Brauny96:
I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say with that post…
Louie Simmons also suggests using narrow stance box squats at 2" below parallel as a ME movement. Is that still mainly a “glutes, hips, hamstrings, and posterior chain” exercise or do you think it just might put a little more emphasis on the quads than a wide stance box squat.
As to why I use the Conjugate method for Raw lifting, it works great. I don’t know what else you want me to say about that.
I didn’t want this thread to turn into a regurgitation of things Louie Simmons said, but that’s also why I’m mainly asking questions instead of giving answers. My current training plan is based off the Westside template and I don’t have enough experience yet to tell you much other than “I do it because Louie said to”. I was trying to find out what works for you guys and hopefully implement some of the ideas in my own training.
I understand that a traditional box squat is a posterior chain exercise, but when I do them with a narrow stance, I feel it in my quads. This leads me to believe that if you want a squat variation that puts more emphasis on your quads than a traditional box squat, a narrow stance box squat might be a good fit.
It’s also my understanding that a raw squatter needs more quad strength, so this type of variation could be beneficial. If you think that this is a completely unfounded train of thought, you could at least be a little more constructive with your comments.
[quote]Steve the PLer wrote:
Brauny96:
I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say with that post…
Louie Simmons also suggests using narrow stance box squats at 2" below parallel as a ME movement. Is that still mainly a “glutes, hips, hamstrings, and posterior chain” exercise or do you think it just might put a little more emphasis on the quads than a wide stance box squat.
As to why I use the Conjugate method for Raw lifting, it works great. I don’t know what else you want me to say about that.[/quote]
I just wondered on the Conjuate method because i have tried it and failed miserably raw.
I am not meaining to argue with you, I am just saying that going narrower will hinder the weight and how far you can sit back without turining it into a squat off a box and not a box squat.
I love box squatting, I use a very wide stance because i squat very wide. Going to narrow makes it so I cant sit back as far, and I use too much quads, and Im a firm believer that when you box squat you need to sit back past 90 degrees so you take out almost all quads. Thats how I was taught and I stick by it. If I dont go back far enough it doesnt count in my book.
As long as your sitting back far enough, and taking out most quads from the start and mostly though the lift. then by all means go fuckin foot to foot.
EDIT: as to what Simmons said, It would be using too much quads if you dont sit back far enough. If you do then your fine.
Doing a 1RM every week using the conjugate method didn’t work out very well for me either (If that’s how you did it), but since I’ve been sticking with the same exercise for three weeks using a 5RM on week 1, a 3RM on week 2, and a 1RM on week 3, I’ve been making much better progress.
Since you are training raw now, sitting as far back on box squats might not be the best option, but the whole point of this thread was to figure that out, so I’ still don’t know. If it’s still working for you, by all means keep it up. I did it that way for a while but didn’t compensate for the lack of quad work with other exercises, so when I went back to regular squats my quad strength wasn’t where I needed it to be.
Most of my box squatting is done with a wide stance and I sit as far back as I can. When I do a narrow box squat, however, I am trying to place more emphasis on my quads and therefore don’t sit back as far. A few people seem to think that this isn’t even a good exercise to train the quads, but haven’t given me an alternative, so I’m no better off than when I started.
“go fuckin foot to foot” was funny, but I don’t think I’ll quite take it to that extreme.
"the box is a great tool for teaching when you are at proper depth. i would venture to say that most gym goers squat high. when using a box, you know you hit parallel when you reach the box. after awhile you can instinctively know when you are at parallel by how your body feels when you get there. for me, my belt digs into my hips when i hit parallel.
also, the box teaches you to sit back into your squat. if you set it up so that it’s slightly behind you, you have to sit back to reach it. now as a raw squatter, i don’t sit back very far but sitting back some brings the hips into play and builds tension in them on the way down.
another great thing about a box is teaching tightness in the hole. when i teach someone to squat to a box, i teach them to not anticipate where the box is. i tell them to continually force the knees out on the way down until they actually reach the box. then once they reach it, they stay really tight and with all that built up tension, they should fly off the box. unfortunately most people don’t do these things when they box squat. they plop down and then rock to get off of it. then they wonder why their free squat sucks. a box squat should be done exactly the way you do a free squat."
Meat posted this in March in his training log when someone asked him about box squats. He is one of the strongest raw powerlifters on the site to my knowledge, maybe this will help you out a little Steve!
…/thread.
[quote]Steve the PLer wrote:
For improving a raw squat, is it more beneficial to sit as far back as possible on the box or perform the rep as if you were doing a normal raw squat? Why?
What has worked better for you?[/quote]
Either one can work, I squat raw with a wide stance. I have found sitting down and then pushing up can help power out of the whole. I would imagine if hips are weak this is a good idea. If you are normally a close stance squatter with weak hips it may benefit sitting back, but if you squat as you normally do but just onto the box you will develop strength out of the hole too, remember activities that simulate the actual movement have the greatest transfer to sporting activities so this would make sense for powerlifting. I will say as I have repeated on other forums do not solely do box squats or you will lose quad strength.
[quote]Steve the PLer wrote:
Doing a 1RM every week using the conjugate method didn’t work out very well for me either (If that’s how you did it), but since I’ve been sticking with the same exercise for three weeks using a 5RM on week 1, a 3RM on week 2, and a 1RM on week 3, I’ve been making much better progress.
Since you are training raw now, sitting as far back on box squats might not be the best option, but the whole point of this thread was to figure that out, so I’ still don’t know. If it’s still working for you, by all means keep it up. I did it that way for a while but didn’t compensate for the lack of quad work with other exercises, so when I went back to regular squats my quad strength wasn’t where I needed it to be.
Most of my box squatting is done with a wide stance and I sit as far back as I can. When I do a narrow box squat, however, I am trying to place more emphasis on my quads and therefore don’t sit back as far. A few people seem to think that this isn’t even a good exercise to train the quads, but haven’t given me an alternative, so I’m no better off than when I started.
“go fuckin foot to foot” was funny, but I don’t think I’ll quite take it to that extreme.[/quote]
im not doing box squats for my main movement for a while, I love doing them, I am a big fan of them, but 531 doesnt call for them, so im taking them out, only for assistance work. Im thinking of adding Zercher Box squats, ill try them out and tell you how they are
For a time, I did box squatting for all of my squatting. Slightly below parallel. When I switched to free squats, I could not squat as much as I could from a box. Very strange. My DL did go up during that time.
Just for referense. Long torso, short legs. Also not a very good squatter or DLer in general.
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
I can’t believe I got sucked into this. Forget it. Just box squat. I don’t fucking care how anyone else lifts. Instead of wasting anymore time on this on the internet, I am going to go get stronger in real life. [/quote]
I agree with you when I free squat I have no power out of the “hole” and I box squat and it did help me become more athletic in general like jump higher,run,etc but my free squat suffered but I don’t really care cause I make up for it on deadlifts. I completly agree with you. And about the 19 year old. You have to realize that beginners have weak posteriar chain and it will benefit them to do box squats even if it does neglet quads it would help them for a little while just to get those mususles working.
[quote]Steve the PLer wrote:
Most of my box squatting is done with a wide stance and I sit as far back as I can. When I do a narrow box squat, however, I am trying to place more emphasis on my quads and therefore don’t sit back as far. A few people seem to think that this isn’t even a good exercise to train the quads, but haven’t given me an alternative, so I’m no better off than when I started.
DUDE, Steve why don’t you just do leg extensions if you really wanna get those quads strong??
^^^this was a joke…buuut
there’s always front squats
On a side note, if you hate Front Squats you will want to erase Front Box Squats from existence.
If your box squat is > that your free squat then something is wrong. It’s probably one or more than one of these:
I don’t think we have anyone in our gym that box squats more than the free squat. That includes raw lifters, single-ply lifters, and multi-ply lifters. We all train using box squats, and we all get stronger.
The point of the box squat is to emphasize the glutes and hamstrings more. I’ve never seen a powerlifter with too strong of hamstrings and too weak of quads. Most people start out as very quad dominant, and that will only take you so far.