Book Recommendations?

[quote]Dustin wrote:
I’m not sure how far Diamond goes back historically in his book, but he claims that because of Europe’s geographical location, that they prospered and their accomplishments (good or bad) were felt around the world. His whole thesis seems revolve around geography. He does this while seemingly ignoring how biology and culture are all pieces of the puzzle as well. Do you understand what I was saying now?
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Not especially. In your original post, you said “Yeah, from reviews I’ve seen Diamond doesn’t think race and culture are related.” I parse this sentence to mean that you DO think that race and culture are “related,” which is to say, either mutually influenced by some other factor or factors, or that one is dependent in some large way upon the other.

Since the first option is nonsensical, and the second option only has one reasonable causal interpretation (that race causes culture), I must conclude that you believe that race causes, or significantly influences, culture. Do you mean to say instead that race and culture influence the accomplishments of a given people?

[quote]Dustin wrote:
Pre-dynastic Egypt was ruled by mediterranean people similar to the peoples living along the mediterranean and/or Aegean sea in Italy and Greece.

It was not until later dynasties that the Egyptian ruling class begins to look like “Africans”.

So Yes, as I said previosly, (sub-saharan) Africans remained hunter-gatherers.
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I didn’t realize that Gerzean Culture was ruled by mediterraneans. I know that the Ptolemies took over the dynasty after Alexander the Great died, but that was well after the dynastic period had started. But if your contention is that Black Africans are genetically different such that they are incapable of creating a civilization, I’d have to see better evidence.

[quote]nephorm wrote:

Not especially. In your original post, you said “Yeah, from reviews I’ve seen Diamond doesn’t think race and culture are related.” I parse this sentence to mean that you DO think that race and culture are “related,” which is to say, either mutually influenced by some other factor or factors, or that one is dependent in some large way upon the other.
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If the reviews I’ve read are accurate, Diamond focuses on geography for the development of Europe, while discarding the influence of biology (race) and culture. I don’t necessarily put one over the other in importance, but believe they are all factors. Diamond, as I said, appears to think otherwise.

I can’t state my opinion anymore clearly. Perhaps, I should just read the damn book and not rely on reviews. :slight_smile:

What is nonsensical? Please see my above statements. I believe race is a factor in the influence of culture.

Dustin

[quote]nephorm wrote:

I didn’t realize that Gerzean Culture was ruled by mediterraneans. I know that the Ptolemies took over the dynasty after Alexander the Great died, but that was well after the dynastic period had started. But if your contention is that Black Africans are genetically different such that they are incapable of creating a civilization, I’d have to see better evidence.[/quote]

Whether Black Africans are genetically capable or incapable of building great civilizations is not relavent, and was not my point. Only that early Ancient Egypt was ruled by a fair skinned mediterranean type people.

http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/egg1.htm

As I’ve said above, I don’t contend that this ruling class were nordic by any means, but that there was a mixture of Indo-European blood. The pictures clearly show this.

I’ve also seen photos of mummys online from the pre-dynastic period that have distinct European characteristics (i.e hair color and texture, as well as skull shape). I don’t know if they’ll show up clearly enough on this forum, but I might try and post some when I get the chance. Or, perhaps I could email them to you if you are interested.

Interesting topic, thanks for your input.

Dustin

[quote]Dustin wrote:
What is nonsensical? Please see my above statements. I believe race is a factor in the influence of culture.
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What was nonsensical was, as I said, “the first option”: that race and culture “mutually influenced by some other factor or factors.” You clarified by saying that you believe race to be a factor in culture.

[quote]Dustin wrote:

http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/egg1.htm

Dustin[/quote]

Sorry, but I’m loath to give too much credence to a “White Pride” website, just as I would suspect an agenda with a “Black Pride” website.

[quote]nephorm wrote:

Sorry, but I’m loath to give too much credence to a “White Pride” website, just as I would suspect an agenda with a “Black Pride” website.[/quote]

As I said, I don’t necessarily agree with the website that the individuals in question had nordic phenotypes, or the like. There just doesn’t seem to be any evidence of this. However, the pictures of pottery and sculptures do indicate a Indo-European admixture of early Egyptians (probably isolated to the ruling class). I think the site provided at least enough evidence to show that.

How much did you actually read from the link I provided?

Interestingly that you mentioned bias, some other sites I came across gave little if any credence to the possibility of what I’ve been saying. Yet they don’t provide any sort of first hand material (pottery, writings, scultpures, etc) to prove their point. The site I linked at least provides first hand evidence to make an argument.

Dustin