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Boxing as Cardio Question

Is this workout to much to do on non lifting days,2 days a week for cardio. My workout would look like this:

Mon: lift
Tues: Boxing
Weds: Lift
Thurs: Rest
Fri: Lift
Sat: Boxing
Sun: Rest

The boxing workout is:
This session should take around 50 minutes to complete.

Warm-Up:
Five minutes on bike.

Five minutes of joint rotations for legs waist, arms and shoulders. With these, form circles varying from large to small, at each joint.

Light stretching of all major muscle groups.

Part One: Drilling The Basic Punches.

25 right (or left) cross punches.
25 left (or right) jab punches.
25 left uppercuts.
25 right uppercuts.
25 left hooks.
25 right hooks.

Part Two: Combinations.
three sets of each of the following combinations.

-Left uppercut, right cross, left hook.
-Left (or right) jab, right (or left) cross, left (or right) jab.
-Right cross (or left), left hook (or right), right cross (or left).
-Left (or right) jab, right (or left) cross, left (or right) jab, right (or left) cross, left (or right) hook.

Part Three: Three/Five Rounds Of Boxing.
2min rounds with 1:30min rest between rounds

Cool Down:
Five minutes on bike.
Light stretching.

whats the diet like?

I kickbox for my cardio becuz its much more fun than plain running. I’d actually like to know if its worth it too.

[quote]habashar wrote:
Is this workout to much to do on non lifting days,2 days a week for cardio. My workout would look like this:

Mon: lift
Tues: Boxing
Weds: Lift
Thurs: Rest
Fri: Lift
Sat: Boxing
Sun: Rest

The boxing workout is:
This session should take around 50 minutes to complete.

Warm-Up:
Five minutes on bike.

Five minutes of joint rotations for legs waist, arms and shoulders. With these, form circles varying from large to small, at each joint.

Light stretching of all major muscle groups.

Part One: Drilling The Basic Punches.

25 right (or left) cross punches.
25 left (or right) jab punches.
25 left uppercuts.
25 right uppercuts.
25 left hooks.
25 right hooks.

Part Two: Combinations.
three sets of each of the following combinations.

-Left uppercut, right cross, left hook.
-Left (or right) jab, right (or left) cross, left (or right) jab.
-Right cross (or left), left hook (or right), right cross (or left).
-Left (or right) jab, right (or left) cross, left (or right) jab, right (or left) cross, left (or right) hook.

Part Three: Three/Five Rounds Of Boxing.
2min rounds with 1:30min rest between rounds

Cool Down:
Five minutes on bike.
Light stretching. [/quote]

You should be fine since you’re only lifting 3x a week…I do a very similar routine 1-2x a week at home with my heavy bag and the workouts usually last 40-50 minutes, not including stretching and cool-down at the end.

I follow a very similar workout (and have for about the past year and a half) and it seems to work pretty well for me. I was worried about my training frequency being a bit too high, but it’s been working for my goals.

I guess it does depend on what your goals are. If you are looking to gain lots of mass it might not be optimal. I was carrying way too much body fat, so this program helped me lean out while staying fairly large and strong.

I would say it depends on how hard you hit the weights, if you recover in time for your next work out you are fine.

[quote]tdrink wrote:
I follow a very similar workout (and have for about the past year and a half) and it seems to work pretty well for me. I was worried about my training frequency being a bit too high, but it’s been working for my goals.

I guess it does depend on what your goals are. If you are looking to gain lots of mass it might not be optimal. I was carrying way too much body fat, so this program helped me lean out while staying fairly large and strong.[/quote]

I am trying to lean out just a little bit, so I was wondering what was your lifting workout like?

[quote]habashar wrote:
tdrink wrote:
I follow a very similar workout (and have for about the past year and a half) and it seems to work pretty well for me. I was worried about my training frequency being a bit too high, but it’s been working for my goals.

I guess it does depend on what your goals are. If you are looking to gain lots of mass it might not be optimal. I was carrying way too much body fat, so this program helped me lean out while staying fairly large and strong.

I am trying to lean out just a little bit, so I was wondering what was your lifting workout like?
[/quote]

For about the past year I was lifting 3x a week with a full body program. It was a combination of mostly large compound movements: deadlifts, chin-ups, pull-ups, rows, over-head presses, bench & incline presses, etc. combined with some more targeted movements: lateral raises, shrugs, press-downs, curls. I tried to keep the intensity up by alternating pushing and pulling exercises with minimal rest. So a sample of a workout might be:

1a: Chin-ups
1b: Bench press
2a: Upright Rows
2b: Lateral Raise
3a: Weighted Dips
3b: Hammer curls
4a: Military press
4b: Deadlifts

I was basically using 3x8-10 for all exercises and working heavy enough to be challenged while keeping 1 or 2 reps away from failure/breakdown of form. Like I said, not a lot of rest (60-90 seconds between exercises) but being that I was A/B’ing each exercise it worked out just fine and sweating plenty.

After doing some reading here I decided to change up my lifting routine to be a bit more body part specific, working on two-three body parts per session (ex: back and shoulders) and adding the all important squat into my routine. I’ve beed doing this for the past month in an effort to regain some mass and to challenge my body in a new way…though I still use plenty of compound movements.

The boxing and full-body workouts worked really well for me. In about a year I went from low 20’s in bf% down to just over 11%. I also gained considerable strength, size and definition (particularly in my shoulders, lats and chest). Which leads me to believe that the idea that you can’t cut bf while gaining muscle mass is completely bogus, but that is a discussion for another time.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions. I love the intensity of boxing. I highly recommend it to those who are looking for a good way to incorporate strength and cardio training.

Hey Tdrink, what was your food intake like during that year. That is kinda what I am shooting for, decreasing bf and increasing lbm. What was/is your height weight before and currently.

[quote]boss99er wrote:
Hey Tdrink, what was your food intake like during that year. That is kinda what I am shooting for, decreasing bf and increasing lbm. What was/is your height weight before and currently.[/quote]

I started the year @ 6’2" and 238lbs around 24%bf. I ended the year @ 198lbs 13.3%bf. I am currently (after an additional 4 months) 206lbs. and just under 12% bf. My waist size has gone from 38" down to 32".

I cleaned up my food intake alot and really cleaned it up in the last 3-4 months. In those 3-4 months I actually gained 9+lbs of lean muscle mass while trimming 2+lbs of bf (which is why I believe that you can gain lmm while cutting bf, I did it myself).

My basal metabolic rate was measure at about 2315 k/cals a day (now up to around 2450 k/cals) and I was ingesting in the neighborhood of 2650 k/cals a day. So you’re probably wondering how I lost weight with an excess of calories. Simply, I work out pretty intensely (you know how boxing and lifting workouts can be) so I was still managing to burn more calories that I was taking in.

The key for me was not really cutting calories(though I definitely did) but eating clean. Very few processed foods if any. I’d rotate between cereal and eggs in the morning. Cereal is definitely not the best option, but I really like it so I haven’t cut it out. I have gone to organic cereal without high fructose corn syrup or other junky sweetners in it.

Plenty of vegetables, some fruit (not too much as I was/am really trying to restrict sugar intake, even natural sugar), plenty of lean meats (beef, pork, chicken), yogurt, healthy fats (avocados, almonds, olive oil). It really isn’t rocket science, I just try to make sensible decisions at every meal and eat enough food to continue to grow (as I wouldn’t mind putting on a bit of muscle mass) while not ingesting foods which have a tendency to store fat.

Combine that with 5 workouts a week that are challenging/intense and that seemed to work for me.
I should add that mass gaining is easier for me than staying lean. As you can see by my last 4 months, I can pack on muscle but I have to be really careful about putting on fat as my body just likes to get big any way it can. I’ve been as high as 260lbs in the not so distant past, so I can’t go too crazy with the food like some others can.

But I do make sure that I am well fed, careful not to get too hungry and careful to make good, clean food decisions. Nothing you haven’t heard or read before I am sure.

As far as supps go, I would say most people don’t need them. I do drink protein shakes after lifting workouts and started taking creatine about 2 weeks ago as I am curious to see if it will help me put on some more lmm.

For about the past year I was lifting 3x a week with a full body program. It was a combination of mostly large compound movements: deadlifts, chin-ups, pull-ups, rows, over-head presses, bench & incline presses, etc. combined with some more targeted movements: lateral raises, shrugs, press-downs, curls. I tried to keep the intensity up by alternating pushing and pulling exercises with minimal rest. So a sample of a workout might be:

1a: Chin-ups
1b: Bench press
2a: Upright Rows
2b: Lateral Raise
3a: Weighted Dips
3b: Hammer curls
4a: Military press
4b: Deadlifts

I was basically using 3x8-10 for all exercises and working heavy enough to be challenged while keeping 1 or 2 reps away from failure/breakdown of form. Like I said, not a lot of rest (60-90 seconds between exercises) but being that I was A/B’ing each exercise it worked out just fine and sweating plenty.

After doing some reading here I decided to change up my lifting routine to be a bit more body part specific, working on two-three body parts per session (ex: back and shoulders) and adding the all important squat into my routine. I’ve beed doing this for the past month in an effort to regain some mass and to challenge my body in a new way…though I still use plenty of compound movements.

The boxing and full-body workouts worked really well for me. In about a year I went from low 20’s in bf% down to just over 11%. I also gained considerable strength, size and definition (particularly in my shoulders, lats and chest). Which leads me to believe that the idea that you can’t cut bf while gaining muscle mass is completely bogus, but that is a discussion for another time.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions. I love the intensity of boxing. I highly recommend it to those who are looking for a good way to incorporate strength and cardio training.
[/quote]

Thanks for all the help so far. Just had a few more questions for ya. First, for your lifting, do you do 1a/b then rest 60-90 secs then do 2 a/b then rest 60-90? Or do you rest after a, then b? Second, do you do 3 sets of 1a/b then 3 sets of 2 a/b? Third, I just finished ABBH, so i had been doing chin-ups and weighted dips in my workout. However the weighted dips i did lean forward for more of my chest.

SHould I continue with the dips just not lean forward? ALso is there any substitute for chin-ups that i could do since i just did them in my last workout(same thing with deadlift)? Hopefully that makes some sense. thanks

[quote]habashar wrote:
For about the past year I was lifting 3x a week with a full body program. It was a combination of mostly large compound movements: deadlifts, chin-ups, pull-ups, rows, over-head presses, bench & incline presses, etc. combined with some more targeted movements: lateral raises, shrugs, press-downs, curls. I tried to keep the intensity up by alternating pushing and pulling exercises with minimal rest. So a sample of a workout might be:

1a: Chin-ups
1b: Bench press
2a: Upright Rows
2b: Lateral Raise
3a: Weighted Dips
3b: Hammer curls
4a: Military press
4b: Deadlifts

I was basically using 3x8-10 for all exercises and working heavy enough to be challenged while keeping 1 or 2 reps away from failure/breakdown of form. Like I said, not a lot of rest (60-90 seconds between exercises) but being that I was A/B’ing each exercise it worked out just fine and sweating plenty.

After doing some reading here I decided to change up my lifting routine to be a bit more body part specific, working on two-three body parts per session (ex: back and shoulders) and adding the all important squat into my routine. I’ve beed doing this for the past month in an effort to regain some mass and to challenge my body in a new way…though I still use plenty of compound movements.

The boxing and full-body workouts worked really well for me. In about a year I went from low 20’s in bf% down to just over 11%. I also gained considerable strength, size and definition (particularly in my shoulders, lats and chest). Which leads me to believe that the idea that you can’t cut bf while gaining muscle mass is completely bogus, but that is a discussion for another time.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions. I love the intensity of boxing. I highly recommend it to those who are looking for a good way to incorporate strength and cardio training.

Thanks for all the help so far. Just had a few more questions for ya. First, for your lifting, do you do 1a/b then rest 60-90 secs then do 2 a/b then rest 60-90? Or do you rest after a, then b? Second, do you do 3 sets of 1a/b then 3 sets of 2 a/b? Third, I just finished ABBH, so i had been doing chin-ups and weighted dips in my workout. However the weighted dips i did lean forward for more of my chest.

SHould I continue with the dips just not lean forward? ALso is there any substitute for chin-ups that i could do since i just did them in my last workout(same thing with deadlift)? Hopefully that makes some sense. thanks[/quote]

First off, I should say that I am not a fitness professional. I’ve definitely read a ton and experimented a bunch, but I just figured out what worked for me and stuck with it. I read in another post where someone was saying that all this (nutrition, developing workout programs) is mostly about trial and error. I have to say I mostly agree with that. There are some universal truths, but you just need to try new things and see how your body reacts.

OK, that being said, the sample program I gave you was just that, an example on what I’d do on any given day of my full-body workout. By no means are these the only exercise you should do. If you followed that specific set of exercises on Monday, Wednesdays exercises should be varied (incline instead of flat bench, front raises instead of lateral raises, flyes, pushup, etc.). I feel it is really important to mix up your exercises in that each variation will really target the muscle in unique ways…thus leading to further growth. You certainly don’t want to bench press 3x a week.

I rest about 60 seconds between each exercise. So 1a, rest 60 seconds. 1b rest 60 seconds. Then back to 1a. Once I complete 1a and 1b, I move on to 2a and 2b. I keep the rest to 60 seconds between groups of exercises as well. Meaning I would take 60 seconds between my last set of 1b and my first set of 2a. Hope that is not confusing.

Oh, and I’m not really staring at the clock either. I just shoot for around 60 seconds. No need to be super precise. Nothing is going to happen if you are 5-10 seconds off either way. But keeping it all moving and keeping the rest minimal is a good way to get in some extra fat-burning with your weight training program. And, by all means, keep the intensity high. Sweating during your weight training is by no means a bad thing!

I lean forward during my dips too in the hopes to get a bit more chest as I tend to have very overactive shoulders and triceps, so anything that I can do to maximize activating my chest is what I shoot for. I’m happy with my tri development and they tend to get plenty of indirect work with a lot of the other movements I use. You may feel differently about yours. Weighted dips are a good way to activate you tri’s so maybe you want to try them straight up and down. Or maybe you want to make one of your exercises a different type of tricep movement (skull crushers, pull downs, etc.). One of the things I like about my program is that it is very fluid, if I find a movement works for my development, I incorporate it into the workout. It’s just that simple.

Though I wouldn’t recommend it because it is such a great totally body strength exercise and a very intense exercise (remember, intensity is good if you are looking to get so fat burning into your weight lifting routine) you could lose the deadlift. Hard to find a single good replacement for it as it is such an effective exercise. Are you squatting? If not, that’s another great compound movement to incorporate.

I find chins to be very effective for lats and bis. I can activate those muscle groups really well with chins and it saves me from feeling I have to do too much isolated bicep work (which delivers a lot less bang for your time being as it only works on muscle group directly). But you could give pull-ups a shot. Another great intense exercise that works a lot of posterior chain muscles really well.

At the end of the day, it’s really up to you. I think we (and I include myself) have a tendency to overthink these things. If you get a good variety of movements, keep up the intensity of your workouts, use good, safe form and stay dedicated over the long haul, you’ll see very good results. Listen to your body and see what works for you.

Tdrink, your story is pretty much a mirror of mine. I started at about 275 a couple years ago. I am 6’2" and was down to about 225 about a year ago. I am now down to 200 but would like to gain more muscle, even if it means seeing that scale go up. I have some fat left, so I am hoping there is a chance that fat will come off as the lbm goes on. Any other tips.

I eat very clean, but I could probably eat a little cleaner yet. I love fruit, so maybe that is my pitfall. I probably eat about 4 pieces a day, usually apples, bananas, peaches. I have tried to cut almost all bread out of my diet and have tried to reduce milk intake. I only use skim, but there is still alot of sugar in skim milk. So anyway, any tips would be great.

Oh yeah, I lift heavy 3 days a week with a 3x5 workout. The big 6 plus some curls to catch my biceps up. I also go bike riding for cardio a couple times a week. Usually its HIIT, but sometimes I go on longer cruises.

[quote]boss99er wrote:
Tdrink, your story is pretty much a mirror of mine. I started at about 275 a couple years ago. I am 6’2" and was down to about 225 about a year ago. I am now down to 200 but would like to gain more muscle, even if it means seeing that scale go up. I have some fat left, so I am hoping there is a chance that fat will come off as the lbm goes on. Any other tips.

I eat very clean, but I could probably eat a little cleaner yet. I love fruit, so maybe that is my pitfall. I probably eat about 4 pieces a day, usually apples, bananas, peaches. I have tried to cut almost all bread out of my diet and have tried to reduce milk intake. I only use skim, but there is still alot of sugar in skim milk. So anyway, any tips would be great.

Oh yeah, I lift heavy 3 days a week with a 3x5 workout. The big 6 plus some curls to catch my biceps up. I also go bike riding for cardio a couple times a week. Usually its HIIT, but sometimes I go on longer cruises.[/quote]

Not sure what tips I could give you as it does seem like we are in the same place. I’m not really done shedding the fat either as I’d like to get down closer to 8-9%. And, even though my eating habits are leaps and bounds better than they once were, I could probably clean up a bit more and it would make a difference. But I’m a married dude with a regular (non-atheletic) job so finding motivation to further dedicate myself to eating even better/training even harder is tough.

Luckily the plan I’ve been following is still yielding results, though I am worried that these last few pounds of body fat (I’d like to drop about 8 more pounds of the stuff) is going to be tough to drop.

The fruit may be something just specific to me. When I had my blood work done the results came back that I had a bit of an intolerance to sugar so the Dr. recommended that I cut down to no more than 2 pieces of fruit a day. Before that I was also snacking on dried fruit quite a bit so I think cutting that out also made a big difference. 4 pieces of fruit doesn’t sound like too much to me unless you have a specific problem with sugar. That being said, I believe it’s much easier to get leaner when you cut down/out the sugar…especially non-post workout.

Listen, bro. You cut down 75 pounds. That’s incredible. Clearly you have figured out what works for you. I think getting that last bit of fat off, putting on that last few pounds of lean muscle, transforming from a guy who looks like hes in good shape to a looking like a guy whose really in good shape is really the hard part. Especially if you are a “weekend warrior” and not someone who can dedicate their life to it. But keep up the intensity, make the right nutrition decisions and only good things can happen.

Just curious, why do you go 3x5? Are you looking to get much stronger or are you just shooting for aesthetics. If it’s for look, I would recommend possibly upping the amount of sets or keeping the sets and upping the reps. That being said, I have no idea what your total volume is for any given workout, so that might be to much. Are you doing the big 6 plus curls every time you lift?

Yeah, right now I do the 6 plus curls every time. I do the 3x5 for stregth and to prevent myself from burning out my CNS by doing that many lifts each time. I am someone who believes that if you gain strength, you will also gain muscle mass. This topic has been debated several times but in my case, that seems to be true.

I dont lift heavier without seeing changes in the mirror. In a few weeks I am going to switch to the Ripped, Rugged, 2.0 workout from ruggedmag.com. That uses 5x5 but you go as heavy as you can and only do two lifts per session. Its a body part split. I have always done full body so I figured I would give it a go and see what happens.

The idea that strength equals size makes absolutely perfect sense to me. I’ve also read that 3x8-12 is the ultimate formula for hypertrophy. Don’t think either approach is wrong, just different ways to get to the same place.

I do think the idea of switching it up at this point is a good one. I’ve also gone to a body part split in the past month or so, but I’m not doing it as extremely as you are (essentially, instead of doing full body workouts everytime I am focusing on 2-3 muscle groups for each session and rotating).

Going 5x5 with two exercises would allow you to go pretty heavy I imagine. How many days a week does the program have you lifting?

Well, because the intensity is so low, it has you working out 6 times a week. There are only 5 days worth on the program, but it says to just keep alternating through them with one rest day a week. I will try that at first and if it seems to wear me down too much, I will just go to 5 days a week.

I also considered doing a back and shoulder specialization workout. I am kinda imbalanced there. My chest is way bigger than my back and shoulders. I might do that for 3 weeks or so before I do the 5x5 split. Not sure yet.

[quote]tdrink wrote:
the sample program I gave you was just that, an example on what I’d do on any given day of my full-body workout. By no means are these the only exercise you should do. If you followed that specific set of exercises on Monday, Wednesdays exercises should be varied (incline instead of flat bench, front raises instead of lateral raises, flyes, pushup, etc.). I feel it is really important to mix up your exercises in that each variation will really target the muscle in unique ways…thus leading to further growth. You certainly don’t want to bench press 3x a week.

I rest about 60 seconds between each exercise. So 1a, rest 60 seconds. 1b rest 60 seconds. Then back to 1a. Once I complete 1a and 1b, I move on to 2a and 2b. I keep the rest to 60 seconds between groups of exercises as well. Meaning I would take 60 seconds between my last set of 1b and my first set of 2a. Hope that is not confusing.

I lean forward during my dips too in the hopes to get a bit more chest as I tend to have very overactive shoulders and triceps, so anything that I can do to maximize activating my chest is what I shoot for. I’m happy with my tri development and they tend to get plenty of indirect work with a lot of the other movements I use. You may feel differently about yours. Weighted dips are a good way to activate you tri’s so maybe you want to try them straight up and down. Or maybe you want to make one of your exercises a different type of tricep movement (skull crushers, pull downs, etc.). One of the things I like about my program is that it is very fluid, if I find a movement works for my development, I incorporate it into the workout. It’s just that simple.

Though I wouldn’t recommend it because it is such a great totally body strength exercise and a very intense exercise (remember, intensity is good if you are looking to get so fat burning into your weight lifting routine) you could lose the deadlift. Hard to find a single good replacement for it as it is such an effective exercise. Are you squatting? If not, that’s another great compound movement to incorporate.

I find chins to be very effective for lats and bis. I can activate those muscle groups really well with chins and it saves me from feeling I have to do too much isolated bicep work (which delivers a lot less bang for your time being as it only works on muscle group directly). But you could give pull-ups a shot. Another great intense exercise that works a lot of posterior chain muscles really well.

At the end of the day, it’s really up to you. I think we (and I include myself) have a tendency to overthink these things. If you get a good variety of movements, keep up the intensity of your workouts, use good, safe form and stay dedicated over the long haul, you’ll see very good results. Listen to your body and see what works for you.
[/quote]

You had said to change up the exercises say on fridays, so should i change each exercise from 1a all the way through 4b? I to have experimented with numerous different workouts and some have worked and some havent. However, i am not confident in my abilities to make my own workout, so when i do find one that has worked I want to know everything about it so I can yield the most results for myself.

Yeah man, it’s a good workout. Just don’t be placid, take your zinc supplement and hate that bag! It will be very rewarding. Have fun