Born-Again Beginner

Hey all, I was on this board 24/7 several years ago, and was always a huge Testosterone/Biotest supporter until back surgery made me a bit lazy…for a long time. I’ve spent about 4 years re-insulating my fat ass, and once work offered up about 600 bucks for a weight loss contest, I thought I’d see what I could do. Supplements include a protein powder, Flameout, HOT-ROX Extreme, and I’ll add in Superfood once it comes in the mail. So far, 3 weeks in, I’m down 13 lbs. and 1.5% bf.

FYI:

Starting Weight: 223
Height: 5’7"
BF: 30%

Diet/supps:

7:00 am - 2 HOT-ROX Extreme

8:00 am - protein shake(1 scoop protein, 1 tsp. sf/ff pudding mix, 1/4 cup dry oats, 3 oz. creatine), 2 Flameout…306 cal, 7 f/37 c/25 p

10:00 am - protein shake(1 scoop protein, 1 tsp. sf/ff pudding mix, 1/4 cup dry oats, 3 oz. creatine) 285 cal, 5 f/37 c/25 p

12:00 pm - chicken breast, 12 carrots, ff yogurt, 2 Flameout, 2 HOT-ROX Extreme ~ 250 cal, 3 f/15 c/30 p

3:00 pm - protein shake (1 scoop protein, 1 tsp. sf/ff pudding mix), banana ~250 cal, 2 f/15? c/20 p

6:00 pm - chicken breast, green beans ~200 cal, 1 f/16 c/23 p

9:00 pm - protein shake (1 scoop protein, 1 tsp. sf/ff pudding mix, 8 oz. milk), ~235 cal, 2 f/21 c/28 p

Could you guys take a look at this and see what you think as far as nutrition and supplements?

Working out is just coming around…2 nights a week of MMA training, and lifting is just starting up and the plan will be 3 days of lifting per week.

Thanks for any input, and kiss my ass to all the “damn, you’re fat” responses I get.

It’s one thing to win a bet, another to lose weight in order to keep it off.

Assuming the 1.5% is correct, and it probably is, you are losing about 1/2 fat and 1/2 muscle. Assuming you continue at that rate, by the time you have lost 50 lbs, you will have lost 25lbs of muscle. When you stop dieting you will quickly regain your fat without the muscle and you will be closer to 40% fat.

Keep going the way you are going and you may win the bet.

If you want to regain your health, slow down and start eating for the long run.

Stu

Thanks for the reply. I guess I should have mentioned that this was all using the Tanita scale the boss is borrowing from a local boxing gym. I’m sure it’s an expensive piece of equipment, but I doubt it’s the most accurate.

I do completely understand your point. In a perfect world, I wouldn’t be trying to lose this much this quickly. I don’t anticipate staying on this much of a caloric deficit at the end of the 15 weeks (12 now), but will still keep it low once this is over. Honestly, I’ve never had a problem putting on muscle mass, it’s keeping fat off that’s an issue for me.

Anyway, thanks again for the response.

Edit: Upon further review, what exactly is your reasoning for saying I’m setting up to gain more fat? I see your number regarding the lost bodyfat. A healthy chunk of the first weeks loss (10 lbs.) was obviously water retained by a horrible diet leading up to this contest. I’ll be getting a majority of my cardio doing MMA work, not hours on the treadmill.

I will be lifting heavy…well, heavy for me at least. I’m taking in a pretty decent amount of protein. Are you basing it basically on the %bf lost vs. weight lost? Or on the high caloric deficit?

I want to make it clear, I know I’m in the beginner forum, but I have done a pretty decent amount of lifting and researching. I was just looking for a review of the diet to see if there’s any glaring problems I’m overlooking.

Thanks again for any input.

If you have muscle and are active you should have no trouble keeping fat off. Therefore I assume you are incorrect.

You say you are about to start a weight training program but you haven’t yet. I based my remarks on your previous 2 weeks. I’m basing the projected rebound on the fact that you are losing weight too quickly, are not yet taking steps to stop muscle loss and you have an unsustainable diet. When you do stop your current diet you will rebound with no muscle to hold you down and you will get fatter than you are now. That is predictable and has been repeated by millions of people.

You diet is mostly protein with very little real food so you have no “diet” to review.

You need to develop an sustainable eating program and weight training program. You need to make these habits that you can sustain consistently for life. You need to not focus on “weight” but on strength and health.

I don’t mean to come down hard on you but you need to know the right way to do this.

Maybe this bet will give you a kick start and that’s good. Take the time to learn about nutrition on this site. Start a good program for weight training. There are several to choose from.

I’m curious about MMA. Is that something you picked up recently as a weight loss tool or have you been doing it for some time?

Stu

[quote]stuward wrote:
If you have muscle and are active you should have no trouble keeping fat off. Therefore I assume you are incorrect.

You say you are about to start a weight training program but you haven’t yet. I based my remarks on your previous 2 weeks. I’m basing the projected rebound on the fact that you are losing weight too quickly, are not yet taking steps to stop muscle loss and you have an unsustainable diet. When you do stop your current diet you will rebound with no muscle to hold you down and you will get fatter than you are now. That is predictable and has been repeated by millions of people.

You diet is mostly protein with very little real food so you have no “diet” to review.

You need to develop an sustainable eating program and weight training program. You need to make these habits that you can sustain consistently for life. You need to not focus on “weight” but on strength and health.

I don’t mean to come down hard on you but you need to know the right way to do this.

Maybe this bet will give you a kick start and that’s good. Take the time to learn about nutrition on this site. Start a good program for weight training. There are several to choose from.

I’m curious about MMA. Is that something you picked up recently as a weight loss tool or have you been doing it for some time?

Stu[/quote]

I have muscle, and was very active in the past. As I said, I had back surgery and used that as an excuse to get out of my workout routine…for several years, actually. Upon further review of the numbers, I’m more like 13 lbs. down, and 2.2% bf down (I actually increased 1% bf the first week, which is why I think a lot of the weight I lost up front was water weight, another reason I don’t think the muscle loss is near what you think it is). Feel free to assume I’m incorrect, but we all know what that does.

I am just starting a regular weight lifting schedule again. I’ve done enough lifting here and there over the last couple years that all my muscles aren’t completely atrophied, but I have lost a fair amount. However, even in my prime, I couldn’t get a low BF%, which is why I’m concentrating on it now. I’m aware of the cycle of losing too much muscle and not having the muscle to keep fat off once you come off the “diet”.

I may have been confusing with my initial intent. I know I need to concentrate on strenth and health, but for these purposes, I’m concentrating on weight. I know that once I come off of this diet, I will be going onto a nutrition plan. I’ll slowly incorporate more whole foods into my diet(by the way, a couple chicken breasts, oats, apples, carrots, bananas? You said there’s no whole food in this diet?).

I appreciate that you’re trying to tell me the things that people need when starting out. But I’ve been reading these training methods and diet methods since these guys were writing in MM2k. I waited with abaited breath on Fridays to see the new issue come out online. I even got the testosterone print issues for a bit. I’ve used MD6, MAG-10, TRIBEX, TRIBEX Gold, Grow!, Grow! bars, HOT-ROX, Alpha Male, ZMA, etc. I’ve done the T-Dawg diet, fat fast diet, done the German Volume Training as prescribed by Poloquin, dabbled in meltdown training and EDT, etc. I been lifting off and on for almost two decades, so I do have a decent idea what I’m talking about. I was just looking for oversights on the diet was all. Upon further review, I should’ve been more clear with what I was asking.

The MMA was just a hobby messing around with a couple guys from the gym doing some boxing, then started some privates with a Muy Thai guy, then started a formal martial arts just in the last couple years. I’m just finding that being out of shape, both in cardio and in strength, is really hampering my abilities to choke people and make their lives unpleasant.

Well it seems like you know a lot. You’ve read a lot. You’ve trained a lot. Why did you come on here to not take advice.

Then why post in the Beginner section?

Why not post in Bodybuilding or 35 and Older? I’m guessing you’re in your 30s since you’ve been training for 20+ years.

Stuward, I’ll apologize on behalf of mrcold for wasting your time and for him not appreciating your suggestions. Since he knows it all.

Mr Cold, I’m just trying to get you fired up so you really understand your motives and goals.

The key component of any plan, lifting, diet, whatever, is consistency. This is something you are lacking in. Studies show that dieting on and off will cost you muscle and increase bf% over the long run. As well going on and off exercise programs will do the same.

Read these articles:

Especially this one:

I’m not going to get into the supplements discussion. I’ll leave that to someone else.

I really hope you get on board with a healthy lifestyle and make the long term changes you need.

What’s your weight training plan and when does it start?

Stu

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
Well it seems like you know a lot. You’ve read a lot. You’ve trained a lot. Why did you come on here to not take advice.[/quote]

Because the advice he offered is correct and valuable to someone who doesn’t have a stated goal of maximizing weight lost without as much regard to percentage of fat vs. percentage of muscle mass lost. I’m well aware of how yoyo dieting works. I’m not planning on doing this and suddenly returning to my couch to not work out again for 4 years. I do know how to adapt my diet when coming off of this.

Because in non-beginner forums, people tend to develop cliques and attitudes that are not exactly accepting to new people in their domain. I thought coming on here and admitting I was out of shape and consider myself basically a beginner again, I would avoid the condescending attitudes.

[quote]Why not post in Bodybuilding or 35 and Older? I’m guessing you’re in your 30s since you’ve been training for 20+ years.

Stuward, I’ll apologize on behalf of mrcold for wasting your time and for him not appreciating your suggestions. Since he knows it all.[/quote]

Because I’m not 35 or older, but yes I’m in my 30s. I appreciate you apologizing for me, but it’s unnecessary. Stuward is aware that he was throwing some minor jabs into his posts. I just wanted to make it clear that I do know what I’m talking about, but had a specific goal for this diet. It does look like it was in the wrong forum. I apologize for that.

And Stuward, I apologize for His Dudeness speaking incorrectly for me. I do appreciate your taking the time to respond. I wasn’t trying to be an asshat with my response, just saying I guess I’m not really that much of a beginner. I was looking for a review of the diet overall, and that was about it.

[quote]stuward wrote:
Mr Cold, I’m just trying to get you fired up so you really understand your motives and goals.

The key component of any plan, lifting, diet, whatever, is consistency. This is something you are lacking in. Studies show that dieting on and off will cost you muscle and increase bf% over the long run. As well going on and off exercise programs will do the same.

Read these articles:

Especially this one:

I’m not going to get into the supplements discussion. I’ll leave that to someone else.

I really hope you get on board with a healthy lifestyle and make the long term changes you need.

What’s your weight training plan and when does it start?

Stu[/quote]

The supplements I’m on now only consist of Flameout and protein powder, plus HOT-ROX for added fat loss (and getting out of bed in the morning).

Up until my surgery, I did live in the gym. Over the 3-4 years after my surgery, I packed on about 55 pounds of what we’ll call “not-so-lean” weight.

My weight training for the first 4-6 weeks is basically going to be a get back in lifting shape phase. It’ll likely be the generic chest/back monday, arms/shoulders wednesday, and legs on fridays. 3 exercises with 3 sets of 10 on each. 2 of the 3 free weights, then probably a machine for the 3rd exercise. If sets are completed, up the weights 2.5-5% per workout. Once I’m settled in, I like to get rid of cardio on the ellipticals/treadmills, and get cardio through working out. Then I’ll start supersets with the two bodyparts I’m working. I’ve found I not only get the best workouts this way, but also feel great and get done quickly. If I’m lifting at home, I’m also going to start a lifting combined with heavy bag training between sets to overcome some of the issues I have with getting winded in a hurry when sparring.

Anyway, I didn’t mean to get long-winded in this. I started out just looking to see if I’m missing anything in the diet plan, sorry things took a turn for the worse. I’ll move to the over 35 lifter forum and lie about my age for a couple years. :wink:

Mr Cold. I hope I didn’t come across as too preachy. That wasn’t my intent.

Your diet looks like a Velocity Diet. Lots of guys in the bodybuilder page use that and it does work. It’s not for beginners (I know) with 30%bf. It’s for getting the last few pounds off and getting into contest shape. It’s not a sustainable eating plan. I’m not a fan of dieting in general but the tool is there and it’s a matter of knowing when to use it.

Posting this as a V-Diet question may get you a better response.

Stu

That is a sad reality. I now understand why you want to bypass some of the core ‘squats and milk’ advice.

That is a clear and precise question.

Well if I offended, then I’m sorry. I got the vibe that you had an all-knowing attitude that was refusing advice that was offered. Let me reread your original and see if I can come up with a helpful suggestion. Again, sorry.

[quote]mrcold wrote:
Stu

The supplements I’m on now only consist of Flameout and protein powder, plus HOT-ROX for added fat loss (and getting out of bed in the morning).

Up until my surgery, I did live in the gym. Over the 3-4 years after my surgery, I packed on about 55 pounds of what we’ll call “not-so-lean” weight.

My weight training for the first 4-6 weeks is basically going to be a get back in lifting shape phase. It’ll likely be the generic chest/back monday, arms/shoulders wednesday, and legs on fridays. 3 exercises with 3 sets of 10 on each. 2 of the 3 free weights, then probably a machine for the 3rd exercise. If sets are completed, up the weights 2.5-5% per workout. Once I’m settled in, I like to get rid of cardio on the ellipticals/treadmills, and get cardio through working out. Then I’ll start supersets with the two bodyparts I’m working. I’ve found I not only get the best workouts this way, but also feel great and get done quickly. If I’m lifting at home, I’m also going to start a lifting combined with heavy bag training between sets to overcome some of the issues I have with getting winded in a hurry when sparring.

Anyway, I didn’t mean to get long-winded in this. I started out just looking to see if I’m missing anything in the diet plan, sorry things took a turn for the worse. I’ll move to the over 35 lifter forum and lie about my age for a couple years. :wink:

[/quote]

That looks like a good way to get back into it. The 10 reps sets will give you a little cardio boost especially on the big movements.

I’ve seen posters there under 35, so don’t let that stop you.

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
Because in non-beginner forums, people tend to develop cliques and attitudes that are not exactly accepting to new people in their domain. I thought coming on here and admitting I was out of shape and consider myself basically a beginner again, I would avoid the condescending attitudes.
That is a sad reality. I now understand why you want to bypass some of the core ‘squats and milk’ advice.

I guess I’m not really that much of a beginner. I was looking for a review of the diet overall, and that was about it.
That is a clear and precise question.

Well if I offended, then I’m sorry. I got the vibe that you had an all-knowing attitude that was refusing advice that was offered. Let me reread your original and see if I can come up with a helpful suggestion. Again, sorry.[/quote]

Ok, we’re all friends again. Nah, didn’t offend…I don’t get offended. Bitchy or pissy on occasion, maybe even whiney, but not offended.

Thanks for the comments. I knew a Tick/Lebowski fan couldn’t be all bad.

[quote]stuward wrote:
Mr Cold. I hope I didn’t come across as too preachy. That wasn’t my intent.

Your diet looks like a Velocity Diet. Lots of guys in the bodybuilder page use that and it does work. It’s not for beginners (I know) with 30%bf. It’s for getting the last few pounds off and getting into contest shape. It’s not a sustainable eating plan. I’m not a fan of dieting in general but the tool is there and it’s a matter of knowing when to use it.

Posting this as a V-Diet question may get you a better response.

Stu[/quote]

Perfect! That’s what I wanted to hear. I know there’s not really any healthy diets for “hey, I want to lose 60 pounds in 2 months, what should I do?”, but I’m going to give it a go because I get to rat hole all this money from the wife.

Thanks again, guys, sorry for coming across as a prick on my first thread back on the board.

If you are just looking for a critique on the diet, then here you go:

Too few calories (only about 1526 according to your numbers).

Too little protein (only 151 g according to your numbers)

Too little healthy fats (only 20g according to your numbers, though i think they are wrong)

Too many carbs in relation to fats for a fast fat loss diet (only 141 g according to your numbers)

You are getting a 40/50/10 (P/C/F) macro split.

So you actually don’t know anything.

Try getting 1g protein per lb of bodyweight. Keep your carbs under 50 per day, and make up the rest in healthy fats. Something like:

220g protein = 36g per 6 meals
50g carbs = <10 per meal
140g fats = 23g per meal
Total of approx. 2300 calories.

Weight train 4 days per week Total Body, and do 3 sessions of HIIT + 45 minute fast walk every morning.

I came up with that in much less than two decades.

[quote]PozzSka wrote:
If you are just looking for a critique on the diet, then here you go:

Too few calories (only about 1526 according to your numbers).

Too little protein (only 151 g according to your numbers)

Too little healthy fats (only 20g according to your numbers, though i think they are wrong)

Too many carbs in relation to fats for a fast fat loss diet (only 141 g according to your numbers)

You are getting a 40/50/10 (P/C/F) macro split.

So you actually don’t know anything.

Try getting 1g protein per lb of bodyweight. Keep your carbs under 50 per day, and make up the rest in healthy fats. Something like:

220g protein = 36g per 6 meals
50g carbs = <10 per meal
140g fats = 23g per meal
Total of approx. 2300 calories.

Weight train 4 days per week Total Body, and do 3 sessions of HIIT + 45 minute fast walk every morning.

I came up with that in much less than two decades.[/quote]

Thanks for the input. You were right, my fat numbers were off. It’s 2.8 g per 2 Flameout, so those numbers aren’t quite as low. I’m going to cut the pudding mix out of the shakes, as well as the oats out of all but the morning one. I can also start to add more protein powder to my shakes to bring the protein more in line. I’ll add either 1 or two more Flameout to my meals, or have 2 with each meal rather than just 2 meals.

Yes, the calories are low, but that’s kind of by design. Probably a bit lower than they should be, but in reality total calories tend to creep above what they’re actually calculated at anyway. I’ll add protein and some more fats for more calories. Plus, I’ll eliminate more of the carbs(whole fruits, mostly) once I get my Superfood in. I didn’t realize I had my carbs getting that high up.

As for the fat fast comment, I stated that I was going to do the fat fast at the end of this, not now. I’m well aware that what I’m doing isn’t the fat-fast diet. What do ya know, I actually do know something…

As for the rest…meh, the informational part of your response outweighs your dickheadedness, so I’ll just leave it at thanks again.