T Nation

Bored with Westside


#1

Hey guys just wondering if other ppl have this problem.

I recently began doing Westside PL program, with two ME and two DE days.

While the program is working(up 5 Kg on max bench, and 10Kg on squat), and I love going to the gym on ME days(love training like a PL), I absolutely dread DE days. It's not that it's hard, it's just so repetitive(i.e. doing up to 10 working sets on the bench).

Now I'm not looking for the replies "Just Fuckin DO it" - that's a given - I'm gonna stick with it and see how well it works.
Just interested if anyone else felt this shall we call it feeling of "going through the motions" on DE day?
I also felt the same with GVT about 2 years ago.


#2

I started Westside-style programming this past spring . not bored at all with it yet .

I do a 3/week version , replacing DE bench with RE . the other day is ME squat/DL.


#3

Wow i’ve never been ‘bored’. but i understand. i’ve always done high set shit. even when i was a noob i’d still do 3 warmup sets and then 3-4work sets so I was still up there.

how strong are you right now?
what are your goals?
what is your level of conditioning?
why westside as opposed to some other protocal?

…if you’re a PL it shouldn’t bore you, this is your time to work on your technique. Also you should be only doing 30s-1min rest (depending on your level of gpp). So that shit should go by pretty fast.

Maybe throw in an RE day every now and then?

Or maybe put better songs on your mp3 player :slight_smile:


#4

Yeah dude, unless you can bench over 300, squat over 4, and deadlift over 5 just scrap the DE days. Powerlifters who already have the base of strength looking to increase their totals gain some benefit from the DE days, but if you’re not competing substitute DE for RE (repetition effort) days.

Just do more of a bodybuilding style on those days. And instead of DE lower body days just do Oly lifts those days (hang snatch, power clean, clean and jerk, etc). I think you’ll find that alot better.


#5

[quote]SlothGuy wrote:
Yeah dude, unless you can bench over 300, squat over 4, and deadlift over 5 just scrap the DE days. Powerlifters who already have the base of strength looking to increase their totals gain some benefit from the DE days, but if you’re not competing substitute DE for RE (repetition effort) days.

Just do more of a bodybuilding style on those days. And instead of DE lower body days just do Oly lifts those days (hang snatch, power clean, clean and jerk, etc). I think you’ll find that alot better.[/quote]

Wait…so youre telling him to scrap speed work for rep stuff? And then instead of traditional speed work, do olympic lifts? What do you want him to do and why do you want him to do it…or are you just regurgitating some shit you read elsewhere?

There is no magic number at which getting faster will suddenly become effective. How about a 148’er who benches 280 raw? Will speed work be ineffective for him? How about a female who benches 250 raw? Will it not work for her?

Maybe what you meant to say is that if you dont have any MUSCLE…dynamic work will not be as effective…and I would agree with that, but making a blanket statement like “if you cant squat 400 lbs, then speed work wont do anything for you” is kind of dumb. Especially when you go on to tell him to essentially do another type of dynamic training.

OP, what I do is use my speed days as an opportunity to 1) focus on technique and 2)go heavier on my assistance work. For example, I do speed bench, and then work on going through a rep/set/weight progression on floor press in the 5 rep range.

That way I can set a pr of some sort on floor presses and it gives me something to get amped about on speed days.


#6

^^which is why i asked those questions. don’t know enough to give an answer. “i’m bored” isn’t exactly something you can build an analysis from.


#7

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Wow i’ve never been ‘bored’. but i understand. i’ve always done high set shit. even when i was a noob i’d still do 3 warmup sets and then 3-4work sets so I was still up there.

how strong are you right now?
what are your goals?
what is your level of conditioning?
why westside as opposed to some other protocal?

…if you’re a PL it shouldn’t bore you, this is your time to work on your technique. Also you should be only doing 30s-1min rest (depending on your level of gpp). So that shit should go by pretty fast.

Maybe throw in an RE day every now and then?

Or maybe put better songs on your mp3 player :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Strength-Wise at the moment:
Squat: 180
Bench: 110
DL: 190
Goals at the mo: Longterm goal to look like a BB and be as strong as fuck, the latter of which I am working on at the moment.
I just decided it was time to boost those lifts and rather than trying to mix PL with BB, I decided to concentrate on PL and get as strong as possible.

Ok, I’ve heard of the RE days, and actually my workout partner does RE on my DE days, both do ME days together.

Ya, I love listening to heavy music while lifting heavy shit, love working with singles, doubles and triples with close to 1 RPs but I just find it so hard to get motivated to go under a bar, loaded with bout 60% of max, and bust out 2 reps as fast as possible…
and then repeat 9 times.


#8

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
SlothGuy wrote:
Yeah dude, unless you can bench over 300, squat over 4, and deadlift over 5 just scrap the DE days. Powerlifters who already have the base of strength looking to increase their totals gain some benefit from the DE days, but if you’re not competing substitute DE for RE (repetition effort) days.

Just do more of a bodybuilding style on those days. And instead of DE lower body days just do Oly lifts those days (hang snatch, power clean, clean and jerk, etc). I think you’ll find that alot better.

Wait…so youre telling him to scrap speed work for rep stuff? And then instead of traditional speed work, do olympic lifts? What do you want him to do and why do you want him to do it…or are you just regurgitating some shit you read elsewhere?

There is no magic number at which getting faster will suddenly become effective. How about a 148’er who benches 280 raw? Will speed work be ineffective for him? How about a female who benches 250 raw? Will it not work for her?

Maybe what you meant to say is that if you dont have any MUSCLE…dynamic work will not be as effective…and I would agree with that, but making a blanket statement like “if you cant squat 400 lbs, then speed work wont do anything for you” is kind of dumb. Especially when you go on to tell him to essentially do another type of dynamic training.

OP, what I do is use my speed days as an opportunity to 1) focus on technique and 2)go heavier on my assistance work. For example, I do speed bench, and then work on going through a rep/set/weight progression on floor press in the 5 rep range.

That way I can set a pr of some sort on floor presses and it gives me something to get amped about on speed days.[/quote]

Hey thanks for the reply.
Ya something like that could work. At the moment, on DE bench day I’m doing speed bench(10 sets of 3 with 60-70% max), then going onto assistance tricep work(JM presses, cable pushdowns), then lat, and bicep work
That’s exectly what I’m looking for - that feeling where you go into the gym and you know today is gonna be a struggle and it pushes you that extra bit to move that weight.
Wheras I find with speed work there aint no way in hell I’m gonna fail so I find myself falling into the mentality of “get in - do it - get out”.


#9

[quote]SlothGuy wrote:
Yeah dude, unless you can bench over 300, squat over 4, and deadlift over 5 just scrap the DE days. Powerlifters who already have the base of strength looking to increase their totals gain some benefit from the DE days, but if you’re not competing substitute DE for RE (repetition effort) days.

Just do more of a bodybuilding style on those days. And instead of DE lower body days just do Oly lifts those days (hang snatch, power clean, clean and jerk, etc). I think you’ll find that alot better.[/quote]

Why does everyone like to put numbers and limits on things in powerlifting? You shouldn’t use gear until you can lift X pounds, belts are bad, speed work is useless unless you can do 3/4/5…

If you don’t feel like the speed work is beneficial for you, pick a different program that meets your needs, don’t further bastardize Westside by adding in an Oly Lift Day and a Bodybuilding Day.

And to the OP, No. You aren’t the only one that doesn’t enjoy speed work.


#10

[quote]rock27 wrote:

Strength-Wise at the moment:
Squat: 180
Bench: 110
DL: 190
Goals at the mo: Longterm goal to look like a BB and be as strong as fuck, the latter of which I am working on at the moment.
I just decided it was time to boost those lifts and rather than trying to mix PL with BB, I decided to concentrate on PL and get as strong as possible.

Ok, I’ve heard of the RE days, and actually my workout partner does RE on my DE days, both do ME days together.

Ya, I love listening to heavy music while lifting heavy shit, love working with singles, doubles and triples with close to 1 RPs but I just find it so hard to get motivated to go under a bar, loaded with bout 60% of max, and bust out 2 reps as fast as possible…
and then repeat 9 times.
[/quote]

Okay, so let me get this straight…you have no aspirations to be a powerlifter, you just want to be “strong as fuck.” There are a lot of other ways to get strong other than powerlifting. It seems like your goals are mainly aesthetic, so why are you training like a PL? Do you have any clear strength goals like say a 300 lb bench or 400lb squat, or do you just want to be “strong”?

I’m not trying to criticize, I’m just trying to ascertain what your goals truly are. If you’re not trying to compete in PL and DE stuff bores you, then you might be better suited doing something else. Somethinng like Wendler’s 5/3/1 training, DC style training, Defranco’s Westside for Skinny Bastards Template, would allow you to “lift heavy shit” as well as fulfilling your asthetic desires. If you want to stay with DE work so be it, but I just wanted to give you some options. Best of luck to you.


#11

Yeah guy, DE days are the fucking fun time days dude. ME days are manly and challenging but DE days should be fun.

You get to do a bit of speed work and focus on technique for a couple sets. But after that you get to do all kinds of that fun assistance shit that makes WS/conjugate cool. I mean you can program yourself to do almost anything you want in a way. Like finding out your ten rep max on press downs. Or seeing if you can hit the top of the machine with the plates doing bent rows for 5.

Make it fun dude. It’s assistance work, like the old school BBing shit from way back. you get to “feel the burn” and all that shit. Even a goddam day of clapping push-up competitions after your tech work. I always remember ME day being when you had to come in with your “mean” face on and fuck some shit up and DE day was about coming in with your “fun” face on and getting ready for cool creative training that just builds the body in general. We would do different shit like dips on rings or sand bag caber toss’. Make it a little competitive and have some fun with your DE days.

They are a super important part of the system but after your tech and speed full ROM shit you can do almost anything that would make you stronger and increase athleticism. Later on you might have to work out imbalances during this time but it is an open opportunity to play with wacky lifts and have fun with your training mates.

-chris


#12

If you’re bored, do somethign different. There’s no money in this shit- so you might as well keep it fun.

Hit two or three set of five instead of 3 x 8 or 2 x 12

One week- pick a light weight (225, 315, etc.) and do a couple rep-out sets- i.e. 10-20 reps.

On your light bench day, do nothing but dumbbell work.

If you have training partners, do rapid rotation light work- Thunderdome style. Pick a real easy weight for everyone. One guy takes his set of 1 to 5 and as soon as he is out from under the bar, the next guy goes under the bar. Repeat rapidly for however many sets it takes for everyone else to crap out.

Stuff like this is good for a change.


#13

[quote]rock27 wrote:
Strength-Wise at the moment:
Squat: 180
Bench: 110
DL: 190
[/quote]

I hope those are in kg’s.


#14

[quote]ultimatethor wrote:

Okay, so let me get this straight…you have no aspirations to be a powerlifter, you just want to be “strong as fuck.” There are a lot of other ways to get strong other than powerlifting. It seems like your goals are mainly aesthetic, so why are you training like a PL? Do you have any clear strength goals like say a 300 lb bench or 400lb squat, or do you just want to be “strong”?

I’m not trying to criticize, I’m just trying to ascertain what your goals truly are. If you’re not trying to compete in PL and DE stuff bores you, then you might be better suited doing something else. Somethinng like Wendler’s 5/3/1 training, DC style training, Defranco’s Westside for Skinny Bastards Template, would allow you to “lift heavy shit” as well as fulfilling your asthetic desires. If you want to stay with DE work so be it, but I just wanted to give you some options. Best of luck to you.[/quote]

I wouldn’t say I’ve got no aspirations to go into PL at some stage.
The simplest way I can put it is:
I wanna look like a bodybuilder, train like a powerlifter.
Cheers for your comments man.
My favourite method of training has always been a mix of PL and BB training, i.e. an example would be
Heavy squat working up to 4 or 5 sets of singles, front squats up to singles, then the BB type stuff like lunges, hypers, leg curls…etc.
But I also included oly lifts, however I kinda realised that I should become more specific in my training and focus on one goal at a time, hence the beginning of WS to up strenght.


#15

Do you use bands or chains at all?


#16

To avocado and pinto:
Thanks for some great alternatives, which I hadn’t even considered.
I will def try to implement some of these into my training.
I’ve got DE bench today, so think I’ll try to mix it up a small bit.
I’ll let ya know how I get on


#17

[quote]PHGN wrote:
rock27 wrote:
Strength-Wise at the moment:
Squat: 180
Bench: 110
DL: 190

I hope those are in kg’s.[/quote]

they are


#18

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Do you use bands or chains at all?[/quote]

No access to bands and chains in my present gym.


#19

yeah doing some strongman shit is the funnest if you have all the cool toys. and if not you can macgiver that shit too.

For example, every gym has a sled or prowler, it just hidden… in the treadmill! serious.

I love going up to a treadmill, turn it off, OFF! power out. Then get on and grab the handles by the computer screen thingy. Start trying to walk on it and move the belt by your self. You will find that once you get it moving you can try and get a sprint on.

You get too good at moving the belt alone and want some hard glute work on your new prowler? Go grab a 5 or 10kg plate and lean it up against the back of the tread mill. It will lay on the belt and cause extra friction making the belt oodles harder to push.

We would make a chalk mark on the belt so you can see when it makes a full rotation. Then we would have little competitions to see who could get the most rotations in 3 minutes with a 15kg plate leaning on the back of the belt (one end on the floor and the other against the back roller on the belt). incline makes it easier so keep it flat.

That was hard shit. Amazing what you can do with an unplugged hamster wheel and a pissing contest.

And nothing on earth is as amusing as throwing shit. Why not get some good size rocks or even DB’s/KB’s and see how far you can shot put those bitches. your score is the combined total of left and right arm throws. DB’s roll less. We spent one DE day overhead throwing 3 heavy old microwaves across the parking lot. those shits were heavy.

-chris


#20

[quote]rock27 wrote:
PHGN wrote:
rock27 wrote:
Strength-Wise at the moment:
Squat: 180
Bench: 110
DL: 190

I hope those are in kg’s.

they are[/quote]

Thank god.

OK well have you considered instead of DE work, doing more ME work (of course others have said that) but something like rest pause work, like DoggCrapp style? so for bench do some light warmups then 8-4-2 with your 8 rep max etc…

I only suggest this because I was also getting bored with the DE stuff and thought - craved - more rep work and then starting thinking rest pause might be a good thing to do, but then switched totally to doggcrapp for awhile which has been fun.

Also for awhile there I was doing 5x5 instead of DE work … and then the following week, doing 5x6 with the same weight ie adding a rep to each set with the same weight, then week 3, upping the weight and going 5x5. That was fun too.

What others have said is right, unless you are already really strong, DE work doesn’t do as much for you as RE work will, however, that is not always the case and does not mean it has no place (unless those weights were in pounds in which case each more dammit)