T Nation

Bowling for Coulmbine: T-Folk feedback?

I got along to see the above doco movie produced by Michael Moore the other week and found it an interesting insight into the American gun culture/mindset.
It was rather well produced from am informative perspective, using other countries for comparative purposes trying to explain the U.S’s high mortality rate with firearms.
How many T-folk watched this flick and would agree that the movie strongly indicating media-feed ‘fear’ largely attributes to the high gun related death rate.
P.S You would have needed to view the flick to appreciate the background/history & recognise the film’s approach to this question.

I saw the movie and was very impressed. Michael Moore’s documentaries are definitely way left and his style is very confrontational but the argument was very sound. It got me thinking about the fear-mongering that’s rampant in the media.

There were some far-out allegations though like the connection between the NRA and KKK. There were no facts to back this up…simply coincidence.

Definitely a thumbs up on the whole. Although I have one question: Where was Ted Nugent in this flick? :slight_smile:

-Alex

Amazing movie. Definitely a must-see for every American.

I’m a big fan of the movie, but I find Moore’s logic to be faulty. I agree with him that Americans sustain our own culture of fear, resulting in retaliatory violence as a default problem-solving method.

But his film drops the ball on a coupla things, too. First, if Moore is going to blame the media for creating such a culture of fear in the first place, then he has to blame ALL the media and not dodge his own theory when it’s time to examine violent music, games, TV, and other entertainment. He can’t say, “News makes us afraid, but entertainment media is innocent.”

Moore also fails to investigate the relationship between gun violence and drug use, or even more importantly–domestic violence. Since a HUGE number of gun killings are committed by and within families, he should have inquired about America’s domestic assault variables, too.

my sister made me see it considering shes gone off to college and become a hippy. but i didnt like it. i dont give 2 shits what the media says, if someone breaks into your home, you’re going to want some way to protect yourself, and the closest hard object (hockey stick, pool cue, etc.) isnt going to save you for sure. i know if someone breaks into my home i want a surefire way to make sure that theyre discouraged from doing it ever again (Thats if they survive to see an “ever again”).

the movie did provide some good points but the whole comparing death by guns with other countries such as canada. you have to look at the ratios, 30 million people in canada, 600 million in the USA. compare ratios, michael, not sheer numbers.

to chrismcl
600 million in the US where did you get that??? btw MM owns guns himself and is a lifelong NRA member. So what is your point exactly?

i meant 200 million. it was late at night, i was fatigued. so sue me.

I enjoyed Bowling for Columbine immensely and consider it to be a must see movie for anyone who still espouses all that ridiculous NRA rhetoric. Once again Moore shows his proficiency in letting people incriminate themselves, in an assortment of hilarious yet disturbing interviews with everyday right wing folk to the crowned king of the right, Charlton Heston.

That being said, the film is not without its flaws. Some of the “have a hug” scenes between him and his subjects are far too obvious, bordering on manipulative.

Its no Roger & Me, but its just as important. (Interesting that among the most intelligent people interviewed in the film was none other than Marilyn Manson!)

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

I find it quite asinine that the standard used in ALL other matters of Constitutional law is flip-flopped on the matter of firearms possesion. That is, whenever the government wants to deprive a citizen of their right to free speech, religion, assembly, or petition, the burden of proof is on Uncle Sam as to why said citizen should not be able to do these things. If a citizen wants to possess and publicly carry a firearm, concealed or otherwise, the burden of proof as to why he should be able to exercise these freedoms is on the citizen himself (so much so that in many jurisdictions it is impossible). This makes absolutely no sense from a Constitutional standpoint.

The tide is turning, however, as more and more states are reverting to the “shall issue” approach, and contrary to what the anti-gunners preached would happen, we are not seeing an epidemic of vigilante-style gun violence as people have shoot-outs over parking spaces and fender benders. It simply hasn’t happened.

Are there a lot of folks who should not have guns? Yup. They’re called criminals. Are there enough responsible citizens carrying them concealed in public? Nope. At least, not according to most rank and file cops (and I can provide a reference for that if anyone would like).

I haven’t seen Micheal Moore’s movie. I’m certain that I will. But I do see a lot of anti-gunners walking away from the film shouting “hurrah!”, which tells me that either (a) I will hate it, or (b) they didn’t understand the message.

Demo,

Nowhere in the Constitution does it designate the right of individuals to own firearms. Your thinking of the right of a militia to own firearms, which is clearly not the same as an individual owning a gun. So from a Constitutional law standpoint there is no basis for individual gun ownership.

“An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.”

I see your point. However, I wouldn’t consider myself a ‘subject’, and I own no guns. A man can arm himself with many things…some many times more powerful than a mere firearm. I believe that may have been part of Moore’s point…just my extrapolation.

“I haven’t seen Micheal Moore’s movie. I’m certain that I will. But I do see a lot of anti-gunners walking away from the film shouting “hurrah!”, which tells me that either (a) I will hate it, or (b) they didn’t understand the message.”

When I saw it, it was mostly ‘b’. It amazed me how many granolas were cheering at all the wrong moments. They had no bloody clue. Token socialists from ‘academia’.

OTOH, It amazes me how many gun-owners have panned the movie without even seeing it. BFC is by no means an ‘anti-gunner’ flick. It does not attack the 2nd Amendment. I won’t summarize the movie here. Go see it yourself.

I’m still wondering why The 'Nuge wasn’t in BFC…hmmm. Hell, he probably would’ve ‘killed and grilled’ Moore if he stepped on his property. hehe :slight_smile:

-Alex


“Give me fifteen minutes to talk away my face, and I will bed the Queen of France” – Voltaire

“A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”

The right of the PEOPLE, not the militia, to keep and bear arms. It’s a real bitch when facts get in the way of you giving your opinion by twisting them.

Now, if you want to talk about true technicalities, there is no constitutional basis for separation of church and state. That has been extrapolated from what IS written by various courts over the years.

“A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”

As DocT pointed out, the people ARE the militia. The 2nd amendment is a ‘self-destruct’ mechanism of sorts built into the constitution. It was meant to give the people the tools to overthrow the gov’t if things got out of hand.

Unfortunately, this was written when wars were fought with infantry, cavalry, and cannons (with the exception of germ warfare on the Native Americans). Now, we can rain down death by the ton at the push of a button.

We are left in the same predicament as any other ‘unarmed’ population. Whoever has control of the army, controls the gov’t. It would take a helluva lot of ‘citizens’ with pea-shooters to defeat our army and overthrow our governing body on their own.

In conclusion, I believe the 2nd amendment is dated, unless we as citizens can own Stealth Bombers and Stinger Missiles. Wait, there’s that whole cost issue now. Crap.

-Alex
“Give me fifteen minutes to talk away my face, and I will bed the Queen of France” – Voltaire