T Nation

Bonappetit's TRT Log/ New lab Results


#1

Hello All,

I am 33, 5’7, 180 lbs

At first, I apologize for any spelling mistakes, English is my second language. To keep the story short. I was diagnosed with Low T (second) by an endo. She put me on Clomid, 25mg EOD for three months. It’s been 8 weeks on clomid and my number did in fact increased. However, I still feel horrible (tired/fogy/hard time thinking) maybe even worse than before… I wonder why I don’t feel better with higher testosterone. I feel a little discouraged and hopeless. I was hoping for you to take a look at my numbers and maybe have a suggestion or two.

My lab before the clomid was:
CORTISOL, TOTAL 19.9 3-22 mcg/dL CB
DHEA SULFATE 404 106-464 mcg/dL
FSH 3.7 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
LH 3.4 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
ESTRADIOL 21 < OR = 39 pg/mL
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, LC/MS/MS 194 L 250-1100 ng/dL
FREE TESTOSTERONE 29.4L 35.0-155.0 pg/mL
PSA 0.6

After taking clomid for 8 weeks:

FSH WAS 4.6 ( REFERENCE: 1.6-8)
LH 3.6 (REFERENCE 1.5-9.3)
ESTRADIOL 24 (REFRENCE <OR = 39)
TESOSTERONE, TOTAL, LC/MS/MS 570 (250-1100)
TESTOSTERONE FREE 90.6 (46-224)
TESOSTERONE BIOAVAILABLE 198.1 (110-575)
SHBC 27 (10-50)
ALDUMIN SERUM 4.8 (3.6-5.1)
PSA 1.5

Please let me know if you have any suggestions??? Thx!


#2

After Clomid, does this mean you are no longer on Clomid?


#3

I am on clomid. I meant after on clomid for few weeks.


#4

I would increase the dose of little bit, you would rather have higher numbers because your levels will drop after you stop Clomid. You can’t afford to lose any of that what you’ve already got on Clomid.


#5

Hey systemlord

I am taking 25 EOD. This seem to be a standard dose. Why would you increase if the results on paper look good.? I’m actually afraid that I feel more crappy because of clomid. Please let me know what do you mean by ’

You can’t afford to lose any of that what you’ve already got on Clomid.’

Thx for you help!


#6

Some don’t feel well on clomid. Being your fsh can still go up some that’s why you may take more. You can try. But if you feel horrible and your estradiol is in range then it may not be for you.


#7

Your LH/FSH response is rather low and your T status is not good enough. But might be helpful.

Some guys simply feel horrible with clomid. They feel bad and very depressed. Other guys do well with clomid. Nolvadex does not have that problem and you might do better with that.


Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

KSman is simply a regular member on this site. Nothing more other than highly active.

I can be a bit abrupt in my replies and recommendations. I have a lot of ground to cover as this forum has become much more active in the last two years. I can’t follow threads that go deep over time. You need to respond to all of my points and requests as soon as possible before you fall off of my radar. The worse problems are guys who ignore issues re Thyroid, body temperatures, history of iodized salt. Please do not piss people off saying that lab results are normal, we need lab numbers and ranges.

The value that you get out of this process and forum depends on your effort and performance. The bulk of your learning is reading/studying the suggested stickies.


#8

strong textThank you for reply! I decided to cut clomid in half. So it’s only 12.5 EOD. Can you please tell me what was your fatigue/tiredness with low t?! Was is more of a fatigue or sleepiness ?? I’m starting to question that my tiredness is caused by low t if with higher numbers doesn’t really improver. Also if you could look at my thyroid labs would be great. I read the sticky but it is quite a lot to take at once. .


#9

You are low T, some guys just feel terrible on clomid even with great numbers. When you finly give up on Clomid, TRT will make you feel amazing.


#10

Hello friends,
I got some new labs and my E2 came back at 37 when 39 is high. The test was done 2 weeks after decreasing the dose of clomid to 12.5 EOD. Not sure about T level because my doctor didn’t order these…oh and my t3 free came back elevates at 4.4. Should I worry about these t3 levels? My TSh is fine.


#11

As far as your fT3 of 4.4, without the lab ranges I couldn’t tell you one way or the other. TSH is fine, what does that mean?

In regards to elevated fT3, how’s your sleep? Excess sweating, increased hunger, hyperactivity, irritability or mood swings, weight loss, abnormal heart rhythm, insomnia?


#12

If you want to be engaged with thyroid issues you need to address the thyroid, oral body temperature and history of iodized salt use as per my post above.

High fT3 does suggest problems and we need to be suspicious of rT3.

Has doc palpated your thyroid?
Did he do labs immediately afterwards?
Any lumps or enlargement?
Do you feel cold easily or warm easily? -how and when changed
Outer eyebrows sparse?
Dry skin?
Is or was stress a bit factor in your life?

TSH is only one part of a complex situation and by itself it does not mean too much.

E2: Some anastrozole is probably a good option.


#13

I will check my temps as you suggested. I also was able to look at my older thyroid lab since I remember there was something out of range.

I remember my doctor told me that he sees number in hundreds and there is nothing to worry about at this point. My use of iodized salt is better after being on this forum for a while but for many years I almost never used it since I moved to the USA from Europe. In Europe it was commonly used. Here I mostly consumed Himalayan pink salt.

Has doc palpated your thyroid?
Yes he did, everything was ok

Did he do labs immediately afterwards?
No he didn’t

Any lumps or enlargement?
No lumps no enlargements

Do you feel cold easily or warm easily? -how and when changed
I feel always cold and my hand and feet are constantly cold, I had that for years.

Outer eyebrows sparse?
Nope, I have good thick hair.

Dry skin?
I do get occasional dry skin during the winter living in Chicago and lately I got super dry nippels ( super weird) but I believe it is related to being on clomid

Is or was stress a bit factor in your life?
Lots of stress in my life in the past not so much now


#14

I got new lab results. My e2 went down to 23 with lowering the clomid. However, my testosterone went down as well:
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, 281 250-827 ng/d

TESTOSTERONE FREE, 55.6 46.0-224.0 pg/mL

Not sure what to do in current situation. Should I increase my dosage of clomid again and add AI ?? Or just start TRT. The idea was to restart. How long it would take for my body to restart anyway ?? I have been in 25 clomid EOD for 8 weeks, would that be enough ??


#15

When I first started clomid I took 50mg daily, that made me feel like total crap so I came off of it for a week to let the levels drop some. After that I was on 25mg every day for a few weeks and felt way better and my T went from 195 to 700 so I responded well to that. I eventually just went on injections as I liked that option better.

To answer your question, trying 25mg daily could be ok to see how you respond. If you feel like crap just stop and switch to injections.

Also make sure thyroid is taken care of, that was key for me in getting to feeling great again.


#16

Did you actually see if clomid restart your ability to produce testosterone ? I wonder how long do you need to take it so it can “restatt’ Your system…thanks for reply Brad !


#17

I wasn’t going to bother trying a restart. My T was 195, I had no intention to try to restart it as I believe even if I kickstarted it I would be back dealing with it again in a few years. I give myself a few shots a week now and can keep my levels wherever I want them for the rest of my life.


#18

Hey guys,

I did see my endo tyesterday. She suggest to stop taking clomid and to be honest she was never a fan of that choice. I end up getting a script for 200 mg cypionate. Unfortunately, she told me to inject every 2 weeks as according to her there is no difference in injecting more often and smaller dosages. I didn’t want to argue with her since at that moment I knew I won’t be back to see her again. She wasn’t very familiar with HCG but she said that she had some experience during her rotations… but with women only. She said that she will not test my E2 since the protocol doesn’t call for that and she doesn’t care about it. I’m really surprised that she consciously chooses to be uneducated on the issue. Now I need to find a new doctor ASAP. Thanks for reading.


#19

There’s no standard of care model for TRT, it’s like a robot with no programming code, they believe TRT is about prescribing testosterone and only checking for total testosterone.

The only thing mentioned about TRT is one 200 mg injection every two weeks, so like a robot that’s what she must follow because she knows nothing else and is afraid of getting sued for attempting to deviate from the guidelines. This is how Insurance doctors operate, there’s no critical thinking or reasoning of any kind.

It seems the only doctors that know what they’re doing do not take insurance, otherwise they would be robots as well unable to think for themselves.


#20

Agree with the idea that she has been afraid. She was first not happy that I don’t won’t a gel but inject by myself. She originally wanted me to come every 2 weeks. Also, when I pushed her to inject every week, she agreed but after few minutes changed her mind.