with the other countries but guess what were being balme for that aswell and now the Israelis and Palestinians conflict you see again we werent alone is this Americans backing the Israelis and Russians who are exactly the same as the soviets backing the Palestinians and Arabs.

27

[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The British (esp John Locke and David Hume) gave us much of our philosophy. Our Founding Fathers were highly educated and refined British gentlemen, for the most part.

Locke argued that empires would emerge from democracies, because of the promise of new wealth.

I can’t say he was very wrong in the case of the US.[/quote]

I agree. When people can vote for wealth from the public coffers, governments get taken over by the wealthy, in defense. Autocracy/plutocracy follows.

28

[quote]Gregus wrote:
Opium was already in high demand and usage before Britain got it’s hand in the pot. Different times and different understandings.

The Israel question - Simple answer. It should not exist. Where some politicians got the gaw to arbitrarily take a country and draw another country in it’s place and declare it a new state for such and such people. Then pretend like it’s always been there and wonder at the conflict.

The Jewish people have been the cancer of the world since the beginning of time. Every country in history where they settled in large numbers threw them out, why? Why would so many different cultures in different times in history throw out entire populations of peoples? Because Jewish people see themselves as Gods chosen people. They slowly over generations move their kind into positions of power. Medicine, banking, law, business. In short they take over and assimilate a culture or try to. Sooner or later the given culture had enough of the blatantness and revolts.

The Jews will never relinquish Israel. They’ve taken hold there and that’s that. They are not a pacifist people, they are not a tolerant people. they will always cry foul, but they are ruthless, totalitarian and aggressively pursue their agenda. Only recently do we see how they miss treat and trample on the Palestinians and such. Invading their homes, bulldozing their homes etc etc…

It took so long for that to get out. It’s been happening for a long time and only now it’s coming to light. The Jewish controlled press, thankfully, has it’s limits and this is a story they tried to silence for years and finally it came to light. [/quote]

Looks like the Jews are an amazingly talented people that every country should be proud to have as many as possible of.

Of course that is only true if you think that excellent doctors, bankers, lawyers and businessmen are a good thing.

30

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Oh my God, all the dead Indians, Iraquis, Vietnamese and Afghanis make me feel so guilty that I would do anything to shift the blame to someone else.

What has turned the shining city on the hill into a slaughterhouse that sends forth it´s armed goons to create a nightmare of pain and misery?

[/quote]

Don´t worry, I understand.

32

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33

[quote]Rogers16 wrote:
Look at the time the Arabs and Jews were asking for Palestine from Britain [/quote]

It could have been the Romas, the Kurds, the Poles, the Zambos, the Uighurs or the Martians. The land belonged to the people living on it, not some lady in flowery hats nor the victims of the Holocaust.

It’s astonishing that you can’t understand that.

You “owned” shit! Go read the mandate.

?

Duh!

Glad you see the distinction though, and how the Arabs have repeatidely screwed the Palestinians.

Of course there was! You mind your own business and not go around toppling regimes and planting your flag.

Like I said previously, the fate of that land was sealed the day British military bases were constructed. I’ll refer you to the Balfour Declaration of 1917 as well as text of the mandate of 1920 to understand what group had leverage over London.

Good.

Where did you get that idea? Just because you don’t know about the groups criticizing other empires, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

Stick around. You may learn just how much some of us abhor imperialism.

Sure! But Britain was first. So it’s normal that you hear more about it than about France with regards to the Opium Wars.

Of course you’re blamed. And so is Portugal, Spain, the Netherlands, etc.

You ruled the world back then. No other nation came close to the military power Britain had, and you used it to create countries from scratch, open up new markets for yourselves and squash everybody who fought back.

It’s all about proportions.

I never heard Britain being singled out for WWII. It’s always in conjunction with its allies.

Exactly!

Yeah, that’s silly!

I see your point.

But just because someone makes such silly arguments doesn’t mean Britain’s blameless.

So what do you want? A free pass because others are doing it too?

34

Btw, I just knew you’d completely ignore Sifu’s post on atrocities of Muslims related to slavery. It’s clear that wrong acts don’t really matter to you, what happens to the oppressed or otherwise victimized doesn’t matter to you – what matters to you is whether you can blame America, or nations such as Britain, and thus satisfy what appears your sole joy in life.

If there’s no way to satisfy that obsession of yours, then the oppression, victimization, mass deaths, etc just aren’t worthy of your saying a thing.

Thus, of course no expressed concern by you regarding Muslim atrocities. I wonder even if the signal made it past your optic nerve to your brain, or whether you have such an effective filtering mechanism that it did not and you honestly have no clue. But in any case it was completely predictable that so far as anything from you was concerned, it would be as if nothing were ever posted.

When you start criticizing wrongdoing by Muslims, Communists, etc, then I will grant you the credit of being an honest commentator instead of a twisted individual with incredible bias and no demonstrated interest on this board other than pursuing that bias.

35

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Well, I will finally come out and say it:

No matter how many people we kill we will never live up to the Holocaust.

Deep down that does not compute with USA, number 1.

Being hopelessly in love with flags, uniforms and shiny boots I do not know whether to be ashamed or disgusted that Austria was so much better at it than us.

[/quote]

That is ok.

Once you have learned to hate mindless nationalism, militarism and a feeling of superiority that leads to mindless slaughter in us, maybe you will learn to reject it for yourself.

36

[quote]lixy wrote:
Rogers16 wrote:
Look at the time the Arabs and Jews were asking for Palestine from Britain

It could have been the Romas, the Kurds, the Poles, the Zambos, the Uighurs or the Martians. The land belonged to the people living on it, not some lady in flowery hats nor the victims of the Holocaust.

It’s astonishing that you can’t understand that.

because we owned it

You “owned” shit! Go read the mandate.

at the time which you own

?

but think if we gave it to the Arabs the Palestinians would be fighting them

Duh!

Glad you see the distinction though, and how the Arabs have repeatidely screwed the Palestinians.

and if we gave to the Jews which we did the Palestinians would be fighting them as they are today so there wasnt anyway out of it

Of course there was! You mind your own business and not go around toppling regimes and planting your flag.

Like I said previously, the fate of that land was sealed the day British military bases were constructed. I’ll refer you to the Balfour Declaration of 1917 as well as text of the mandate of 1920 to understand what group had leverage over London.

and dude I know were to blame for all this shit

Good.

but like I say why just us

Where did you get that idea? Just because you don’t know about the groups criticizing other empires, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

Stick around. You may learn just how much some of us abhor imperialism.

opium war france was with us,

Sure! But Britain was first. So it’s normal that you hear more about it than about France with regards to the Opium Wars.

slave trade portuguese, spanish and dutch first european nations to start it but were still being blamed,

Of course you’re blamed. And so is Portugal, Spain, the Netherlands, etc.

WW1 because Germany lost in arms race so they decided to start a war with us but check that arms race out and you will see other nations init aswell,

You ruled the world back then. No other nation came close to the military power Britain had, and you used it to create countries from scratch, open up new markets for yourselves and squash everybody who fought back.

It’s all about proportions.

WW2 because Germany lost in WW1 but were we fighting WW1 alone?

I never heard Britain being singled out for WWII. It’s always in conjunction with its allies.

No, America, France and the Russians were fighting alongside us,

Exactly!

Vietnam war because Britain started an empire and so we forced France to get one this confuses me oh yeh we werent even init lol

Yeah, that’s silly!

hes also blaming Britain for the 6million Jews that died in the Holocuast because we invented the death camps but come on do you think were gonna know what Germans are gonna do with it?

I see your point.

But just because someone makes such silly arguments doesn’t mean Britain’s blameless.

No, The first european nation to start imperialism was Spain and then everyother nations starting doing aswell do stay inline with the other countries but guess what were being balme for that aswell and now the Israelis and Palestinians conflict you see again we werent alone is this Americans backing the Israelis and Russians who are exactly the same as the soviets backing the Palestinians and Arabs.

So what do you want? A free pass because others are doing it too?[/quote]

Dude how many countries thats done all the same shit as us getting told to pay reparations? None, its just us and dude I seriously dont give a shit about the Isrealis and Palestinians conflict they could of stopped the conflict themselves and all this bad stuff happened because of imperialism but you cant blame us for that everyone was doing it even Sweden was and seriously if we didnt start an empire the frenchies could of owned us and everyone knows thats pretty embarrassing.

37

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Btw, I just knew you’d completely ignore Sifu’s post on atrocities of Muslims related to slavery. It’s clear that wrong acts don’t really matter to you, what happens to the oppressed or otherwise victimized doesn’t matter to you – what matters to you is whether you can blame America, or nations such as Britain, and thus satisfy what appears your sole joy in life.

If there’s no way to satisfy that obsession of yours, then the oppression, victimization, mass deaths, etc just aren’t worthy of your saying a thing.

Thus, of course no expressed concern by you regarding Muslim atrocities. I wonder even if the signal made it past your optic nerve to your brain, or whether you have such an effective filtering mechanism that it did not and you honestly have no clue. But in any case it was completely predictable that so far as anything from you was concerned, it would be as if nothing were ever posted.

When you start criticizing wrongdoing by Muslims, Communists, etc, then I will grant you the credit of being an honest commentator instead of a twisted individual with incredible bias and no demonstrated interest on this board other than pursuing that bias.[/quote]

Dude are you saying I aint blaming the Arabs and communists but instead blaming it all on America and Britain? Btw I knew what sifu was saying and I agree with him but I didnt know what to reply to thats all.

38

The only reason any one asks the British or Americans to pay reparations is because these groups are collectively the only genuinely moral people on earth. They might actaully get money.

All this is kind of how people can rip on Christians knowing that the Christians won’t strap on a vest and walk into a daycare center or market square.

America and Britain can and do rule the world. Its our mutual ‘Manifest Destiny’.

39

Not you Rogers16…Lixy. He’s a product of too much KGB anti-western propaganda that was spread around the third world prior to the conclusion of the cold war.

40

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Not you Rogers16…Lixy. He’s a product of too much KGB anti-western propaganda that was spread around the third world prior to the conclusion of the cold war.[/quote]

Lixy is annoying