T Nation

Bottom Portion of Sumo Deadlift


#1

Im pretty weak off the floor on the deadlift, I only train sumo and I can't really think of many ways to train the bottom portion of the lift. Snatch grip obviously won't work and I don't know if I have the flexibility to get down low enough on a deficit pull either, that probably wouldn't be too safe either. I would use reverse bands, but my gym doesn't have anything to set those up on. Any other ways to work the bottom portion?


#2

your gym doesnt have a power rack?


#3

No we have one of those things, which is kind of like a rack, but isn't square. Like half way between a pair of squat stands and a cage. Just realised you can't make a deadlift harder off the floor with bands anyway so that doesn't really matter.


#4

I've always been really strong off the floor. Consequently, I also have very strong squat relative to my dead. What's your squat looking like? Have you ever given conventional a try?


#5

Im really weak on conventional and my forms always pretty messy. I have very strange body proportions due to a genetic disorder where I have very long arms and legs and a short torso, Im also 6'3" so I think sumo works better for me. My deadlift is much stronger then my squat. I have an 180kg single on the deadlift and a 120kg single on the squat.


#6

I'd recommend at least giving defecits a try. The legs are what initiate the break from the floor. Build up your squat. Leg press will also help. Focus on getting stronger in general. Your numbers are still beginner level roughly.


#7

Ill probably give them a try next week, my friends had success doing them with conventional so I suppose they could work. I did a bit of speed work today with 140kg doing doubles and focusing on ripping the bar off the floor, hoping that will help a bit. I busted a rib from squatting with a poorly positioned belt a couple weeks ago so I won't be able to squat for a while, but I can deadlift completely pain free.


#8

do deep sqauts take bout half or less of what u squat get low ass to ground hold for 3 secs and explode up. that helps alot! also good mornings.. also really work your core do incline sit ups with a weight behind your head


#9

really? you must have had the belt way high? you can do leg press and good mornings in the mean time if you can't squat at all.


#10

Yeah, inzer sent me a 13mm instead of a 10mm, but I figured I'd just keep it, but I think if I was using the 10mm I wouldn't have hurt my rib. Had the belt pretty high up because I didn't know how to use it really and I fell forward on a squat and it dug into my rib. I can't good morning without pretty bad pain and my gym has no leg press. I can do front squats though, been doing what blueprint said and squatting down to pins, sitting for a couple seconds and then exploding up.


#11

for future reference, keep the belt around your waist.


#12

Try box squats with a wide stance to build your hips. If you're lacking the flexibility to pull a deficit sumo pull, work on your flexibility until you can do them. Then do them.


#13

I have the flexibility, I was just told it was dangerous to get so low on a sumo stance and you can pull your groin pretty easily and I didn't want to risk that. I squat pretty wide already, not as wide as my sumo pull wear my feet are at the plates, but pretty wide.


#14

I also squat wide. You can try the defecits with a conventional stance.


#15

Heavy high rep leg pres + conventional deficit pulls + good mornings (wide and narrow) = strong off the floor


#16

Lacking flexibility isn't an excuse to avoid, only to delay. that's like saying your grip is too weak to deadlift. Fix it and get to it. the more flexible you are (to a point) the more advantageous your starting position can be. That being said, try to get your heels under the bar, spread your knees and fall back slightly till it lifts itself.


#17

Def work hard on the hips like other have said. If you can't leg press, keep working front squats and hammering single leg type stuff. Anything will help, but I personally like the "fake" single leg stuff like lunges and RLESS. Get some bands from eliteFTS and squat using those +weight, that will hammer your legs/hips pretty good.

Also, it sounds like you may be able to bring up your obliques more and hit mobility work. Those are pretty common issues for ppl falling forward, aside from weak backs. Hit those well, too, the oblique really stabilize in that bottom position of the deads/squats.


#18

I'd say... train power cleans or high pulls. It's not necessarily sumo, but it'll teach you power. The power should be able to transfer. You could also try sumo-stance high pulls. I've used those on occasion, though I pull conventional, so I dunno..

If you try it out, let me know how it goes.


#19

Pull singles for your DE work, not doubles.


#20

Why is this? Never heard it recommended.

I don't have problems falling forward with the bar. my sumo pull is pretty much vertical with my back close to upright. Gonna take the advice on doing high pulls. Probably not sumo because that just seems awkward, but conventional should work. This is probably wrong, but would chain work help, I know chains are normally used for the lockout, but I'd have to accelerate to maintain bar speed, which might help with explosiveness.