T Nation

Bottle Not Lasting Long Enough. Where Am I Losing Testosterone?

I take 20mg per day. My dose is 200mg per ml and I get 5 ml so 1000mg per bottle. Theoretically this should last me 50 days. I use 25g 1 inch needles and 1ml syringe. I fill the syringe to .1 or 20mg. Even after injecting there is a little left in the syringe. I typically push this out on my forearm and rub in. By the end of the month am I struggling to get the last few drops out of my bottle? I should have 40% left? Anyone else have these issues? There isn’t obvious leakage through the stopper. Maybe occasionally a little but doesn’t seem like I should be losing 40%.

The loss on a standard syringe is only slightly less than 0.1ml…when you fill a standard syringe to 0.1 you’ve actually pulled out more like 0.18 or so.

That corresponds extremely closely with your 40% “missing”.

Alternatives are to use “low dead space” syringe systems (which would get you to more like .102 for each .1 used in the needle) or use EOD / E3.5D dosing (thus proportionaly reducing the waste). Some people (@systemlord) are highly sensitive to small variations in their levels for some reason. I don’t know your history or what protocols you’ve tried that led you to ED dosing…but you may not need to be doing that.

Have you had multiple bottles like this?

I just started 6 months ago. I am on my 6th bottle. Now that I think about it I did not experience this with my first bottle when I was taking one shot per week. This makes me believe the issue is what @louiststeinhil mentions. I just find it hard to believe I am taking almost double what I thought I was taking.

What you are saying makes sense but means I am actually taking 36mg per day or 252mg per week? That is quite high and I would expect my testosterone levels to be much higher. My total testosterone last time I was tested was 1001. I am fine with that level and feel great. I would think if I was taking 250mg per week it would be much higher and I would have better performance in the gym.

I believe he is saying you are losing it in the dead space so you are not actually injecting it. Your pulling that much but losing it in the needle or any other dead space that is created in the syringe.

You could possibly prevent it by using the air lock technique. Purposely pulling in an air bubble in the syringe by the stopper, that way the air will push out all remaining oil.

It’s the syringes. Different syringes caused me to be injecting 40mg and 80mg respectively, when I thought I was doing the same amount. (I was going through each 1ml bottle in four draws per syringe)

It was only when I was able to do my own testing with some no-dead-space needles that I could see how much was really being plunged out of each of my types of syringe.

The problem is the oil. Certain syringes do not handle the oil well at all and end up holding an astonishing amount back.

This is exactly what I do. Before removing the drawing needle I pull back and get an air bubble in the syringe. I then put in the pinning needle and push out the air bubble until a tiny bit comes out the needle and then I inject. At this point the syringe is usually a little below the .1 mark. I guess I just figured it was mostly air I was drawing back and the ‘dead space’ was minimal. I didn’t figure it was .08. I have a hard time believing I am using 252mg per week. I think my test levels and performance in the gym would be much better

I do believe you probably are losing some somewhere. I can’t say anything from experience but have heard that there is a lot of dead space created in the syringes with interchangeable needles that is almost impossible to prevent, and that may be your biggest issue.

You’re pushing out most of the air from your drawing needle. You put on a fresh needle - with fresh dead space - and then inject. When you inject, the plunger doesn’t clean out lock mechanism on the syringe or the needle itself (although the needle’s volume is truly trivial). Note the amounts here, kinda like what I said. You’re wasting as much as you’re using at that dose schedule - “99ul” is 0.099 ml - or basically .1ml - the same amount you’re injecting


If not using interchangeable needles how are you drawing your test? I hear some saying they are using insulin needles but I assume you have to backfill and draw with another needle. I have a hard enough time getting a 23g needle through the stopper. Can’t imagine drawing with an insulin needle. Do you draw and pin with the same needle?

As far as the frequency I do this because I was getting minor side effects with one large dose. Nothing serious. My skin just felt really oily. To the point where I didn’t even want to shake anyones hand because my hands were very oily. I was taking 120mg per week in one shot and when getting tested on day 7 I was at 410. I upped my dosage to 140 and switched to daily. Last time I was tested I was 1001. Since I am taking daily I assume my levels are more stable and constantly running around 1000. I guess I could try 40mg every other day. I’m going to wait for my next set of labs in a month and possibly switch it up.

Yes I draw and inject with the same needle. Takes a little time but not horrible. I have been using 3/10ml syringes and they are pretty easy. All they had were 1ml syringes this time and those absolutely suck to draw out. Same gauge and length of needle just different syringe. Not sure if the larger barrel with stopper creates more friction or what.

Most likely. Depends slightly on the ester but with daily dosing not so much as long as it isn’t plain test solution. Enan/Cyp have half lives in the range of 6-8 days so dosing every day you’re really not gonna move much. Even with Prop there won’t be much movement in 24 hours between pins.

I’ve been using 30g insulin syringes and it is a bit slow, especially on the draw, but it works well enough. Just don’t be in a rush. :wink:

What size needle do you use?

29g 1/2"

I use leur lock needles and 1ml low dead space (d above) insulin syringes. I draw with an 18g and inject with a 30g.

I draw with a 23 and pin with a 25g one inch. I have a hard time forcing the 23 into the stopper. Feel like I wouldn’t be able to force a 29 through without busting the needle. Seems simple enough but maybe I am doing something wrong.

Never been an issue for me. I’m thinking the thinner gauge may actually go in easier as it doesn’t have to make quite as large of a hole. I’m just guessing on that though, based on how you don’t feel the thinner gauges as much when injecting, at least from what I have been told. I wouldn’t know for sure as I have never used anything bigger than a 29g.

A smaller needle will go in easier, not with more difficulty.

I use 30g 1/2" insulin syringes. It does take a while to draw with something that small but on the plus side I barely feel it and waste next to nothing

You can buy a pack of them off Amazon pretty inexpensively if you want to try it out. I inject in the delt, the skin is so thin there that even a 1/2" needle still makes it to the muscle