T Nation

Boron - All My Patients Use It and So Should You


#62

Lol
Dick. I’m aware. What I’m saying is there is way more to why shit does or doesn’t work than just hormonal numbers. @unreal24278


#63

I know I’m just messing around :slight_smile: @physioLojik


#64

Macro breakdown: 170-180g of protein, 300g carbs, 90g fat

Daily diet overview:

Morning: smoothie consisting of fruit, oats, peanut butter, almond milk and whey protein

Snack: nuts and a couple pieces of fruit

Lunch: beef or chicken with rice or quinoa or potatoes with vegetables

Snack: quest bar or nuts

Dinner: some lean protein with rice or pasta or potatoes or quinoa with vegetables

Before bed: whey protein

If I need extra calories I typically go for pouring a tbsp of olive oil over meals.

My diet is definitely carb dominant, I’ve done lower carb before but found my performance in the gym was lacking. However, my performance right now blows anyway so I’m willing to try anything.


#65

Hmm, that’s almost as low as mine is typically. And you experience no spikes in E2 at that frequency?

To be honest, when I was doing my urologist-recommended (terrible) protocol of 200mg every 2 weeks it took 7 months to reach an E2 of 47. On daily shots at 10mg ED my E2 went from 25-45 from week 4 to week 8. Could this be due to the half-life of cypionate?


#66

I do have high E2, in proportion with my absurdly high T, I’m asymptomatic tho so I don’t care


#67

I see you said you’re at the low end for a supraphysiological dose. How do you feel at that level?


#68

Could be other reasons why e2 kept climbing. Like fat gain. What you ate the before.
Did you repeat the e2 test? There alot of variability.


#69

I didn’t repeat the test. At the time I was under the care of a urologist and was just trusting that he knew what he was doing, he didn’t. Knowing what I know now I would have just lowered the dose and kept living life. I felt like Superman in the 700-900 range from July to December 2017.

I didn’t gain a lot of fat either. I was in a very small caloric surplus which was doing wonders for muscle gain.

My point in that post was that it took so many months to get to that level of E2 and this time around it only took 3-4 weeks. Probably (I’m just guessing here) with the half-life of cyp, at 200mg dosage e2w, E2 (and test) were peaking and dropping off before each subsequent shot. So it took longer for the E2 build-up.


#70

Curious as to what @physioLojik has to say here.
You said before that you had blood sugar issues. Do you have any numbers?


#71

Why not just keep carbs pre peri and post workout and then switch up to proteins and fats?

If you have blood sugar issues you need to be super mindful of that because thats directly correlated to low shbg. What you guys seem to be missing are the correlative studies showing low shbg is correlated to early death. There are shbg receptors in cardiac tissue.

People makes this huge deal about injection frequency based on shbg - that’s so narrow minded. Shbg changes with insulin. It’s like cats chronically chasing tails around here.

Want to raise your shbg? Lower your carbs a little and take berberine.


#72

I had one low reading and my PCP said they think it was because I had an ear infection. Allegedly infections cause glucose to be processed faster somehow?

My readings have been:

84, 69 and 89


#73

What I think is narrow minded is NOT considering frequency as an alternate method of application.

Going low carb will likely not affect shbg. I used to take a low carb approach and my shbg was still low. Currently I do pre and post workout carbs, and still low. But I like being more lean.

I think until we know more about shbg and how the body truly adjusts it, ruling out frequency as a means of controlling e2 is ignorant.

Just a different opinion I guess. And I’m a lawyer, not a Dr like physio.


#74

Pretty sure I would fall out if mine got to 69…lol If I drive it down in the 80s I start shaking. It was 109 when I went to see the quack. He said it was fine because the other numbers were good.


#75

I’ve seen plenty of information about it. I’ve been to seminars where it’s also discussed and debated. Shbg doesn’t dictate the release of estered testosterone - Whether you are low or high. This is pharmacodynamics. It matters when using prop or suspension - which no one does here for TRT. I don’t know where this idea came from but it isn’t real. What can change metabolism is whether someone is a hyper or hypo excretor and that typically has more to do with liver function and thyroid. I posted a video awhile back with Serrano discussing shbg.


#76

Nobody is making that claim here.

People use a daily injection protocol in an attempt to always have a small amount of testosterone available to use, but not too much, as too much will yield too much e2 (in someone with lowered shbg).

Smaller amounts of T are being unestered at a time, thereby (and hopefully) lowering e2 all while keeping the body supplied with fresh T.

Again, we’re all guinea pigs with different physiology unique to ourselves. Not turning over all stones here would be a mistake.

We may be arguing two separate things here. Not sure.


#77

Legit thought I was dying at 69 haha.


#78

It doesn’t look like he was saying dont use injection frequency as a variable, just that you should judge the efficacy of your frequency using just SHBG numbers.

Am I wrong there @physioLojik

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#79

I have seen the studies on this, it’s concerning.

I’ll work on blood glucose, see if that helps. Should I be pretty much demanding insulin testing from my PCP?


#80

What do you consider low for a daily total?


#81

It’s all subjective, but for me, low is under 75g daily.

I’d like to look into berberine as physio mentioned. If it does have the propensity to increase shbg, I’m all for trying it.