T Nation

Box Squats vs Speed Squats

Which would have a bigger carry over to the football field?

There is no single best option. There’s a place for both…

[quote]Balle wrote:
There is no single best option. There’s a place for both…[/quote]

Ding ding ding. We have a winner. get good at both, then get great at both.

I use a box when doing speed squats.

how do you use a box doing speed squats? wouldnt you slam into the box on your eccentric portion of it? seeing as its speed squats i would think youd be moving as fast as controllable.

[quote]BlazinSpeed wrote:
how do you use a box doing speed squats? wouldnt you slam into the box on your eccentric portion of it? seeing as its speed squats i would think youd be moving as fast as controllable.[/quote]

You go down slow and controlled, the speed is suppose to be on the way up. As soon as you sit on the box, you explode off the box.

[quote]BlazinSpeed wrote:
how do you use a box doing speed squats? wouldnt you slam into the box on your eccentric portion of it? seeing as its speed squats i would think youd be moving as fast as controllable.[/quote]

Just like the westside DE box squats. Sit onto the boc then an explosive concentric. If you want to emphasize the eccentric, use bands.

yea the title actually should have said banded box squats vs banded speed squats. Im debating which to do on DE lower day

Blazin-
What are your reasons for including either exercise? What is your reason for incorporating a DE lower day? I dont think any of us would be able to give you any sort of direction without some more information about your age, height, weight, max squat, vertical, etc.

Jump squats

…flame away.

Banded box squats have a reputation for killing your body after anymore than 3 weeks…

If it’s a question of speed squats verus squatting heavy then squatting heavy wins every time.

If you can squat 200kg and use 100kg for speed work, and then bump your squat up to 220kg, is the 100kg gonna move faster?? You damn well better believe it will.

The reason Im including bands is becase im trying to get more explosive in my legs. I incorporate a DE lower day becasuse i didnt think you were supposed to have two ME days in 1 week.

Im 22yrs old/6’0 tall/200lbs/max squat:380/vertical:32"/max bench:280/ max PC:235
40 yd dash: 4.48

So what do you guys think? I already used the bands for DE lower day doing speed squats. I liked the bands so much i used them today for DE Upper day on my bench.

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Jump squats

…flame away.[/quote]

I’m going to agree with Xen on this one when it comes to speed work. Granted, I’m no expert, and have only been at this whole lifting thing for a few years (outside of high school sports), but it seems to me that if you aren’t powerlifting, then doing powerlifting style DE squats wouldn’t be necessary. Why train the neural pathways for a lift when you are looking to increase your athleticism on the football field?

If you just want to increase general speed and jumping ability then doing jump squats and the like would be best. Or at least this is my theory. Help me out smart trainer people.

hmmmm i understand what your saying. so basically i need to rework my whole workout. i dont know if anyone can help me with this. ill post my workout and maybe someone can make the neccessary corrections.

Mon(ME Lower)
Squat 6x1-4
GHR 3x5
Planks 45 sec hold
Cable Pull Thrus 3x6
Bulgarian Squat 3x5

Tue(ME Upper)
Bench 4x5
Weighted Pull Ups 3x5
Incline 3x5
BarCurl/Tricep Combo
Bent BB Row 3x6

Thu(DE Lower)
PC 7x2
1 leg board hops
Planks
Banded Speed Squats 8x2
Decline Sit Ups

Fri(DE Upper)
Banded Bench 7x3
Pull Ups 3x8
Incline 4x3
Bar Chins 3x8

I dunno how i’d rework this

[quote]BlazinSpeed wrote:
yea the title actually should have said banded box squats vs banded speed squats. Im debating which to do on DE lower day[/quote]

You want to use a box for your speed squats the majority of the time. I suppose you could switch it to free squats but i think the speed squats off a box would be a better option.

I think you need to look at the “big picture” here and not just get sucked into a specific program or training split. If you are training for improvements on the football field that goal should show in your training. This means that all lifts are general means and substituting one for another is unlikely to have any drastic effects on your on-field performance.

Judging by your size I assume you play a skill position (DB, WR, RB maybe?) Now, knowing that speed and agility are of the highest importance to you, we need to see how we can improve upon them (although you have damn good numbers already).

You need to evaluate yourself and determine if you are good at converting strength to power, which seems to be the case based on your numbers, or if you can gain strength without seeing much of an improvement in strength-speed and speed-strength tests such as vertical or the 40.

If you easily convert increases in strength to increases in power then you’d keep on trying to boost up your strength- basically through whatever means work for you. But if you are not very effecient at converting strength into power then you need to concentrate your training more towards speed-strength exercises (while maintaining your strength via low volume mid-high intensity lifts).

When results start to diminish you go back to strength work and push your numbers up there while maintaining your speed and explosiveness through a low volume of sprints and/or jumps etc.

Enough of my rambling :wink: I suggest you read everything you can by Kelly Bagget and search for Jumanji on this site and read all of his posts. Both have incredible knowledge will explain these concepts and more much better than I am able.

1st off Thanx a whole lot for all that information. I really appreciate things like that.

2ndly How would i know if i can convert strength to power easily. If you ask me off the top of my head i’d say that explosivness is what i lack. but when i say this to people they say NO its strength because your jumping and running numbers are good compared to your lifting numbers.

Is that the logic I should be using to determine where my weakness lies?

Oh and by the way yea I play Wide Reciever

Blazin-
No problem. Just trying to help out and understand this stuff a little better myself as well.

To see how well you convert strength to power I would take a look at your training log (if you dont have a log… start one right away!) and see how increases in strength correlated with your vert, 40 time, pc, etc.

If you bumped your squat up 100lbs and your vert went up 5-6in then id say you are pretty good at converting your strength to power. However if you got a lot stronger but saw 1-2in or less then you probably need more explosive work in order to express that increased strength in the 40, vert, on the field, etc.

In terms of where you stand right now and what your training should look like, its a tough call based on the numbers- especially without having seen you move in sport or in training. There are many ways you can get an idea for what you lack.

When you lift a 1RM do you “grind it out” or are you a hit and miss type lifter? When you sprint and jump is there a lot of knee bend and “muscling” of the movement with long ground contact times? Things like this can give you an idea of what you need to work on.

The more you muscle explosive movements that should be fluid and effort less and the more you grind with weights the more likely it is that you are a strength dominant athlete and you need to shift your training towards speed-strength means while maintaining your strength levels for a while.

If the opposite is true then I think you should boost up your strength for a while to act as a base for big gains in power work to come later.

Hope this helps,
Ian

Really thanx again

I understand everything your saying. It really is tough to say. what do you mean by start a log? just write down all my lifts at the end of each training day?

When you lift a 1RM do you “grind it out” or are you a hit and miss type lifter?

I really dont know. i would say when i do a heavy squat i get down and up alot faster than other people, but i feel like it takes 3-4 secs to complete 1rep

When you sprint and jump is there a lot of knee bend and “muscling” of the movement with long ground contact times?

another tough call. i can give you this and maybe you could tell me what it looks like:
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i...nt=7283a001.flv
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i...nt=082f0383.flv

Its a couple of sprints. I dont have any jumping.

All n all i would think im speed dominant.

Yea write down what you did during your workout. The more information you put down the better- did the weight feel especially heavy on that day or a certain set, feeling fresh and snappy during sprints?, how much sleep youve been getting, etc.

In the long term all of this will help you get a better idea of how you react to training and help you plan more effectively for the future.

Neither of those links would work for me. Sounds like you are probably somewhere in the middle not extremely speed or strength dominant but maybe favoring the speed side of things. Assuming you are starting your off-season soon I would keep getting stronger and build a bigger base for power work later in the off season which would “bring it all together” in time for the season.

However, if during this time you feel you are starting to really become strength dominant you can switch emphasis for a while. Basically find your current weakness and work it for a while until that is brought up to par then reevaluate and take it from there.