Finished my first boxing session. Was very fun and intense…I can defnitely see that it’ll be affecting my gym workouts. My shoulders have no endurance and was very hard for me moving with my hands up for more than 50 seconds. Going to stop working out for 2 or 3 weeks to see how things go with boxing and then adjut the volume in my workouts. Going 5 days a week boxing.
[quote]DazeDolo wrote:
Finished my first boxing session. Was very fun and intense…I can defnitely see that it’ll be affecting my gym workouts. My shoulders have no endurance and was very hard for me moving with my hands up for more than 50 seconds. Going to stop working out for 2 or 3 weeks to see how things go with boxing and then adjut the volume in my workouts. Going 5 days a week boxing.[/quote]
Good for you mate. You may find you want to give it more than 3 weeks, but it’ll be easy enough to assess that when you get there. It’s good that you’re prepared to take it seriously. The first few weeks are going to suck, you are going to hurt like hell all the time, you’re going to wonder if it is worth it. If you can stick it out past the first few months, which most people can’t, I’m confident you’ll never look back. Let us know how you get on.
[quote]magick wrote:
Grappling, on the other hand, is a different story. Making weight is far less punishing for grappling (many contests and tournaments that I know of don’t even have weight requirements), and as such you have people who look far more like they’re supposed to for an athlete of their caliber and size.
Not to mention, having a 300lb bench or a 400lb squat won’t make you punch faster in the slightest. Having a 300lb bench does give you the power to push off that 170lb guy lying on top of you when compared to a 200lb bench.
[/quote]
This thread is about giving the OP advice on boxing and lifting, do I don’t want to go on a tangent. But if you seriously believe that first statement, then you respectfully are very uneducated or ill informed about the nature of grappling competitions or grappling in general. So, please don’t give newb’s advice on things that you are not knowledgeable about.
[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
No love for meatheads in the combat forum :([/quote]
Actually, I think meatheads have potential when it comes to combat sports. Fight sports take hard work, dedication, and sacrifice to get anywhere. Someone who has consistently put in the work to achieve good results in weightlifting probably has the right fundamental attitude to stick it at a fight gym, where most people don’t.
My two primary objections to meatheads are:
-
Many think that just being big makes them a hard nut. In my experience, they’ll often walk into a boxing gym and throw their weight around outside of the gym, staring people down, gorilla walking etc. They’ll then get fucked up by a small kid who’s balls haven’t dropped yet. Then they’ll never be seen in the gym again.
-
Most are unwilling to sacrifice their ‘gains’ to become competent fighters. No problem with that, just don’t waste my time playing at being a fighter. Being even a halfway decent fighter is time consuming. I don’t compete any more, and I lift a few weights, but when I’m lifting, I’m thinking about boxing, when I’m resting between sets I’m shadow boxing, hitting bags, etc etc. The result is, I will never be a high level weight lifter, because I’m always distracted. My every spare moment is still focused on being a fighter, it’s who I am. I could never bulk up, or reduce my conditioning below a point where I was able to spar twelve hard rounds. The point basically is that being a meathead is at odds with being a good fighter.[/quote]
I largely agree with your post. Just a few thoughts, There seems to be an underlying buthurt with some combat athletes that are good fighters yet don’t look good. Laymen, meaning most of society will always think the jacked out of his mind guy is a better fighter.
Isn’t their room for a comfortable equilibrium between fight skills and aesthetics? I’m not talking about being a competitive fighter either. More training to defend yourself, which for some like is me escaping the situation or being able to escalate the level of violence to survive the situation.
[/quote]
-
I don’t disagree, but as Donnydarkoirl mentioned above, there are many other reasons why muscle bound guys have to work hard for a fighters respect. You’re certainly right that that laymen will always think the jacked guy is the real danger man. That said, most of society would get whooped up and down the street by a real fighter, so the value of their judgement could be called into question. Looking scary only keeps you safe around guys who don’t want to fight.
-
I think there is certainly room for guys like you to do some aesthetic training. Noone on here would deny that for street violence, being a bigger, stronger FIGHTER, is always an advantage. The emphasis is just on being a fighter, rather than the big and strong part. With that said, I know a decent number of guys who are enforcers, prizefighters, or generally all round dangerous characters, and none of them have particularly aesthetic physiques. For most of them, being able to carry an extra stone or so of fat is more valuable than pretty muscles, the extra weight they can bring to bear without sacrificing performance is worth disregarding aesthetics for. [/quote]
Most people have never even been hit hard in the face, meatheads and mcflabies. I’m always amazed by people’s overconfidence in their fighting ability. As far and pride and perception go I would be a little perturbed by society’s acceptance of big as badass and no love for the skilled fighter.
I didn’t grow up in an urban culture, so I can’t comment. Most of the people I know that were shaddy characters used guns and knives.
Just my take home message would be is not all meat heads are disrespectful to the combat arts. Oh, and if I start training at a real boxing gym. I’m going to act clumsy as fuck just to sucker in some meathead hater 
[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
The point is, if you’re not looking to compete, you’d be doing yourself and the gym a favour if you did boxercise or bought yourself a bag. [/quote]
London, I’ve really got to say, I truly, strongly disagree with this. Really.
I’m not sure if I’ll ever compete, honestly. I’d have to get my shoulder surgically fixed first, and with my career I don’t have the time now, and with how shaky shoulder surgery ends up, I might never have that time or inclination.
However, that doesn’t mean that I, or anyone like me, shouldn’t find their way into the boxing gym. It doesn’t mean that this dude shouldn’t either. I know what you’re saying with the more muscular, swaggering types who you hate - every gym gets them. But not everyone who doesn’t want to fight is like that.
And really - they may not know they want to fight right away. That hunger may grow in them as they train, and after six months, they make the choice to really go hard.
As long as you’re willing to work and willing to learn, there’s a home for you in a boxing gym. It’s not up to you, or me, or anyone else to tell anyone that they shouldn’t go and learn what they want to learn in pursuit of finding what most of us look at as an indispensable lifestyle (and we know it’s way more than just a sport.)
Elitism is for bodybuilders. It’s not for boxers. We should welcome all.
[quote]DazeDolo wrote:
Finished my first boxing session. Was very fun and intense…I can defnitely see that it’ll be affecting my gym workouts. My shoulders have no endurance and was very hard for me moving with my hands up for more than 50 seconds. Going to stop working out for 2 or 3 weeks to see how things go with boxing and then adjut the volume in my workouts. Going 5 days a week boxing.[/quote]
Good. Stick with it. You will find it to be all consuming.
Most of the advice given here I agree with though. Gaining muscle (or, really, weight of any kind) while boxing is going to be difficult.
Most guys just don’t have enough in the tank to do it all.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
London, I’ve really got to say, I truly, strongly disagree with this. Really.
I’m not sure if I’ll ever compete, honestly. I’d have to get my shoulder surgically fixed first, and with my career I don’t have the time now, and with how shaky shoulder surgery ends up, I might never have that time or inclination.
However, that doesn’t mean that I, or anyone like me, shouldn’t find their way into the boxing gym. It doesn’t mean that this dude shouldn’t either. I know what you’re saying with the more muscular, swaggering types who you hate - every gym gets them. But not everyone who doesn’t want to fight is like that.
And really - they may not know they want to fight right away. That hunger may grow in them as they train, and after six months, they make the choice to really go hard.
As long as you’re willing to work and willing to learn, there’s a home for you in a boxing gym. It’s not up to you, or me, or anyone else to tell anyone that they shouldn’t go and learn what they want to learn in pursuit of finding what most of us look at as an indispensable lifestyle (and we know it’s way more than just a sport.)
Elitism is for bodybuilders. It’s not for boxers. We should welcome all.[/quote]
I agree. In our sports decline the past few years, we should welcome all interested, embrace their enthusiasm and ensure our sports viability into the future.
However…
I don’t know LondonBoxer at all, but just a couple of points I have deduced.
Given his username, I take it he trains/coaches/competes in the UK’s capital.
I spent five months of last year commuting through London; training opportunistically; as often as I could.
I attended Rooney’s, TKO, Peacocks and a miscellany of other gyms that were open to me (sadly I never made it to the acclaimed Islington or Repton gyms.)
But from my intrusions, I learned that boxing is thriving in the UK. At an amateur level it is doing well, at professional level its great, but also the casual user and White Collar enthusiast are welcome and in attendance.
I can hand on heart say in my home gym or any gym in the west of Ireland, this could never happen; these people could not be accomodated as the gyms are generally much smaller and more than filled with competitors.
However, in London gyms; to make way this is essential; to pay Rent, rates and utilities.
With all due respect; I say this only as a raw fact; I mean no offense to anyone But sometimes for the serious competitor, it can be a nuisance to share space with someone not focused on competing.
No matter how motivated you are, there is no greater motivation than an opponent’s shadow hanging over night and day for 8 weeks before a fight.
To have a fitness enthusiast on the next bag can and does affect quality training.
[quote]donnydarkoirl wrote:
I agree. In our sports decline the past few years, we should welcome all interested, embrace their enthusiasm and ensure our sports viability into the future.
However…
I don’t know LondonBoxer at all, but just a couple of points I have deduced.
Given his username, I take it he trains/coaches/competes in the UK’s capital.
I spent five months of last year commuting through London; training opportunistically; as often as I could.
I attended Rooney’s, TKO, Peacocks and a miscellany of other gyms that were open to me (sadly I never made it to the acclaimed Islington or Repton gyms.)
But from my intrusions, I learned that boxing is thriving in the UK. At an amateur level it is doing well, at professional level its great, but also the casual user and White Collar enthusiast are welcome and in attendance.
I can hand on heart say in my home gym or any gym in the west of Ireland, this could never happen; these people could not be accomodated as the gyms are generally much smaller and more than filled with competitors.
However, in London gyms; to make way this is essential; to pay Rent, rates and utilities.
With all due respect; I say this only as a raw fact; I mean no offense to anyone But sometimes for the serious competitor, it can be a nuisance to share space with someone not focused on competing.
No matter how motivated you are, there is no greater motivation than an opponent’s shadow hanging over night and day for 8 weeks before a fight.
To have a fitness enthusiast on the next bag can and does affect quality training.
[/quote]
Wow, the new guy is a bitch…
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
The point is, if you’re not looking to compete, you’d be doing yourself and the gym a favour if you did boxercise or bought yourself a bag. [/quote]
London, I’ve really got to say, I truly, strongly disagree with this. Really.
I’m not sure if I’ll ever compete, honestly. I’d have to get my shoulder surgically fixed first, and with my career I don’t have the time now, and with how shaky shoulder surgery ends up, I might never have that time or inclination.
However, that doesn’t mean that I, or anyone like me, shouldn’t find their way into the boxing gym. It doesn’t mean that this dude shouldn’t either. I know what you’re saying with the more muscular, swaggering types who you hate - every gym gets them. But not everyone who doesn’t want to fight is like that.
And really - they may not know they want to fight right away. That hunger may grow in them as they train, and after six months, they make the choice to really go hard.
As long as you’re willing to work and willing to learn, there’s a home for you in a boxing gym. It’s not up to you, or me, or anyone else to tell anyone that they shouldn’t go and learn what they want to learn in pursuit of finding what most of us look at as an indispensable lifestyle (and we know it’s way more than just a sport.)
Elitism is for bodybuilders. It’s not for boxers. We should welcome all.[/quote]
I actually agree with you mate. My post was in the context of a question that seemed to be asking whether it was possible to do boxing as a secondary thing, prioritising weight training. To me, that is a very serious difference from someone like you, who throws themselves into the sport trains hard, spars where possible, but just isn’t in a position to compete.
The point I was hoping to make, obviously badly, is that there is no place for people half-arsing boxing, because floor space is limited. If someone isn’t going to look to dedicate themselves to the sport, then I do believe they shouldn’t waste a boxing gym’s time.
[quote]donnydarkoirl wrote:
[quote]donnydarkoirl wrote:
I agree. In our sports decline the past few years, we should welcome all interested, embrace their enthusiasm and ensure our sports viability into the future.
However…
I don’t know LondonBoxer at all, but just a couple of points I have deduced.
Given his username, I take it he trains/coaches/competes in the UK’s capital.
I spent five months of last year commuting through London; training opportunistically; as often as I could.
I attended Rooney’s, TKO, Peacocks and a miscellany of other gyms that were open to me (sadly I never made it to the acclaimed Islington or Repton gyms.)
But from my intrusions, I learned that boxing is thriving in the UK. At an amateur level it is doing well, at professional level its great, but also the casual user and White Collar enthusiast are welcome and in attendance.
I can hand on heart say in my home gym or any gym in the west of Ireland, this could never happen; these people could not be accomodated as the gyms are generally much smaller and more than filled with competitors.
However, in London gyms; to make way this is essential; to pay Rent, rates and utilities.
With all due respect; I say this only as a raw fact; I mean no offense to anyone But sometimes for the serious competitor, it can be a nuisance to share space with someone not focused on competing.
No matter how motivated you are, there is no greater motivation than an opponent’s shadow hanging over night and day for 8 weeks before a fight.
To have a fitness enthusiast on the next bag can and does affect quality training.
[/quote]
Wow, the new guy is a bitch…
[/quote]
I think you’re spot on here mate. (Edit: with the long post, not the bitch post. Saw how that might be read)
You get bonus points for your deduction as well. I’ve boxed out of one of those gyms all my life.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
The point is, if you’re not looking to compete, you’d be doing yourself and the gym a favour if you did boxercise or bought yourself a bag. [/quote]
London, I’ve really got to say, I truly, strongly disagree with this. Really.
I’m not sure if I’ll ever compete, honestly. I’d have to get my shoulder surgically fixed first, and with my career I don’t have the time now, and with how shaky shoulder surgery ends up, I might never have that time or inclination.
However, that doesn’t mean that I, or anyone like me, shouldn’t find their way into the boxing gym. It doesn’t mean that this dude shouldn’t either. I know what you’re saying with the more muscular, swaggering types who you hate - every gym gets them. But not everyone who doesn’t want to fight is like that.
And really - they may not know they want to fight right away. That hunger may grow in them as they train, and after six months, they make the choice to really go hard.
As long as you’re willing to work and willing to learn, there’s a home for you in a boxing gym. It’s not up to you, or me, or anyone else to tell anyone that they shouldn’t go and learn what they want to learn in pursuit of finding what most of us look at as an indispensable lifestyle (and we know it’s way more than just a sport.)
Elitism is for bodybuilders. It’s not for boxers. We should welcome all.[/quote]
I agree with this mostly.
I started boxing at 15 because I was looking to do something for fitness and because I wanted to get my dick sucked by chicks with fighter fetish. Had no intention of actually being a fighter.
A year later I was scared as fuck but I wanted to compete. Been in love with the sport ever since.
[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
The point is, if you’re not looking to compete, you’d be doing yourself and the gym a favour if you did boxercise or bought yourself a bag. [/quote]
London, I’ve really got to say, I truly, strongly disagree with this. Really.
I’m not sure if I’ll ever compete, honestly. I’d have to get my shoulder surgically fixed first, and with my career I don’t have the time now, and with how shaky shoulder surgery ends up, I might never have that time or inclination.
However, that doesn’t mean that I, or anyone like me, shouldn’t find their way into the boxing gym. It doesn’t mean that this dude shouldn’t either. I know what you’re saying with the more muscular, swaggering types who you hate - every gym gets them. But not everyone who doesn’t want to fight is like that.
And really - they may not know they want to fight right away. That hunger may grow in them as they train, and after six months, they make the choice to really go hard.
As long as you’re willing to work and willing to learn, there’s a home for you in a boxing gym. It’s not up to you, or me, or anyone else to tell anyone that they shouldn’t go and learn what they want to learn in pursuit of finding what most of us look at as an indispensable lifestyle (and we know it’s way more than just a sport.)
Elitism is for bodybuilders. It’s not for boxers. We should welcome all.[/quote]
I actually agree with you mate. My post was in the context of a question that seemed to be asking whether it was possible to do boxing as a secondary thing, prioritising weight training. To me, that is a very serious difference from someone like you, who throws themselves into the sport trains hard, spars where possible, but just isn’t in a position to compete.
The point I was hoping to make, obviously badly, is that there is no place for people half-arsing boxing, because floor space is limited. If someone isn’t going to look to dedicate themselves to the sport, then I do believe they shouldn’t waste a boxing gym’s time.
[/quote]
With that, I wholeheartedly agree.
Thanks for the encouraging comments… Anything i can do outside of the gym to help improve my performance and me some sort of edge?
[quote]DazeDolo wrote:
Thanks for the encouraging comments… Anything i can do outside of the gym to help improve my performance and me some sort of edge? [/quote]
Run.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]DazeDolo wrote:
Thanks for the encouraging comments… Anything i can do outside of the gym to help improve my performance and me some sort of edge? [/quote]
Run.[/quote]
Run and shadow box.
There’s some quote about excellence being the result of what you repeatedly do. That is very true with boxing. Any chance I get, I throw a jab or two, or a combo, or work on a slip, shot, set up etc. Once you have some tuition under your belt, you can do a lot to improve your skills by yourself practising in front of the mirror.
[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]DazeDolo wrote:
Thanks for the encouraging comments… Anything i can do outside of the gym to help improve my performance and me some sort of edge? [/quote]
Run.[/quote]
Run and shadow box.
There’s some quote about excellence being the result of what you repeatedly do. That is very true with boxing. Any chance I get, I throw a jab or two, or a combo, or work on a slip, shot, set up etc. Once you have some tuition under your belt, you can do a lot to improve your skills by yourself practising in front of the mirror. [/quote]
Got it. Was told to do this by my trainer today .
Also, run with your hands up in your guard. It’ll build up the stamina you need without you having to get punched in the face.
[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
Isn’t their room for a comfortable equilibrium between fight skills and aesthetics? I’m not talking about being a competitive fighter either. More training to defend yourself, which for some like is me escaping the situation or being able to escalate the level of violence to survive the situation.
[/quote]
Heh.
I would love to have the physique Pacquiao or Marquez had during their third and fourth fights. I will absolutely not be able to drop weight as much as they have. Iirc, they were at 150 during those fights? I currently stand at 158 with four-pack. If I can get to 155-160 with a six-pack, I would be a very happy man.
But it needs to be stated that bodybuilding is a sport, just like how combat sports are… a sport. Getting the jacked, muscular body-shape requires sacrifices that a professional boxer cannot achieve. Professional boxers frequently fight at weights far, far below their actual natural weight. Good luck getting a jacked body when you’re fighting at weights 10-30lb lower than you’re supposed to.
I’ll return to Marquez. I am the exact same height as he is, and I feel most natural when I’m sitting at 155-165. The man fought at weights ranging from 120-140 for most of his professional career. I simply cannot imagine looking muscular at that weight. Hell, I cannot imagine myself fighting a 12 round fight at that weight.
But that’s boxing. Professional boxing requires tremendous sacrifice, and that is largely incompatible with body-building or having an aesthetically pleasing body.
Grappling, on the other hand, is a different story. Making weight is far less punishing for grappling (many contests and tournaments that I know of don’t even have weight requirements), and as such you have people who look far more like they’re supposed to for an athlete of their caliber and size.
Not to mention, having a 300lb bench or a 400lb squat won’t make you punch faster in the slightest. Having a 300lb bench does give you the power to push off that 170lb guy lying on top of you when compared to a 200lb bench.
So, if you want to having an aesthetically pleasing body while doing some combat sport, look into either MMA or pure grappling, not boxing.[/quote]
Agreed, but:
Grappling still has weight classes. Wrestlers cut a good amount of weight, as do Judokas. In BJJ/sub-grappling though, it’s not as prevalent, and there is usually an open weight division that is popular among >75kg competitors.
You’re spot on with the strength-advantage argument in grappling though. Big backs and legs help tremendously.
[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
Also, run with your hands up in your guard. It’ll build up the stamina you need without you having to get punched in the face. [/quote]
Starting to realize how ignorant i sounded talking about weight lifting and progressing in the gym while boxing lol.
My shoulders are worn the fuck out. 3 minute rounds of 100 jabs on the heavy bag all week at the gym and my shoulders feel horrible. No way in hell i’d be able to bench or even do a shoulder press after that . What i have been doing is some pullups and light rear delt flys after my boxing workout.
Kinda frustrated . My sucks really badly compared to everyone else in my gym . Feels so slow and soft . I have very long arms.