T Nation

Boxing and 531

Anyone here box? Im wondering what template would be best for boxing. Thanks guys

I have boxed and currently practice BJJ. 5/3/1 is great for either in my opinion. And the template you are going to use is all dependent on what your goal is (strength or conditioning). I had good results with the rest pause workouts and am currently doing BBB. I think you just need to find a workout that fits what you want to accomplish and make sure it doesn’t take away from your training as a boxer.

Im surprised you’d take chances trusting a stranger on the internet with such a broad training advice question.
If I were you I would research what would big name successful fighters current or past did: Mike Tyson, Johny Hendricks, Roy Jones Jr, Bruce Lee, Floyd Mayweather Jr. etc.
When I was pretty green with strength training with Boxing and strength training in general, I’d first seek out who had good results, who were successful, who were stars.
What may also be important is avoiding paralysis of analysis, just start moving, assess your weaknesses/ strengths and do a lot of trial and error. Even with phenomenal training advice you’re going to trial & error/ tweak certain things, not everyone responds the same way to a type of training.
First Come with some researched ideas and some personal experience trying out training variables

I have no clue where to find it now but I remember reading an interesting article concerning the strength and conditioning of Nonito Donaire. The article was mainly about the PED suspicions that arose because he was working with Victor Conte (BALCO) but it also addressed how his training went against the traditional boxing training. Instead of long steady state roadwork and endless sparring sessions he was doing a lot of sprinting, explosive movements and lifting. He was also knocking a lot of people out during this time.

Anytime you train for sports ask yourself this question: why are steroids banned and why do people who use them seem to have such an advantage? When you answer that question, everything falls into place.

[quote]VlocoG wrote:
Im surprised you’d take chances trusting a stranger on the internet with such a broad training advice question.
If I were you I would research what would big name successful fighters current or past did: Mike Tyson, Johny Hendricks, Roy Jones Jr, Bruce Lee, Floyd Mayweather Jr. etc.
When I was pretty green with strength training with Boxing and strength training in general, I’d first seek out who had good results, who were successful, who were stars.
What may also be important is avoiding paralysis of analysis, just start moving, assess your weaknesses/ strengths and do a lot of trial and error. Even with phenomenal training advice you’re going to trial & error/ tweak certain things, not everyone responds the same way to a type of training.
First Come with some researched ideas and some personal experience trying out training variables[/quote]

Bruce Lee- successful actor, physical culturalist, and thinker. Not a successful fighter by most accepted measures.

[quote]VlocoG wrote:
If I were you I would research what would big name successful fighters current or past did: Mike Tyson, Johny Hendricks, Roy Jones Jr, Bruce Lee, Floyd Mayweather Jr. etc.[/quote]

you’d be a hell of a lot better off figuring out a bit about general training methods and then working off that knowledge. these elite athletes are differently genetically to most people and already have a great physical foundation. they are at their sport full time and are training for infrequent 12 round fights etc etc etc.
if you’re in the same boat go ahead copy them, might work. otherwise take a step back and think about it a bit more.

a good example of a well thought out periodised plan can be found by googling:
How They Train: Conditioning Methods of World Champion Boxer Evander Holyfield
(by Fred Hatfield)

i wouldn’t suggest to copy this but to inform yourself using the ideas.
as Jim hints, strength is a heck of an attribute for most sports. when applying this to boxing strength needs building then maintaining and developing through specific power training.
the system the cubans and russians (superb boxing nations for those that don’t know) is along the lines of:
*General Physical Preparation phase (bear in mind this isn’t quite the same as GPP for powerlifting, in the case of boxing this is where heavier weight training -ie non-boxing specific, hence the “General”- would fit in best)
*Varied/Specific Physical Preparation phase
*Specific Physical Preparation phase
*Competition phase

this is a yearly (or multi-year plan) and focused on the main competition of the year (or of the olympic cycle), with different phase-specific goals/targets. this is for amateur boxing but the same principals are very often applied to professional training camps (rarely more than 12 weeks, though they may include an additional, solely physcial, preparation phase preceding the training camp)

i spent a year in cuba studying sports coaching methodology (specialising in boxing) and that year/multi-year periodisation is the set up they use

[quote]finteal wrote:
I have no clue where to find it now but I remember reading an interesting article concerning the strength and conditioning of Nonito Donaire. The article was mainly about the PED suspicions that arose because he was working with Victor Conte (BALCO) but it also addressed how his training went against the traditional boxing training. Instead of long steady state roadwork and endless sparring sessions he was doing a lot of sprinting, explosive movements and lifting. He was also knocking a lot of people out during this time.
[/quote]

Donaire is powerful and this has gotten him a very long way in the sport, however he is quite lacking in technical-tactical abilities.
Two points: 1) strength and other physical attributes can take you very far 2) technical-tactical abilities can take you very far.
make sure your training allows for both of these to be developed adequately

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Anytime you train for sports ask yourself this question: why are steroids banned and why do people who use them seem to have such an advantage? When you answer that question, everything falls into place. [/quote]

there’s a lot of truth in this! i think that it’s particularly useful for helping boxers to recover well from their strength training whilst still doing well in their more technical training. it’s a hard sport to train for properly because you need to work a lot on technique/tactics, strength and conditioning, plus mental state.
i don’t think boxers generally need massive strength but they do need a ‘good’ level and to be able to actually incorporate training for this into their overall training schedule without becoming overly fatigued (a problem especially considering that most boxers are obliged to make a certain weight, and another reason for periodisation)

Used to workout in a small gym with a guy who boxed and did local MMA shows. He did the original 5/3/1 focusing on the 4 main lifts and used mostly bodyweight work for his accessories. Have no idea how successful he was or if he’s still fighting, but it seems like a pretty solid plan on paper. Id also look into Ross Enamit’s stuff. Dude knows his shit and is a beast.

Donaire is powerful and this has gotten him a very long way in the sport, however he is quite lacking in technical-tactical abilities.
Two points: 1) strength and other physical attributes can take you very far 2) technical-tactical abilities can take you very far.
make sure your training allows for both of these to be developed adequately

Yeah I was thinking the same thing too about Donaire’s style/capabilities. I just thought it was interesting how he was breaking the mold of traditional boxing training and utilizing stuff like plyometrics, sprints and weight training.

I’ve read an article by Jim a couple years ago and he got the question about 5/3/1 for MMA and I believe (don’t exact quote me on this) but he suggested just doing the warm up and 5/3/1 work sets and let the MMA training be your assistance work.

Also in Beyond 5/3/1 the Single, Size and Speed program seems like it could develop some serious power.

As far as 5/3/1 for sports in general there is a “5/3/1 for football” E-book available from EliteFTS. Personally I’m not too interested in it but I bought a copy to keep on the back burner so when my son gets older if he chooses to play football I’ll have some knowledge on proper S&C for that sport. I’ve read it but haven’t really studied and memorized it the way I have the other 5/3/1 books (original, for powerlifting and beyond). It is very long with tons of information and breaks things down position by postion.

I?m a little hardline on Donaire because he irritates me! Not half as talented as he?d like to think he is. But yes he?s a very good athlete and his openness to different strength and conditioning methodologies is something I respect, he tries to work with people who know what they?re talking about and although Conte is a crook he certainly appears to be genuinely clued up on modern techniques.

I don?t think the idea of 5/3/1 then MMA as ?assistance? would work too well for boxing. There is pulling in towards the body and static holding in grappling but in boxing there isn?t really anything comparable and I don?t see it functioning adequately that way.
A lot of professionals seem to run and weight train in the morning, then box later in the day after food and a bit of rest.
The guys I used to train with in Cuba that had day jobs, we all trained 5-6 days a week boxing with Tuesdays and Thursdays as harder sessions with weights circuits and the other days with less training volume/intensity in general. That worked pretty nicely but wouldn?t be enough strength for professional boxing.

I think that realistically a straight up 4 days per week 5/3/1 with boxing 5 days a week is not going to be a good bet if you have work/college or whatever to do as well, unless the assistance is really kept to a minimum and you don?t expect to increase weights quite as consistently. Otherwise reducing to a 2 day per week version would be more sensible.
If you only box 3 days a week that could be a different story, but then why are you only boxing 3 times a week I would wanna know?

The Single, Size and Speed program looks great, just the size bit that could be an issue for specifically weight class sports. Maybe the volume could be dropped slightly on the 5x10 exercises, although this does happen in the prep-phase anyway. It?s just if you?re really needing to keep the bodyweight down in that final phase things could get difficult.
I?m not ever likely to have anything to do with American Football but I?m definitely going to read the book when I get chance, be very interesting!

[quote]Frosty-G wrote:

I don?t think the idea of 5/3/1 then MMA as ?assistance? would work too well for boxing. There is pulling in towards the body and static holding in grappling but in boxing there isn?t really anything comparable and I don?t see it functioning adequately that way.

[/quote]

I don’t really see what specificity has to do with anything. Box to get better at boxing. Lift to get stronger. Train all sides of a joint to prevent injury. Yes even “pull” because boxers need to get stronger ‘pulling muscles’ to prevent shoulder injury.