T Nation

Brainwashing 101

[quote]vroom wrote:
One that is hateful, stifling and very closed minded.

There’s a funny thing that happens when people brandish labels upon their opponents.

Often they describe the groups that view their opponent through those lables.
[/quote]

Vroom, you should really watch this. If you truly consider yourself liberal, this will offend you too. It talks about the systematic and selective stifling of free speech. It just so happens that this time it’s those on the left stifling the speech of those on the right. Just because you don’t agree with what someone says doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to say it.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I never had one professor try to force any political beliefs on me. If anything, their goal was to promote free thinking and the ability to express your opinion well in open forum. It was never an issue in my education. In fact, I now consider many of those professors some of the best teachers, period, that I ever came across in my life. I credit many of them with helping piece together parts of my education that had been missing from public education growing up. Suddenly, math was no longer a weak point but one of my strongest areas that I used to tutor others in. Writing became one of my favorite classes and Biology, Biochemistry and Anatomy were like candy. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks of college as “forced liberalism”. I think any events like that are on a very limited scale and being blown out of proportion.

I loved college. [/quote]

And you certainly turned out well. :slight_smile:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:

I never had one professor try to force any political beliefs on me. If anything, their goal was to promote free thinking and the ability to express your opinion well in open forum. It was never an issue in my education. In fact, I now consider many of those professors some of the best teachers, period, that I ever came across in my life. I credit many of them with helping piece together parts of my education that had been missing from public education growing up. Suddenly, math was no longer a weak point but one of my strongest areas that I used to tutor others in. Writing became one of my favorite classes and Biology, Biochemistry and Anatomy were like candy. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks of college as “forced liberalism”. I think any events like that are on a very limited scale and being blown out of proportion.

I loved college.

And you certainly turned out well. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

I know.

Wow, I havn’t made it to college yet but I sincerely hope it’s not as bad as this movie makes it out to be.

Speech Codes outlaw using the words “boyfriend” and “girlfriend” because they’re too gender specific?!?!?! Are you fucking kidding me? It’ll be a cold day in hell before I start discussing who’s who’s “lover” or “partner” instead of boyfriend or girlfiend.

[quote]brushga wrote:
In all my time in college I only had one professor who I knew was a conservative, and he was an econ professor. And actually, I think he was more of a libertarian. Poli Sci., Philosophy, History, etc. were usually liberal to radicals. I actually enjoyed it, college is a great time to bang up against new ideas, and for the most part the kids who fall hard for the uber-lefty stuff in college grow out of it as the years go by. That is unless they stay on campus and become professors themselves.

To be honest, I think the far lefty environment is actually only a problem for lefties, because they don’t get as many opportunities to hear dissenting opinions and are under a lot of pressure to conform.

Those right leaning kids that fight the power so to speak and go against the university establishment probably get more out of the experience because they actually have skin in the game.[/quote]

Being a “far lefty” isn’t a problem for anyone. The teachers do tend to be left leaning- that doesn’t mean that they’re hateful or bitter as Rockscar said, or retards who wouldn’t make it in the real world.

To me, the left is always the pinnacle of idealism- certainly not anything that lends itself to being bitter, hateful, selfish, greedy, or whatever else people want to attribute to these liberal professors.

I have met just as many Republicans who are kniving and ruthless, not too mention bitter and hateful, as I have leftists. In fact, probably more.

Ever think that they become professors…maybe because they enjoy working with students, engaging in exchanges of ideas, or just helping people out? I think you guys are being a bit ridiculous with this one.

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
Any Uni students in the US witnessed any of this personally?

No, but I went to college on an ROTC scholarship. There were some students who looked down on that either because they assumed my parents were “too poor” to afford college or because I was one of those evil people who was part of the military. But it wasn’t a big deal. Keep in mind I graduated in 1989 just when the Cold War was coming to an end. It didn’t bother me because I strongly believed then, as I do now, in free speech. If someone has a problem with the military they should absolutely have the right to speak up.

My law school initially didn’t allow the military to recruit on campus for the JAG Corps because of the military’s policy towards gays. That policy changed when some students informed the administration that we were paying a butt load of money to go into a profession with a highly competitive job market, and it might make future donations to the school more likely if we had access to every possible job opportunity. Money talks, eh?[/quote]

That’s humourous. It sounds like my college- no ROTC because of the same thing.

It infuriates me, because I don’t know when the college decided that they dictate what the military’s stance on anything should be, especially something like that.

College kids are flaming retards most of the time though, and somehow don’t see a problem with the fact that if you want to get into the ROTC, you can’t go to my school.

But these are the same horse’s asses that make a point to start arguments with the Army recruiters when they come up looking for people at the school…I try to make a point to shake the guy’s hands, and thank them for what they’re doing, for there are far too many snot nosed rich ass fucktards looking down on them every second that they walk around that campus.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Ever think that they become professors…maybe because they enjoy working with students, engaging in exchanges of ideas, or just helping people out? I think you guys are being a bit ridiculous with this one. [/quote]

Exactly. I had a Professor who taught multiple Math and Engineering courses who gave up a 6 figure salary to teach at a Community College because he really enjoyed improving other people’s lives through education.

He also served many years in the Peace Corps, travelling to other countries with very poor conditions to helping people who needed help much more than most Americans or Europeans.

He was one of the most intelligent, down to Earth people I knew.

I don’t get this either. I don’t remember any of my teachers trying to force liberal ideas on me, or any other ideas for that matter.
In math class, they talked about math.
In science lcass, they talked about chemistry.
In exercise science, they talked about stuff that actually matters.
In Classics, they talked about Ancient Greece.

Actually, at one point a science teacher took 60 seconds to ask students to attend a discussion among the administration over tenure policy. Does that count?

Other than that, the only political inflluence in the campus came from the students themselves.

I hated college.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I never had one professor try to force any political beliefs on me. If anything, their goal was to promote free thinking and the ability to express your opinion well in open forum. It was never an issue in my education. In fact, I now consider many of those professors some of the best teachers, period, that I ever came across in my life. I credit many of them with helping piece together parts of my education that had been missing from public education growing up. Suddenly, math was no longer a weak point but one of my strongest areas that I used to tutor others in. Writing became one of my favorite classes and Biology, Biochemistry and Anatomy were like candy. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks of college as “forced liberalism”. I think any events like that are on a very limited scale and being blown out of proportion.

I loved college. [/quote]

[quote]SWR-1222D wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Ever think that they become professors…maybe because they enjoy working with students, engaging in exchanges of ideas, or just helping people out? I think you guys are being a bit ridiculous with this one.

Exactly. I had a Professor who taught multiple Math and Engineering courses who gave up a 6 figure salary to teach at a Community College because he really enjoyed improving other people’s lives through education.

He also served many years in the Peace Corps, travelling to other countries with very poor conditions to helping people who needed help much more than most Americans or Europeans.

He was one of the most intelligent, down to Earth people I knew.[/quote]

Ok maybe a bit strong there with the bitter and hacking thing…but they are still slanted big time.

[quote]SWR-1222D wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Ever think that they become professors…maybe because they enjoy working with students, engaging in exchanges of ideas, or just helping people out? I think you guys are being a bit ridiculous with this one.

Exactly. I had a Professor who taught multiple Math and Engineering courses who gave up a 6 figure salary to teach at a Community College because he really enjoyed improving other people’s lives through education.

He also served many years in the Peace Corps, travelling to other countries with very poor conditions to helping people who needed help much more than most Americans or Europeans.

He was one of the most intelligent, down to Earth people I knew.[/quote]

Well, the documentary doesn’t say all professors are bad. And Steve Hinckle, as well as that conservative raghead, both had some supportive faculty on there side. It’s a taste of what’s at some colleges, so it behooves anybody to check a college out well before they go there.

SWR- Did you break down and watch it, I think The Prof did?

Thank you for posting this. Oddly enough I was filling out transfer papers to CalPoly yesterday. It might not be my first choice now.

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
SWR- Did you break down and watch it, I think The Prof did?
[/quote]

NO! I’m still paranoid of being brainwashed and don’t want my leftish views to be swayed.

I’m only going by what others are saying, so my opinion isn’t really valid (yet).

I just may break down eventually, but I think I might rent Fahrenheit 911 first so I can re-program my brain to think straight again. (jk)

I’ll watch it, probably tomorrow. My wife’s getting pissed that I’m still online.

I’ve been avoiding discussing the same things all over again, but this is about my profession, so I must say something:

Any professor that tries to impose his/her views – whichever they might be – on their students should not be allowed anywhere near them. Any decent teacher must a) stay focused on the subject they are teaching and b) help students think for themselves, not tell them what to think.

This “documentary” presents a very small, non-representative sample of a population of literally thousands of college professors, most of which do respect the rules above. The fact that some don’t doesn’t mean that none do.

I, for one, believe I am one of the ones that do – ask any of my students what they believe are my political inclinations, and they will not know what to answer. I am a scientist, and as such I keep my opinions to myself and stay focused on presenting scientific facts and ideas.

Even if Stanford is considered “liberal” by most, we’ve had conservative people in very high places, including, but not limited to, Condi Rice, who was Provost as you know.

If you look at Stanford’s GSB Alumni list you’ll find some very conservative people. Some I actually profoundly dislike. Some that I’d even call douchebags, like Steve Ballmer:

http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/mba/alumni/prominent_alumni.html

If we brainwashed anyone, trust me, these guys would be very different people.

We do not discriminate students based on their political views and we do not brainwash them. Our job is to help them develop, to bring out the best in them, not to assimilate them.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I never had one professor try to force any political beliefs on me. If anything, their goal was to promote free thinking and the ability to express your opinion well in open forum. It was never an issue in my education. In fact, I now consider many of those professors some of the best teachers, period, that I ever came across in my life. I credit many of them with helping piece together parts of my education that had been missing from public education growing up. Suddenly, math was no longer a weak point but one of my strongest areas that I used to tutor others in. Writing became one of my favorite classes and Biology, Biochemistry and Anatomy were like candy. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks of college as “forced liberalism”. I think any events like that are on a very limited scale and being blown out of proportion.

I loved college. [/quote]

You just made my day, X. I can safely say that most of us try every day to have an equally positive influence on all our students, and it brings me great joy every time I find a student of mine that feels about me like you do about your teachers. Thank you for that.

You also remind me of one thing: our high-schools are quite possibly the very worst in the developed world – in all possible ways, i.e., both in the way it is so poorly designed, the way it is so effective at hampering any glimpse of creativity and, in more objective terms, in the appalling results – but, on the other hand, we have some of the best colleges and best professors in the world, and we should be very proud of them. It is that unparalleled quality that keeps attracting the best minds in the world to this country, which is a fundamental part of what made it THE leader in just about any scientific endeavor. It is a feedback loop that has served us well and that we should cherish greatly.

I had several political science professors who made their political views very clear in the classroom. Of that handful, I had two professors who allowed NO dissent from their views. That was in discussion, in papers, on tests. You toed the liberal line or you did poorly in the class.

On the whole, though, I had a great relationship with most of my professors.

[quote]hspder wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I never had one professor try to force any political beliefs on me. If anything, their goal was to promote free thinking and the ability to express your opinion well in open forum. It was never an issue in my education. In fact, I now consider many of those professors some of the best teachers, period, that I ever came across in my life. I credit many of them with helping piece together parts of my education that had been missing from public education growing up. Suddenly, math was no longer a weak point but one of my strongest areas that I used to tutor others in. Writing became one of my favorite classes and Biology, Biochemistry and Anatomy were like candy. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks of college as “forced liberalism”. I think any events like that are on a very limited scale and being blown out of proportion.

I loved college.

You just made my day, X. I can safely say that most of us try every day to have an equally positive influence on all our students, and it brings me great joy every time I find a student of mine that feels about me like you do about your teachers. Thank you for that.

You also remind me of one thing: our high-schools are quite possibly the very worst in the developed world – in all possible ways, i.e., both in the way it is so poorly designed, the way it is so effective at hampering any glimpse of creativity and, in more objective terms, in the appalling results – but, on the other hand, we have some of the best colleges and best professors in the world, and we should be very proud of them. It is that unparalleled quality that keeps attracting the best minds in the world to this country, which is a fundamental part of what made it THE leader in just about any scientific endeavor. It is a feedback loop that has served us well and that we should cherish greatly.
[/quote]

hspder, what changes would you make to our nations high school system to help prepare students for higher education? I hear quite a bit about funding issues, and of course the whole issue of school choice as a means to promote better schools and give parents better options.

I personally had some excellent high school teachers who really lit a fire under my ass for whatever they were teaching. I don’t think I would have the interest in history that I do today if it weren’t for that particular teacher. However I have also had teachers who were simply punching the clock and assigned a shit ton of homework.

Anyway’s I’m digressing, I was just trying to tap the thoughts of a professor on how the high school system might be improved.

No offense Doogie, I don’t necessarily mean you, but I’m suspicious that some of the cheerleaders around here wouldn’t know the different between reasoned analysis and leftist views.

I mean, when your viewpoint is really a series of republican talking points, the whole damned world will look pretty leftish to you. It would also feel pretty constrictive if someone forced you to think and write about the issues, instead of the talking points.

Damn, now I’m going to have to watch the stupid thing aren’t I?

[quote]doogie wrote:
I had several political science professors who made their political views very clear in the classroom. Of that handful, I had two professors who allowed NO dissent from their views. That was in discussion, in papers, on tests. You toed the liberal line or you did poorly in the class.

On the whole, though, I had a great relationship with most of my professors.

[/quote]

What I have a hard time believing, and I could definitely be wrong, is that students were FORCED to think a certain way in the classroom you just described. That could easily be handled if it is true and grades were deducted for the simple reason of a difference in opinion. My political science teachers never forced a certain opinion. The books the lessons were pulled from weren’t “liberal” so it would have been a stretch to give assignments using the textbook while only giving one opinion of events to the class. Do you have examples of how you were forced to respond “liberally” in class?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

I saw Bowling for Columbine. That was enough for me.

I don’t need to take two bites of a shit sandwich to know it tastes bad.[/quote]

What are you TALKIING about??? BFC was the absolute pinnacle of quality, objective documentary filmaking, just like everything else Moore does! I mean, how could you not like the cartoon about how all the KKK guys formed the NRA, or how he went out of his way to ask those Canadian Scholars why the murder rate in the US is so much higher than in Canada? (Yes, those scholars were high-school dropouts, but everyone knows that even the most pot-headed Canadian dropout is smarter than the smartest American. Moore says so, so it must be true.) Clearly you know nothing about documentaries, and thus must be a Far Reichwingnut Crazy Man. And you have bad hair.

Thanks for reading my documentary about Zap. Now where’s my award?

I went to a mostly engineering college so this was not a worry.

I suppose if you major in political science or liberal arts there is a bit more of this crap.