T Nation

Boron - All My Patients Use It and So Should You


#143

When should people be taking boron? I’m taking armour thyroid now and want to make sure boron won’t interfer with it. Any timing issues taking boron and armour thyroid @physioLojik?


#144

@physioLojik

Do you advise boron for guys with lower shbg?

I know your views on the relevance of shbg as it pertains for trt. Or lack thereof.


#145

I think everyone should be on boron. It’s effects on shbg are rather backseat to it’s effects on magnesium and other minerals. Without boron your body can’t use these minerals and they are essential. I test every single patient for boron and I’ve seen less than 5% of people have adequate levels.


#146

Hi @physioLojik

You got my attention with this, especially the OCD part. I struggled with anxiety at a low level before TRT and then it increased hardcore, along with OCD, on my second attempt at treatment. It’s now leveling out for some reason and I’m not sure why. Can’t find any COMT info in the genetic testing I’ve had done.

I know you’ve said that basing treatment off of SHBG is dumb as it fluctuates so much in any given day, but I seem to feel great at 8mg ED. Maybe I’d feel just fine at a frequency of 28mg twice a week but I’m terrified of touching anything right now. My libido and arousal are teenage level, my energy throughout the day is sustained, I’m sleeping like a baby and I’m really motivated.

The ONLY thing I’m still struggling with is exercise intolerance. I can barely get through a workout. Interestingly enough, even though I’m not working out intensely at all, I look really muscular. My wife comments on it weekly, I’m leaner yet my muscles retain their fullness (even on the cut I’m on right now).

My questions are: am I possibly screwing myself in the future by keeping my T levels so low? I know you said my dose wasn’t ideal. Also, what in your experience could be contributing to my inability to lift without feeling like death? The only thing I’ve been able to find through blood work is ferritin on the lower end of the scale (26 on a ref range of 22-322).


#147

Okay, since there is this whole boron, magnesium, zinc relationship, should I also supplement with magnesium and zinc?
The reason I ask is… I bought some zinc at my local drugstore last year and endured a 10 min lecture on how taking could be harmful. I took a couple of them but then got nervous about the whole thing.
Hope that makes sense?


#148

If you’re going to supplement zinc, get it with some copper in the tablet. And I’d only do about 25mg zinc.


#149

Ugh! Nevermind then. Too complicated :roll_eyes:
Thanks for the reply!


#150

You def need to be using it. 25/30mg zinc and also topical magnesium everyday. Also you need at LEAST 6000 iu vitamin d a day


#151

I’ve been looking at different products to buy to add boron. Now that zinc/copper have been added to the discussion, I found a Life Extension “Only Trace Minerals” that has boron, zinc, copper, and a couple other things. Is this a good choice?


#152

Do you think your exercise intolerance could be stemming from your cut? Maybe you already the exercise intolerance before your cut, but that stood out to me.


#153

I could see why you would think that, but no, it’s been going on for some time now. I’ve had it to some degree over the years then I got on TRT in July 2017 and had never felt so strong, been so muscular or had so much gas in the tank. My urologist then stopped my treatment cold-turkey and I got messed up.

Having no test in my system it was obvious why I was having such a hard time exercising, but now idk. I’ve been back on TRT for 5 months and I’m struggling worse than before TRT ever started. It’s possbly due to only injecting 8mg ED or 56mg a week. Could be the equivalent of hypogonadal but I feel ok besides the exercise problems.

When I raise my T dose I get symptoms of high E2 (profuse night sweats, irritability, bloating, water retention, depression). However, during my first round of TRT my dose was much higher than it is now and I experienced no symptoms of any kind until 7 months into treatment, then severe panic attacks. Physiolojik pointed out that the panic could have been a dopamine issue, not an E2 issue.

It just seems like something changed in my body during that withdrawal from hell.


#154

That looks perfect. I was looking for something like this so I didn’t have to take 4 pills a day. This is all in one nice find!!


#156

It seems like a good choice. I’m just not sure about the extra things in it. Maybe they are ok to be in there. I don’t know much about them though.


#157

There minimal. Short list just look them up or I will before I order it.


#158

Should we be taking vitamin K with that much vitamin D?


#159

What does vitamin K have to do with vitamin D?


#161

Don’t count on that doing anything for you. If you are taking so much that you experience toxicity, then you need to cut back. You can piss out an awful lot of vitamin D without a problem.


#162

Boron also helps the absorption of vitamin d. Magnesium included. Question is “are we prone to a defeciency of this K”. What foods provide it and do we as a culture eat it often.


#163

Since I eat about 2 cups of broccoli 4-5 days a weeks (on top of a few other foods on the list) and you get 92% from 1/2 cup I am definitely getting my requirements just from that.


#164

Yah me to.