T Nation

Boron - All My Patients Use It and So Should You


Lol no tits yet. The resulting depression that came with my last E2 bout is something that made me really panicked and uncomfortable. I was having thoughts that, to put it mildly, were concerning.

It’s just not a place I want to be, nor can I expect my wife to be ok with me waiting out these symptoms for a couple months hoping they’ll resolve spontaneously.

I do want to be clear though, I do hear you guys on being patient. Even though I’ve had ups and downs, my best results have been from waiting certain symptoms out.


TRT greatly increased my reaction to stimulants. Caffeine and tyrosine included.

I also had very bad panic style attacks, and “kidney pain” where I felt like my adrenals were going haywire. I knew it was my adrenals because I had a near fall off my bike and instantly I had that RUSH and felt discomfort on top of my kidneys. Have you had cortisol checked?


You sir are an outlier and I would never suggest to you to follow a standard protocol. I wish you luck.


The stimulant problem developed before TRT. I haven’t had my cortisol checked in years. I did have it checked in 2014 based on my records but I have no idea what for. I’ll have to do it again sometime.

Knock on wood but my anxiety has been very low for a couple months now. Usually if I’m “symptomatic” these days it’s feeling depressed or lethargic.


I think I have something weird going on for sure. Makes asking for help really difficult because I don’t know where to start.


@jpt365 and everyone else. It’s unlikely estrogen is causing you panic attack etc. it’s likely testosterone ramping up your cns and also causing dopamine sensitivity. What were your test levels with elevated e2


They were around 957 I believe(TT). FT was 28.9. @physioLojik


This is what I was referencing.


@jpt365 you just probably need a reduced dosage of test.

Here’s the deal. One of the reasons it’s easier for me to work with people privately is that there are way too many factors to go through that can be used to determine someone’s individuality in regards to treatment. Stress and work and individual personality effects the treatment profiles I use.


I wish I could work with you brother. This “one standard fits all” shit is killing me. I really don’t know how much lower in dose to go. According to my current trt-prescriber I’m way underdosed and I need to step it up and add an AI in for the inevitable E2 conversion. I’m sure we can all agree that this is not the best route or sustainable long-term.

Right now I’m at 56mg per week, or 8mg ED. Just came down from 10mg ED which brought me to an
E2 or 45 and the aforementioned symptoms. Any advice on where I go from here? I’m feeling ok at the moment, only exercise intolerance I’m dealing with, but I feel like I’m walking on eggshells and waiting for E2 to go up again.

Also, I discovered that my ferritin is 26 in a reference range of 22-322. Is this too low and does it have any bearing on my exercise intolerance? My trt-prescriber’s nurse and PCP dismissed it as normal. The studies I’ve read on decent ferritin levels beg to differ. @unreal24278 did address this in another thread, but thought I’d also seek your expertise on the matter.


@jpt365 feel free to email me. It’s in my bio. You’re too low currently. We need to change a lot.


Are you shooting long estered test ED? That’s totally unessecary


Test cyp, something like a 7-8 day half-life, right? Let me ask you, is there some sort of a systemic build-up of this stuff with ED shots due to the long half-life?


Yes, it builds up. The half life is long…

The goal with daily shots is to reduce e2 for those that convert quickly.

My shbg is on the low side and I don’t feel much from trt. I am trying 10mg a day of cyp in order to lower my e2 down. I am theorizing that e2 needs to be lowered down to under the 20s in order to prevent so much free e2 floating around. No other protocol has helped.


If it builds up over time wouldn’t your E2 just get high like mine did with cypionate? I’m low shbg too and I convert at a high rate. I too used 10mg ED. Be careful lowering your E2 below 20. Mine got to 22 and I felt like an emotionless zombie and my mind couldn’t communicate with my junk. It might have even gotten lower than that but that’s what I tested at.


You guys need to address why the shbg is low.o low shbg is directly correlated with insulin. So we need to take objective looks at your diets. It isn’t just the hormones.


Is it possible that one could have a low shbg reading due to a high carb diet. Or high shbg due to a high carb diet?

I’ve run some extreme diets in my day. Mostly Very low carb. When my shbg was higher, say 25ish, I was on low low carb.


insulin is a hormone :troll:


Yebut the HL of TC isn’t short enough to warrant daily shots vs say 2x/wk. Say the HL of TC is 8D so you decide to shoot ED after 8 days you’ll have half of that amount in your system. So lets say you peak out at 1000ng/dl, if in 8 days you’ll be at 500ng/dl (hear me out here), you shoot ED 500/8 = 62.5 so ED you’re fluctuating between 1000 and 937.5ng/dl… with e3.5d you’re still pinning less than HALF every HALF life with an 8D HL so fluctuations in hormonal status will be less than 25% (less than the bodies natural circadium rhythm for a young person). So unless you’re peaking at vastly supra physiologic territories, E2 shouldn’t be that big of an issue, as E2 (and it’s other metabolites) levels are directly correlated with T concentration.

I pin e7d and my SHBG (on a low end supraphysiologic dose of T) is 14 (androgen, esp DHT has a high binding affinity for SHBG), on TRT it’s around 15-30 (fluctuates wildly)


I hear you and appreciate the reply.

Nothing has worked. I’ve been on numerous protocols and I’ve basically felt nothing. I’m trying something new with hopes I feel something.