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Bottom help

I am looking for some assistance work for the bottom of my squat and dl. I know that if i can get them up, i can lift alot more. I have pretty strong hips so i don’t think that is the problem… any ideas?


Have you read any of Dave Tate’s articles here in T-Mag?

yea, i have read most of dave’s stuff.
what are you referring to?

soon i will post the vid of todays workout where i noticed my problem.

Once I began working on cleans, I haven’t had any problem at the initial pull of the deads.

Another thing could be weak hams. I do plenty of glute-ham raises. Reverse hypers would help, too.

Something that may help you with your squat is box squats.

There’s a thread in the Dog Pound that was begun by Ko. It’s called “stuck”. I suggest you check it out, Ko had the exact same problem with his deads and there are plenty of great suggestions in that thread.

Try some isolation exercises for the hamstrings and glutes.

yeah, give some O-lifts a go, snacthes, cleans high pulls etc other wise maybe try some heavy isomterics at the bottom of the lifts. Go really heavy and (starting) from a rack lower the bar to about an inch from the ground and hold (till failure if ya keen)


i read that thread and it had some helpful advice… then it got all into the nookie, so i jerked off… now i am back thoguh…

anyway, i have been doing box squats, almost exclusively. in fact, todays vid is of a box squat with semi-decent form.

i realized a minute ago that i may have been hurting myself with cleans. I have been doing them, but hang cleans instead of full power cleans from the floor. I was thinking that if i can dl the weight and i can hang clean the weight, then i can power clean the weight. this makes sense too, but it only hurts my dl. now, from the middle up i am strong, but below my hang clean starting point, i am very weak. Therefore, i am going to start doing some full power cleans instead.

Also, soon, i had plans to start some olympic lifts, but i wanted to finish this “routine” that i made first. I have made very good gains with it, so i wanted to stick with it. Increased my box squat from 240 to 285 in only about 6 weeks.

I am confident that with the advice you guys gave me, i can fix my dl, but i really need help fixing the bottom of my squat… Any more advice.

btw… give me another 20 min and i will have todays vid up for you to see my form.


go there to see todays squat. critique me… i know form is not perfect, so help me out

Read my “Squatting Out of the Hole” article posted on my website www.chadwaterbury.com

Ok, but you asked for it.

Eccentric, what the HELL? Your eccentric is like 0.5 seconds, you are slamming your ass on the box and it looks like you’re going to badly fuck up your spine if you don’t CONTROL THE ECCENTRIC. Lower your weight, and try to give yourself at least 2 seconds to do the eccentric.

Concentric, you look like you’re going to crap a huge turd. Once again, lower the weight, concentrate on form. Your weight will increase naturally.

Ok, a few things:

  1. Your hams and glutes need a lot of strengthening. I’d train the hell out of parallel GM’s, deep split squats, glute hams raises, and maybe even some kneeling squats. Gotta work on popping those hips through.
  2. When you sit on the box, do not plop down there, keep your abs TIGHT and flex them hard into the belt when you come back up.
  3. When you come up, the bar is coming forward because you are not arching up up. Practice arching the bar out of the bottom.
  4. You’re rocking out of the bottom a lot too, which is also causing the bar to move forward to much. The bar should basically go up and down, the shortest distance right? Watch how when you squat, the bar goes way back, then way forward.
  5. Post a pic of your dynamic effort work, as I am sure you need to work on speed off the box. You may also wanna check out the Westside Squatting video.
    BTW-Where in LI do you live?

Harkonnen-Box Squats are supposed to be performed with a fast eccentric. When Im training with bands it takes me about half a second to reach the box. Its is under control but is supposed to be much faster than 2 seconds. this isnt bodybuilding training.
Right off the bat i would say get your stance out wider. Maybe bring the box level up some. I never have a problem getting off of the box. Go lighter on your dynamic days and really explode off that box with the glutes and not the quads. These are really generic recommendations but i would like to see you squat more than just for a one rep max. Id like to see how you perform your speed sets. And on deadlift if you are having trouble getting it off the ground. its probably your lower back. But just from looking at you i would say that you are young and that you need to bring up every thing. I think low back is the answer you are looking for specifically here.

Oh, how could I forget, deep handle squats too.

Goldberg-What about the hip extension? Of, lack of it, I should say. That’s what leads me to believe it’s hams/glutes. Not that every kid doesn’t need a stronger back, just saying.

Yeah, bob, lower the weight. You should be explosive off that box. Also, still believe it’s weak hams/glutes.

I’ve got a vid of a box squat being performed, I’ll find the link and post it. That way you can compare.

Chad: I’m going to read article. Cool.

Goldberg- I didn’t know that, but he still looks to be hitting that box hard, and it doesn’t look like he’s controlling the weight.

Well it looked like his hips rose really fast and that his back stayed in the same position. It may be something as simple as getting a tighter arch, keeping the upper back tight, and push the head into the bar. In all honesty i think he needs to bring up everything. Back, abs, hams, glutes, everything.

Thanks for all your advice.

i agree that my eccentric was alittle fast, but 2 seconds is way too long of an eccentric for powerlifting. I did slam down alittle, but it was not terrible. I accept it as it was a max and i will blame my CNS. I don’t usually slam down that hard.

Thanks, I will def check out that article right after I post this.

I am in Massapequa. Where are you?
I have been working on my hips alot lately and I was actually surprised on how once I started moving my hips, how explosive they were. I will get the stronger thoguh.
I have seen the squatting video and in it, Louie says to relax the hips once on the box. That is what I tried to do and that might be why I seemed to be rocking, but I promise you, there was no momentum. I see what you are saying with the bar thoguh, it def was not going in a straight line.
I don’t have any dynamic vids right now, but I will post next week’s and I will def try some of those exercises. I have never even heard of half of them.

I have been working on getting my stance wider, but I have to increase hip flexibility first. My stance is actually alot wider than it was 6 weeks ago.
I really try not to use my quads at all when I squat. My quads are alot stronger than my hammies so sometimes, they try to dominate, but I have been trying to stop that. You should see what I used to look like when I squatted.
I have been working my hips , abs, and glutes alot the last 6 weeks and I feel that that is why my squat has increased so much so quickly(45 pounds in 7 weeks). I will continue to work them real hard though and I will do alot more back and hams.
I agree that my lower back is prob a major problem because when I dl heavy, I tend to stiff leg it(not on purpose).

Just keep in mind, that is 45 lbs more than I have ever squatted so my CNS might have been playing a small role in my form.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice and let me know if you think of anything else.

Just a reminder too…
I am not doing sets with that, it is just my 1rm, that is why it is not really fast.

bump for box sqaut video

sully, i just did some searches and i still have no idea what deep handle and deep split squats are