Book of Revalation

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:
Can someone explain the rebuilding of the temple? Is it where the Dome of the Rock is supposed to be? Who is supposed to rebuild it? Israel?

also

Is it pretty much a consensus that there will be some form of 1 world government? That is what I got from scripture study? RFID Chip possible Mark of Beast?

Sorry if this wasn’t the direction of the thread you wanted BBriere, just figured I would ask it here.[/quote]

They do not refer to America![/quote]

Agreed. For some reason many tie America too much with the biblical references. A few people I have talked to believe the U.S(as we know it) may not even be around when final pieces are in line. Of course thats all skepticism. [/quote]

I agree, my post never mentioned America BTW.[/quote]

Oh I know. I wasnt directing that at you. I just meant it generally.

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:
Can someone explain the rebuilding of the temple? Is it where the Dome of the Rock is supposed to be? Who is supposed to rebuild it? Israel?

also

Is it pretty much a consensus that there will be some form of 1 world government? That is what I got from scripture study? RFID Chip possible Mark of Beast?

Sorry if this wasn’t the direction of the thread you wanted BBriere, just figured I would ask it here.[/quote]

They do not refer to America![/quote]

Agreed. For some reason many tie America too much with the biblical references. A few people I have talked to believe the U.S(as we know it) may not even be around when final pieces are in line. Of course thats all skepticism. [/quote]

I agree, my post never mentioned America BTW.[/quote]

Oh I know. I wasnt directing that at you. I just meant it generally. [/quote]

Cool, I actually tend to agree with your friends who think the US won’t even remotely be what it is today when it all goes down. Such an interesting.

Iâ??ve read revelations, several books about it and done bible studies on it.

The most convincing explanation I’ve seen out there is that it’s really written about the time in which the book was written. Pretty much all of the “futuristic” references in it can be tied to events and circumstance in the roman empire of that time.

666 is a good example of what I’m talking about. You couldn’t get away with outright saying bad things about the emperor (nero). You could however do it in code. In the roman world it was not entirely uncommon to refer to people by the number equivalent in roman numerals of their name. They actually still have what is essentially carved graffiti where people use that terminology. What makes it really convening that 666 is referring to nero is the fact that there are actually 2 spellings of nero. One spelling is the number 666 the other is the number 669. That is important because there are actually a few early versions of the text that use the number 669 instead of 666. That is beyond coincidence.

I think the real truth of revelation is that it is just a common style of writing from that age. People wrote that way. Today, it comes of as mystic and prophetic because we just plain aren’t familiar with the style.

There is a very short book call “the mystery of revelation” or “reveling the mystery of revelation” or something that does a pretty convincing job.

I think there are things you can learn from the book, but I don’t think the message is to watch out for the mark of the beast on people’s foreheads or some other nonsense. I actually think the book is written about the past.

I can post the title of the book later if people are interested.

[quote]Deorum wrote:
Where does the anti-christ fit in? Isn’t there supposed to be some guy who comes along “supposedly” helping people and leads all of the Christians to their deaths? And by deaths I mean God takes them back to heaven or what not? Is that the basis of the whole anti-christ schtick? [/quote]

It depends on your interpretation of Revelation. Futurists believe that the Anti-Christ will arise at the end of times and lead many toward disobeying God. Historicists, such as Martin Luther and many church reformers, believed the papacy to be the Anti-Christ.

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]haney1 wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

  1. When it was written?
  2. Who wrote it?
  3. Is it full of future prophecies or prophecies that have already been fulfilled?

[/quote]

Answers in my opinion.

  1. Prior to 70 AD
  2. John the apostle
  3. It is full of prophecies that have been fulfilled and just a couple waiting to be fulfilled.

and for the record I tend to lean towards A-mil, with a partial preterist stance. I was raised with a dispensational up bringing, but have rejected that idea out right. My dad is still frustrated by it to this day.
[/quote]

So then if I’m guessing correctly, 666 is referring to Nero?[/quote]

No need to guess, that is the only possible observation from the answers I gave.

Clearly, at the end of the world, magic horseys will fly out of the sky.

No, really.

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]haney1 wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

  1. When it was written?
  2. Who wrote it?
  3. Is it full of future prophecies or prophecies that have already been fulfilled?

[/quote]

Answers in my opinion.

  1. Prior to 70 AD
  2. John the apostle
  3. It is full of prophecies that have been fulfilled and just a couple waiting to be fulfilled.

and for the record I tend to lean towards A-mil, with a partial preterist stance. I was raised with a dispensational up bringing, but have rejected that idea out right. My dad is still frustrated by it to this day.
[/quote]

Haney I agree with your 1. 2. 3. list. Could you please explain the second part?[/quote]

A-mil means amillennial. The A is a negative. It doesn’t mean I don’t believe in a millennial reign of Christ, it actually means that I believe we are and have been in that period since the temple was destroyed.

Preterist are similar to historicist in that all Prophecy has been fulfilled. Since I am a partial pretersist that means I think the only left is the resurrection described at the end of Revelation.

The resurrection is another term for the second coming as well.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Iâ??ve read revelations, several books about it and done bible studies on it.

The most convincing explanation I’ve seen out there is that it’s really written about the time in which the book was written. Pretty much all of the “futuristic” references in it can be tied to events and circumstance in the roman empire of that time.

666 is a good example of what I’m talking about. You couldn’t get away with outright saying bad things about the emperor (nero). You could however do it in code. In the roman world it was not entirely uncommon to refer to people by the number equivalent in roman numerals of their name. They actually still have what is essentially carved graffiti where people use that terminology. What makes it really convening that 666 is referring to nero is the fact that there are actually 2 spellings of nero. One spelling is the number 666 the other is the number 669. That is important because there are actually a few early versions of the text that use the number 669 instead of 666. That is beyond coincidence.

I think the real truth of revelation is that it is just a common style of writing from that age. People wrote that way. Today, it comes of as mystic and prophetic because we just plain aren’t familiar with the style.

There is a very short book call “the mystery of revelation” or “reveling the mystery of revelation” or something that does a pretty convincing job.

I think there are things you can learn from the book, but I don’t think the message is to watch out for the mark of the beast on people’s foreheads or some other nonsense. I actually think the book is written about the past.

I can post the title of the book later if people are interested.
[/quote]

In reagards to this viewpoint, what happens before Jesus comes back?

[quote]dk44 wrote:
Can someone explain the rebuilding of the temple? Is it where the Dome of the Rock is supposed to be? Who is supposed to rebuild it? Israel?

also

Is it pretty much a consensus that there will be some form of 1 world government? That is what I got from scripture study? RFID Chip possible Mark of Beast?

Sorry if this wasn’t the direction of the thread you wanted BBriere, just figured I would ask it here.[/quote]

I always like to ask this question when someone asks about the temple.

Where does it say it will be rebuilt?
Followed by wasn’t that book written before the second temple was built?
Why a need for a third temple?

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Iâ??ve read revelations, several books about it and done bible studies on it.

The most convincing explanation I’ve seen out there is that it’s really written about the time in which the book was written. Pretty much all of the “futuristic” references in it can be tied to events and circumstance in the roman empire of that time.

666 is a good example of what I’m talking about. You couldn’t get away with outright saying bad things about the emperor (nero). You could however do it in code. In the roman world it was not entirely uncommon to refer to people by the number equivalent in roman numerals of their name. They actually still have what is essentially carved graffiti where people use that terminology. What makes it really convening that 666 is referring to nero is the fact that there are actually 2 spellings of nero. One spelling is the number 666 the other is the number 669. That is important because there are actually a few early versions of the text that use the number 669 instead of 666. That is beyond coincidence.

I think the real truth of revelation is that it is just a common style of writing from that age. People wrote that way. Today, it comes of as mystic and prophetic because we just plain aren’t familiar with the style.

There is a very short book call “the mystery of revelation” or “reveling the mystery of revelation” or something that does a pretty convincing job.

I think there are things you can learn from the book, but I don’t think the message is to watch out for the mark of the beast on people’s foreheads or some other nonsense. I actually think the book is written about the past.

I can post the title of the book later if people are interested.
[/quote]

Interesting. I’ve always heard the two numbers were 666 or 616 depending on whether you used the Latin or Greek (Nero Cesar vs. Nero Caesar).

Yup. Still waitin on that dead guy to come back.

http://www.preterism.info/articles/jesus-predicted.htm

Taking bets on who rises again first, the south or jesus. Any takers?

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I�¢??ve read revelations, several books about it and done bible studies on it.

The most convincing explanation I’ve seen out there is that it’s really written about the time in which the book was written. Pretty much all of the “futuristic” references in it can be tied to events and circumstance in the roman empire of that time.

666 is a good example of what I’m talking about. You couldn’t get away with outright saying bad things about the emperor (nero). You could however do it in code. In the roman world it was not entirely uncommon to refer to people by the number equivalent in roman numerals of their name. They actually still have what is essentially carved graffiti where people use that terminology. What makes it really convening that 666 is referring to nero is the fact that there are actually 2 spellings of nero. One spelling is the number 666 the other is the number 669. That is important because there are actually a few early versions of the text that use the number 669 instead of 666. That is beyond coincidence.

I think the real truth of revelation is that it is just a common style of writing from that age. People wrote that way. Today, it comes of as mystic and prophetic because we just plain aren’t familiar with the style.

There is a very short book call “the mystery of revelation” or “reveling the mystery of revelation” or something that does a pretty convincing job.

I think there are things you can learn from the book, but I don’t think the message is to watch out for the mark of the beast on people’s foreheads or some other nonsense. I actually think the book is written about the past.

I can post the title of the book later if people are interested.
[/quote]

Interesting. I’ve always heard the two numbers were 666 or 616 depending on whether you used the Latin or Greek (Nero Cesar vs. Nero Caesar). [/quote]

Could be been a while sense I read the book. 669 was what I remember.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Yup. Still waitin on that dead guy to come back.

http://www.preterism.info/articles/jesus-predicted.htm

Taking bets on who rises again first, the south or jesus. Any takers?[/quote]

You obviously don’t understand what is meant by return in the preterist description.

[quote]haney1 wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:
Can someone explain the rebuilding of the temple? Is it where the Dome of the Rock is supposed to be? Who is supposed to rebuild it? Israel?

also

Is it pretty much a consensus that there will be some form of 1 world government? That is what I got from scripture study? RFID Chip possible Mark of Beast?

Sorry if this wasn’t the direction of the thread you wanted BBriere, just figured I would ask it here.[/quote]

I always like to ask this question when someone asks about the temple.

Where does it say it will be rebuilt?
Followed by wasn’t that book written before the second temple was built?
Why a need for a third temple?
[/quote]

Thanks for trying to involve me in the debate, however I am so far behind most of your guys in the knowledge dept on this issue. I will try tho…

  1. Not sure, I guess Herods Temple? Temple on the Mount
  2. I see your point here
  3. None really imo because of the Holy Spirit/New Coveant?

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I�¢??ve read revelations, several books about it and done bible studies on it.

The most convincing explanation I’ve seen out there is that it’s really written about the time in which the book was written. Pretty much all of the “futuristic” references in it can be tied to events and circumstance in the roman empire of that time.

666 is a good example of what I’m talking about. You couldn’t get away with outright saying bad things about the emperor (nero). You could however do it in code. In the roman world it was not entirely uncommon to refer to people by the number equivalent in roman numerals of their name. They actually still have what is essentially carved graffiti where people use that terminology. What makes it really convening that 666 is referring to nero is the fact that there are actually 2 spellings of nero. One spelling is the number 666 the other is the number 669. That is important because there are actually a few early versions of the text that use the number 669 instead of 666. That is beyond coincidence.

I think the real truth of revelation is that it is just a common style of writing from that age. People wrote that way. Today, it comes of as mystic and prophetic because we just plain aren’t familiar with the style.

There is a very short book call “the mystery of revelation” or “reveling the mystery of revelation” or something that does a pretty convincing job.

I think there are things you can learn from the book, but I don’t think the message is to watch out for the mark of the beast on people’s foreheads or some other nonsense. I actually think the book is written about the past.

I can post the title of the book later if people are interested.
[/quote]

In reagards to this viewpoint, what happens before Jesus comes back? [/quote]

In the viewpoint, Revelation relates to the time at hand (early AD) and really isn’t so much a prophecy about future events and what specifically happens step by step before Jesus comes back.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I�?�¢??ve read revelations, several books about it and done bible studies on it.

The most convincing explanation I’ve seen out there is that it’s really written about the time in which the book was written. Pretty much all of the “futuristic” references in it can be tied to events and circumstance in the roman empire of that time.

666 is a good example of what I’m talking about. You couldn’t get away with outright saying bad things about the emperor (nero). You could however do it in code. In the roman world it was not entirely uncommon to refer to people by the number equivalent in roman numerals of their name. They actually still have what is essentially carved graffiti where people use that terminology. What makes it really convening that 666 is referring to nero is the fact that there are actually 2 spellings of nero. One spelling is the number 666 the other is the number 669. That is important because there are actually a few early versions of the text that use the number 669 instead of 666. That is beyond coincidence.

I think the real truth of revelation is that it is just a common style of writing from that age. People wrote that way. Today, it comes of as mystic and prophetic because we just plain aren’t familiar with the style.

There is a very short book call “the mystery of revelation” or “reveling the mystery of revelation” or something that does a pretty convincing job.

I think there are things you can learn from the book, but I don’t think the message is to watch out for the mark of the beast on people’s foreheads or some other nonsense. I actually think the book is written about the past.

I can post the title of the book later if people are interested.
[/quote]

In reagards to this viewpoint, what happens before Jesus comes back? [/quote]

In the viewpoint, Revelation relates to the time at hand (early AD) and really isn’t so much a prophecy about future events and what specifically happens step by step before Jesus comes back.[/quote]

So no 1 world gov., currency, antichrist? How does the world come to an end?

[quote]haney1 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Yup. Still waitin on that dead guy to come back.

http://www.preterism.info/articles/jesus-predicted.htm

Taking bets on who rises again first, the south or jesus. Any takers?[/quote]

You obviously don’t understand what is meant by return in the preterist description.[/quote]

I’ve always understood “the return” to be Jesus coming back to earth.

Feel free to explain what it really means.

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]haney1 wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:
Can someone explain the rebuilding of the temple? Is it where the Dome of the Rock is supposed to be? Who is supposed to rebuild it? Israel?

also

Is it pretty much a consensus that there will be some form of 1 world government? That is what I got from scripture study? RFID Chip possible Mark of Beast?

Sorry if this wasn’t the direction of the thread you wanted BBriere, just figured I would ask it here.[/quote]

I always like to ask this question when someone asks about the temple.

Where does it say it will be rebuilt?
Followed by wasn’t that book written before the second temple was built?
Why a need for a third temple?
[/quote]

Thanks for trying to involve me in the debate, however I am so far behind most of your guys in the knowledge dept on this issue. I will try tho…

  1. Not sure, I guess Herods Temple? Temple on the Mount
  2. I see your point here
  3. None really imo because of the Holy Spirit/New Coveant?[/quote]

No worries. I usually just ask those questions so people will think about what they have been told and accept.

All descriptions of a rebuilt temple are found in the OT. During the time of captivity.
So pre-second temple.

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I�??�?�¢??ve read revelations, several books about it and done bible studies on it.

The most convincing explanation I’ve seen out there is that it’s really written about the time in which the book was written. Pretty much all of the “futuristic” references in it can be tied to events and circumstance in the roman empire of that time.

666 is a good example of what I’m talking about. You couldn’t get away with outright saying bad things about the emperor (nero). You could however do it in code. In the roman world it was not entirely uncommon to refer to people by the number equivalent in roman numerals of their name. They actually still have what is essentially carved graffiti where people use that terminology. What makes it really convening that 666 is referring to nero is the fact that there are actually 2 spellings of nero. One spelling is the number 666 the other is the number 669. That is important because there are actually a few early versions of the text that use the number 669 instead of 666. That is beyond coincidence.

I think the real truth of revelation is that it is just a common style of writing from that age. People wrote that way. Today, it comes of as mystic and prophetic because we just plain aren’t familiar with the style.

There is a very short book call “the mystery of revelation” or “reveling the mystery of revelation” or something that does a pretty convincing job.

I think there are things you can learn from the book, but I don’t think the message is to watch out for the mark of the beast on people’s foreheads or some other nonsense. I actually think the book is written about the past.

I can post the title of the book later if people are interested.
[/quote]

In reagards to this viewpoint, what happens before Jesus comes back? [/quote]

In the viewpoint, Revelation relates to the time at hand (early AD) and really isn’t so much a prophecy about future events and what specifically happens step by step before Jesus comes back.[/quote]

So no 1 world gov., currency, antichrist? How does the world come to an end? [/quote]

Only in the sense that the Roman empire did those things. And it isn’t about the actual specific conditions and events of the end of the world in a literal sense.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]haney1 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Yup. Still waitin on that dead guy to come back.

http://www.preterism.info/articles/jesus-predicted.htm

Taking bets on who rises again first, the south or jesus. Any takers?[/quote]

You obviously don’t understand what is meant by return in the preterist description.[/quote]

Feel free to explain what it really means.[/quote]

Revelation says the “coming” of Christ. This is taken by many, including Preterists, as a spiritual coming. That’s not to say that there will not be a true physical return of Christ, but that in the 1st century AD, Christ returned in a spiritual sense with the judgment of Israel.
I’ve always understood “the return” to be Jesus coming back to earth.