Breakfast When Bulking

Maybe you bulkers can help me out with something I am thinking about at the moment.

I train at 6:30 in the morning so usually get up about 6am knock back a pre-workout shake (50g protein 50g Carbs) at 6:15 and then a post work outshake (50g protein 90g carbs) about 7:30am. Due to work I generally dont get to eat again until 10 or 10:30. Not ideal but it is the best I can do at the moment. Total calories for the day is about 5,000 (at least that is my target). I feel like I am disadvantaging myself by not having a big breakfast but I dont like the idea of getting up at 5:30am

A couple of options that I have is that I could manage to have more food at 8:30am but struggle to eat anything that soon after my PWO shake.

Lately I have been adding an egg and wholemeal bread sandwhich with my pre workout shake to try and make things better.

I would be curious to hear from other early morning trainers about what you do in the mornings to get in enough calories.

Would it be better for me to get up and have a big breakfast at 6am and skip the pre workout shake?

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
I think you’ll find that most people aren’t actually following those recommendations. I think the average gym goer could get great gains on a 3000 - 3500 calorie plan and actually follow it.

Most people honestly don’t need 5000 calories to see a rise in weight, and certainly not a 1500 calorie BOMB for a single feeding opportunity.[/quote]

LOL, what a joke. This is why your still 170lbs at 5"10. Trainerdc’s breakfast looks money to me, although I would add in more eggs or egg whites though. It was at least for me very difficult to learn that I needed to eat a ton in order to gain muscle. 3000 cals is a cutting diet.

To the orignal poster, your breakfast ain’t that great. You need more total cals and more protien.

Monopoly

[quote]Monopoly19 wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
LOL, what a joke. This is why your still 170lbs at 5"10. Trainerdc’s breakfast looks money to me, although I would add in more eggs or egg whites though. It was at least for me very difficult to learn that I needed to eat a ton in order to gain muscle. 3000 cals is a cutting diet.

To the orignal poster, your breakfast ain’t that great. You need more total cals and more protien.

Monopoly[/quote]

3000 could be a cutting diet, it all depends on the person. I guarantee that most people don’t need anywhere NEAR 5,000 calories a day to gain weight. The fact that I’m 170 right now doesn’t tell you a whole lot about me, but you are happy to jump to any conclusion you wish. The fact of the matter is I used to weigh 155, and am currently NOT eating 5000 calories a day to gain weight.

I agree that a big breakfast is optimal for gaining weight…however, I do NOT agree that eating 1,500 calories in a single feeding is optimal for anything but fat gains.

6 meals a day x 750 cals = 4500 calories… PLENTY of food for even the most adament of bulkers. I would venture to say that only the extremely active or extremely large need more than that amount of food.

If you are particularly determined to find your optimal eating range, I suggest reading up on Tailor Made Nutrition. This will help you find YOUR optimal range instead of using a cooker cutter calorie guide.

i’m gonna have to somewhat agree with Lonnie. I eat about 3500 calories on my training days. And i’m see great gains, without any noticeble fat.

I started at 165 and now after 3 weeks of bulking i am 171.

I am an extreme endomoprh so i really watch my nutrient needs.

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Monopoly19 wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
LOL, what a joke. This is why your still 170lbs at 5"10. Trainerdc’s breakfast looks money to me, although I would add in more eggs or egg whites though. It was at least for me very difficult to learn that I needed to eat a ton in order to gain muscle. 3000 cals is a cutting diet.

To the orignal poster, your breakfast ain’t that great. You need more total cals and more protien.

Monopoly

3000 could be a cutting diet, it all depends on the person. I guarantee that most people don’t need anywhere NEAR 5,000 calories a day to gain weight. The fact that I’m 170 right now doesn’t tell you a whole lot about me, but you are happy to jump to any conclusion you wish. The fact of the matter is I used to weigh 155, and am currently NOT eating 5000 calories a day to gain weight.

I agree that a big breakfast is optimal for gaining weight…however, I do NOT agree that eating 1,500 calories in a single feeding is optimal for anything but fat gains.

6 meals a day x 750 cals = 4500 calories… PLENTY of food for even the most adament of bulkers. I would venture to say that only the extremely active or extremely large need more than that amount of food.

If you are particularly determined to find your optimal eating range, I suggest reading up on Tailor Made Nutrition. This will help you find YOUR optimal range instead of using a cooker cutter calorie guide.[/quote]

Your right. The fact that your 5"10 and 170lbs doesn’t say much about you. But the fact that you are 12%bf at those stats does. I have no qualms if that’s whay your happy with, but I think most people would agree that’s far from being big. I’d say that’s average in society.

It seems very clear to me (especially after reading Dr. Dardens arm challange) that there are a ton of skinny people here that have no clue how to gain weight. Fat gain is part of the deal when bulking! Accept it, embrace it. In my personal experience coming from being a skinny fuck (6"3 182lbs) I found that I needed massive amounts of food. 5000cals a day would be considered a total failure now by my bulking standards. Even when I first started to actually put on weight I was eating at least 5k calories per day. I’m still a long ways off from my goal, probably 50-60lbs off. The only way I know of to achieve that is to stuff my face, and train my balls off.

You were right about one thing, 1500 cals in one sitting is not optimal, 1500 cals in 3 different sittings would be a good start though :slight_smile:

Monopoly

There is a key aspect that you guys are forgetting. If you wanna be big, you have to eat like you’re big, train like you’re big, and live like you are big. Act as if. You have to act as if you are what you want to be, not what you are.

If Arnold ate for his 160 pound starting self, he never would have made it anywhere. If Michael Jordan practiced to beat the kids in college or the neighborhood, he never would have been the best ever.

Bulking at 3500 will not work. Point blank. If you guys wanna test it out, lets set a timer for one month, bulk at 3500, I will bulk at 6000 and we will see who gets more size, LBM, and strength out of the deal.

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
There is a key aspect that you guys are forgetting. If you wanna be big, you have to eat like you’re big, train like you’re big, and live like you are big. Act as if. You have to act as if you are what you want to be, not what you are.[/quote]

I don’t think anyone on here is disagreeing with the fact that if you want to be big you have to eat big. However, if you are 165 pounds and want to weigh 260… You need to eat like 175 first… Then 185, then 195. You don’t just start eating 6000 calories a day.

You have to factor in several things, but size and activity level are the main two. If you are already huge(and I mean HUGE…with muscle), I agree that a 1,000 calorie breakfast might be beneficial.

I know,for myself, that the gym comprises a good portion of my daily activity. While my job has me on my feet walking around, it don’t think it boosts my activity levels much. Some people (construction workers, athletes…) most definitely need more than I am getting, but most people on here have normal jobs.

[quote]If Arnold ate for his 160 pound starting self, he never would have made it anywhere. If Michael Jordan practiced to beat the kids in college or the neighborhood, he never would have been the best ever.

Bulking at 3500 will not work. Point blank. If you guys wanna test it out, lets set a timer for one month, bulk at 3500, I will bulk at 6000 and we will see who gets more size, LBM, and strength out of the deal. [/quote]

Most professionals that I have read estimate you can gain rougly a half pound of lean mass per week. That would put you at around 500 to 1000 calorie surplus over your maintence.

So lets do another test. Lets say we are alloted 2 years to make the best gains. Trainee 1 will eat to gain .5pounds per week, most of that muscle. Trainee 2 will eat to gain 2 pounds per week…With a good chunk of fat along with that(JB says a semi-fat person can gain 4 pounds of fat per 1 pound of muscle)

I’ll give trainee 2 the benefit of the doubt and say he only gains 2 pounds of fat per one of muscle. At the end of 18 months he has gained 24 pounds of LBM and 48 pounds of fat(But an impressive 72 pounds). He must now spend the next 6 months dieting off all that fat to look decent(the goal of most on this site). He will inevitably l,ose SOME mass on the diet…lets say 4 pounds over 6 months(generous). Bringing him down to 20 pounds of muscle.

Now, Trainee 1 will be making slower progress in terms of weight gain, but lets say he makes mostly muscle gain since his surplus isnt as high, I’ll say a 1:1 ratio. At the end of 18 months. He has gained 18 pounds of muscle and only 18 pounds of fat. He can continue to bulk for the next 6 months while our fattie above diets down, gaining even more mass while not being fat yet.

Which one do you want to be?

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Digs himself a hole.
[/quote]

Just. Stop.

Been working on the breakfast. I seem to have trouble eating alot in the morning because I eat a shit ton before I go to bed. I added some whole grain cereal, a protien shake, more peanut butter and 2 more eggs to my breakfast. Only thing though, a guy at the gym told me that you can only use about 60 g of protien at a time. Is this bullshit? If this is true, I just added alot of protien to my breakfast that Im wasting.

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
There is a key aspect that you guys are forgetting. If you wanna be big, you have to eat like you’re big, train like you’re big, and live like you are big. Act as if. You have to act as if you are what you want to be, not what you are.[/quote]

“You understand what that means? Act as if you are the fucking President of this firm. Act as if you got a 9” cock. Okay? Act as if. "

[quote]
If Arnold ate for his 160 pound starting self, he never would have made it anywhere. If Michael Jordan practiced to beat the kids in college or the neighborhood, he never would have been the best ever.

Bulking at 3500 will not work. Point blank. If you guys wanna test it out, lets set a timer for one month, bulk at 3500, I will bulk at 6000 and we will see who gets more size, LBM, and strength out of the deal. [/quote]

I have to agree with trainer.

When I bulk, hell even when I cut, most of my calories come in the morning (and PWO for bulking).

Right now I am leaning out and on a normal day I am at approx 3000Kcals, Carb-up days more like 3700-4,000Kcals, but then again I’m not what most would consider small.

You know what seperates the guys in the gym that are a shredded 250 from those with great work ethic and good form that are at 155? Its what they do outside of the gym. It is understanding that to put on serious size 3-4,000Kcals just ain’t gonna cut it.

Hell AA is a lean 274, ask him what his diet looked like to get there…

im not going to quote posts, because they are taking up too much space already. but i wanted to slap someone when i read Lonnie123’s post saying that 5-6 meals of 5-600 calories was a good bulk diet. unreal.

2500-3600cals? are you serious. i lose weight at even the high end of THAT spectrum. everyone else is right, this mentality is why you arent big. eat up little man. i would definitely recommend the O poster to get 1000+ cals for breakfast, then maybe those 600 cal meals throughout the day, then huge carbs after the workout. no ones saying he has to have 5-6 1500 cal meals. yes, that would typically produce a fatass. but, breakfast you can get away with more, and even need more. most of us arent waking up every three hours to eat in the middle of the night, and if you think about it youve missed at least 1 meal in not doing that, so a “double” breakfast is def. necessary. unless of course you aspire to be 170 average lbs.

One bowl of organic chili with garlic and melted organic cheese on top.
Two organic eggs on 2 slices of whole grain sugar/flour free organic bread.
Then two more slices of the bread for my chili(yes,I like to dip things).
And 30 before I have a red organic apple from the local farmars market.
I wash it all down with a glass or two of raw milk.

I the recommendation I gave (750 calories, 6 times a day) came out to well over 3,000 calories a day. I guess most people missed the part that said I used to weigh less than I do now, which would lead me to believe I know at least a little about gaining weight.

Let me say this again : I AGREE that a large breakfast (1,000 cals and beyond) is a good idea…IF YOU ARE BIG ALREADY. However, depending on the OP’s size, or anyones, that might not be necesary or even beneficial.

If your height/weight/activity levels put you at an abormally high calorie intake, a huge breakfast will be needed…But MOST people are not at that point. I merely chimed into this thread to give the poster a different point of view than just “Eat whatever you can man”, “Fucking eat 10,000 calories a day if you can”. Its stupid, tired diet advice that is so played out and old it will be laughed at one day.

Eating intelligently is much different than just eating for size. The kind of size you put on is directly related to your diet.

[quote]TDog305 wrote:
TrainerinDC wrote:
There is a key aspect that you guys are forgetting. If you wanna be big, you have to eat like you’re big, train like you’re big, and live like you are big. Act as if. You have to act as if you are what you want to be, not what you are.

“You understand what that means? Act as if you are the fucking President of this firm. Act as if you got a 9” cock. Okay? Act as if. "[/quote]

Gotta love the Boiler Room reference. I was thinking the same thing when I read the first “act as if”.

-LH

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

I merely chimed into this thread to give the poster a different point of view than just “Eat whatever you can man”, “Fucking eat 10,000 calories a day if you can”. Its stupid, tired diet advice that is so played out and old it will be laughed at one day.

[/quote]

If it’s stupid and tired out, why are there still so many people out buying m&f and reading this site that are skinny guys? All these people with 15" arms looking for the next secret training program to help them add the next 1/2"? It’s all about the food, period.

The bottom line isn’t that hard. It takes a ton of food over a long period of time to get big, that along with busting your ass in the gym. JB’s massive eating calc is a good start, that’s what worked well for me in the beginning.

Monopoly

Those of you that are getting pressed for time and aren’t eating as well as you want…do this:

Get a fairly portable cooler that is still big enough to haul a lot of food. Prep some meals, put in bowls/tupperware. Put it in your cooler and add some ice packs if you like.
Voila! Problem solved. Now eat like a man.
Works for plenty of people. I keep mine in my truck. Others take it into their workplace.

SteveAustin,

I suggest reading the thread that Trainer started titled “Maintaining calories”… Great thread and the shakes they talk about in there are not only insanely good but packed with what you need… Trainer’s right, load up those calories in the morning, youll see pretty quick results… good luck brotha

4 eggs a day… with the yolk eh? great advice. Do that for about a year and post your cholesterol levels so I can have a good laugh. The right amount of calories for bulking depends upon the person. I’f someone is predisposed to being a lard ass, are you going to recommend 5-6,000 calories to bulk? He’ll bulk alright, you just won’t want him to take off his shirt after. Go to the other end of the spectrum, shove 10,000 calories a day down Pee-Wee Hermans throat. His pure ecto frame can’t handle that, and he’ll just end up shitting out 6,000 of those calories unutilized.

I sit at 220 steady with about 3000 calories a day. Thats 10 pounds more than you Trainer at same height 6’1". I’m not in double digits in bodyfat% either. If I want to go up, I can add about 500 extra a day and it’ll do it. Problem is, it isn’t clean enough weight- so I don’t do it. Thats me. Doesn’t mean someone else will have the same response.

You need to take a look at your body type, factor in the realities of your personal genetic potential, and then you can get an idea of how much to up your intake to bulk. Preaching your 1500 calorie breakfast sounds alot more like chest pounding than good advice.

My breakfast includes:

1.5 servings of oatmeal
half of apple chopped
cocoa
rasians
2 hard boiled eggs
glass of skim milk
tablespoon of flaxseed also

the apple cocoa and raisans are mixed in the oatmeal with honey and flax. works out to be close to 600 cals

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
I think you’ll find that most people aren’t actually following those recommendations. I think the average gym goer could get great gains on a 3000 - 3500 calorie plan and actually follow it.

Most people honestly don’t need 5000 calories to see a rise in weight, and certainly not a 1500 calorie BOMB for a single feeding opportunity.[/quote]

I agree with that. Many of those claiming to get 5,000 calories a day are deluding themselves.