Bodypart A Day Training

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

By the way, if your goal was to improve your powerlifting style bench press, would you still use the same protocol-pyrimiding up to a single heavy set of 3-6 reps? Just wondering.
[/quote]

Yes, and I still think you are missing the point. Regardless of what you have read about Olympic lifters and their desire to avoid weight gain, stronger muscles are directly related to larger muscles. Who do you know of that has gone up 2-3" in arm girth but stayed at the same strength level? Train for strength, eat, gain weight, and you will get bigger muscles. Unless your genetics are pure crap, I don’t understand why you think you would get stronger, gain weight, but gain little to no added muscle size. I don’t understand your logic.

I am currently on a 1-a-day training sched that looks like this.

Mon - legs
Tues - Biceps/Tricps
Wed - Shoulders
Thurs - Back
Frid - Chest

I have been on this for like 12 weeks and have seen HUGE gains in my numbers and my physique in general look 100x better. Granted i am fairly new but this system works out fantastic for me.

As far as sets and reps it looks like this for every part, but this is my bicep routin.

warm up 1 - 8 reps at 20lbs
warm up 2 - 6 repa at 30lbs
Weight Acclimation 1 - 3 reps at 40 lbs
Weight acclimation 2 - 1 rep at 60

Heavy sets - 4 to 6 reps at 80 lbs

He was probably referring to the ability to increase efficiency of the nervous system as far as lifting the weight would be concerned, which would mean greater strength without gaining muscle. Or training to improve capillary density (bigger muscles) which would not improve strength much.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Yes, and I still think you are missing the point. Regardless of what you have read about Olympic lifters and their desire to avoid weight gain, stronger muscles are directly related to larger muscles. Who do you know of that has gone up 2-3" in arm girth but stayed at the same strength level? Train for strength, eat, gain weight, and you will get bigger muscles. Unless your genetics are pure crap, I don’t understand why you think you would get stronger, gain weight, but gain little to no added muscle size. I don’t understand your logic.[/quote]

It’s interesting that Prof X gets results by doing some things that seem to be no-nos according to the latest information on weight training.

Supposedly a person adapts to an exercise after 3-4 weeks, but Prof X seems to do the same routine indefinitely or perhaps he does introduce variety.

Also the Prof’s training split seems like it would lead to overtraining, but it works for him.

I think this is a reminder that a lot of the info on training is only a guideline, ultimately, we must all find out what works for us.

[quote]basementD wrote:
It’s interesting that Prof X gets results by doing some things that seem to be no-nos according to the latest information on weight training.

Supposedly a person adapts to an exercise after 3-4 weeks, but Prof X seems to do the same routine indefinitely or perhaps he does introduce variety.

Also the Prof’s training split seems like it would lead to overtraining, but it works for him.

I think this is a reminder that a lot of the info on training is only a guideline, ultimately, we must all find out what works for us.[/quote]

As for Proff X, I think most people would get results from that kind of training for 2-3 years if they worked hard, maybe longer. I think at that stage, tendons and muscles are both adapting by basically the same stimulus, (or close enough if you do some range of reps and it sounds like we’re talking about maybe one hard set at 6-10 reps and 1 at 4-6 sets for 3-4 exercises per bodypart). Unless the lighter set is just for warmup and nerve tune-up, that suggests that there is some variation needed, if not, just warm up and go for 4-6 right away.

Ed Coan used this form of training for a long time, and it’s almost identical to what Dorian Yates did between 1991-1995…ALMOST IDENTICAL.

The difference is that both Coan and Yates eventually had to vary certain parameters to differentially train tendons and muscles when they reached the ultimate level. Coan added specific exercises to prepare the nervous system (rack holds, walkouts, arch back GMs) at the end of his cycle primarily for the short term effects on reflexes and tendons. Yates started varying his rep ranges (4-6, 6-10, 10-15) and even did two weeks of lighter training every 8-9 weeks to help reset his system.

Most of us will get to the point where our muscles and nerve/tendon complex need to be trained differentially to achieve continued gains in both. Bodybuilders who use a lot of anabolic steroids build muscle, but the tendon is not trained properly to keep up.

The tendons must undergo fast loading (not fast lifting or heavy weights but rather a fast application of force or else they will shut down contraction submaximally) Muscles require some time under tension. Eventually these two training factors diverge too much to be built simultaneously, or at least by the same exact stimuli. Proff X is apparently gifted in having a high reflex set point for his tendons which means he can still build tendon and muscle at the same time.

This is all only a scientifically based opinion, and when I say scientifically, I mean with an understanding of anatomy and physiology and an understanding of many test case examples. I is not my intent to prove it.

Interesting thread because I just posted elsewhere that the Total Body Tining protocol is not an end-all be-all, but neither is any one training method. As I alluded to in that other post, I think nearly any program can build muscle for you. It’s about your nutrition and finding that balance between muscular stess and recovery. Whether you choose to hit a body part once or 4 times a week is up to the individual. Different strokes for different folks. All though, I still think we could all stand to change it up now and again. Variety can keep the body guessing and therefore lead to greater hypertrophy.

Prof X,

I noticed you mentioned that you use a plethora of machines, Hammer Strength specifically. I have used them and like them, along with many top college and pro teams. I think they are a safe hybrid of free-weights and your cable loaded machines. I like them because they work the body isolaterally and their strength curve tends to be toughest where you have the most leverage on the pressing motions. Not to mention, you can work explosively to build power much more safely than a barbell and more effectively than a cable loaded machine.

Question: Do you use any free-weights such as olympic bar work and/or dumbbells? Do you feel that Hammer Strength was key to your success or would you have gained size on any equipment?

Thanks,

TopSirloin

I like some things about hammer strength too. For example, regular cable type machines have a decreased eccentric acceleration because friction is helping you on the eccentric, and sometimes you even have 2x mechanical advantage cables-and its not about weight reduction, its about eccentric acceleration. With free weights, often there is unloading in the contracted position (lockout of the bench). With Hammer Strength, you get a normal (or in some cases increased) eccentric acceleration, but still usually have tension at the lockout position.

I would want to ask Proff X:

With the Hammer Strength machines you use, is there tension at the very bottom of the motion, or can the muscles be relexed momentarily at the bottom.

Also, no offense, but what is your motivation for reading T-Mag? It doesn’t sound like you use any of the ideas from any of the training methods yourself. I am not into just taking someones program and following it, but I do look around for tidbits here and there that I can use in my program.

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:

Question: Do you use any free-weights such as olympic bar work and/or dumbbells? Do you feel that Hammer Strength was key to your success or would you have gained size on any equipment?
[/quote]

First, I won’t consider any of this a success until I reach my goals. I see myself as having a ways to go to get there. As far as your question about freeweights, my logic behind using Hammer Strength equipment for some of the “big lifts” is that my strength level outgrew the point at which I could perform the exercise safely without a spotter and continue to go up in weight without safety becoming even more of a concern. I remember doing bench presses with 405lbs. Without someone spotting me, I consider that a dangerous attempt. You can’t try to go much heavier on your own and it is a weight that produced wonderful mental images of me being chopped in half by an olympic bar. Thusly, the thought of my head being so far removed from my penis due to this tragedy forced me towards an alternative.

I generally max out the machine, however, on movements like the HS incline because the pole only allows 5 plates a side. I say “only” knowing full well that it took me a long time to get to that point so don’t think I am trying to understate the attempt or that I am trying to act as if using that much is so common. I bring it up because it means that I don’t have anything to move up to now aside from increasing my rep range outside of what I used to reach this point. That poses a problem from here on out.

As far as whether I would have gained size on any equipment, I think free weights are great. I hate barbell movements but I think dumbbells are one of the greatest ways to add overall size. I use them for arms and shoulders all of the time. For chest, however, I think that had it not been for HS machines, I would have been severely limited in development and progress because of the safety concerns and lack of a consistant training partner.

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
I would want to ask Proff X:

With the Hammer Strength machines you use, is there tension at the very bottom of the motion, or can the muscles be relexed momentarily at the bottom.

Also, no offense, but what is your motivation for reading T-Mag? It doesn’t sound like you use any of the ideas from any of the training methods yourself. I am not into just taking someones program and following it, but I do look around for tidbits here and there that I can use in my program.[/quote]

There is tension at the bottom of the movement. then again, my range of motion is probably a little different than someone just starting. If I am using the HS flat bench, for instance, the bottom of the moevment probably relates to being within about 1" of the bar from my chest and then I press back up.

As far as reading T-Mag, I have been here since they put the site up. That is probably as basic as it gets…that and I liked the articles A-Dog put up. Other than that, this site has changed a little in the aspect that there seem to be many people who lack individual thought. Someone asks a question and you instantly get 13 links to old articles yet no personal experience from the person supposedly “answering” the question. It is because most of the people answering the questions first probably lack much experience. They found the site, read some articles and now think those articles are the basis of all knowledge on bodybuilding. I disagree with that mentality. While I use some Biotest products, I have not yet started any Biotest fan clubs and there are no cardboard cutouts of any of the signature members who started this site in my bedroom closet.

When this site first started, the mentality that Goldberg, one of the guys who used to post more often, had seemed to be the general mind set. It meant hardcore lifting and moving away from the pretty boy mind set that had taken over this site recently. I swear, when I logged back in over a year ago, this was a completely different site than what it used to be. Independent thought and use of information to form ideas that help your PERSONAL goal should be the goal on this forum. Not blind following with half the heart…yet that is all I was seeing on this board recently. Hopefully that is going to change. And that is probably why I am still here.

Either way, this site does provide extremely decent attempts at deeper knowledge concerning bodybuilding and nutrition.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
For chest, however, I think that had it not been for HS machines, I would have been severely limited in development and progress because of the safety concerns and lack of a consistant training partner.[/quote]

What about dips for chest?

[quote]NateN wrote:
Professor X wrote:
For chest, however, I think that had it not been for HS machines, I would have been severely limited in development and progress because of the safety concerns and lack of a consistant training partner.

What about dips for chest?

[/quote]

I consider dips a triceps movement. That is what I use them for…and I use the Hammer Strength machine for that as well. It is easier to add weight to and allows me to focus on triceps more than I could if I had a few 45lb plates hanging from my waist. I go pretty heavy on those.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I generally max out the machine, however, on movements like the HS incline because the pole only allows 5 plates a side. I say “only” knowing full well that it took me a long time to get to that point so don’t think I am trying to understate the attempt or that I am trying to act as if using that much is so common. I bring it up because it means that I don’t have anything to move up to now aside from increasing my rep range outside of what I used to reach this point. That poses a problem from here on out.

As far as whether I would have gained size on any equipment, I think free weights are great. I hate barbell movements but I think dumbbells are one of the greatest ways to add overall size. I use them for arms and shoulders all of the time. For chest, however, I think that had it not been for HS machines, I would have been severely limited in development and progress because of the safety concerns and lack of a consistant training partner.[/quote]

Just some thoughts
Have you thought about using 100 pound plates? Also, adding bands to the Hammer Strength. Also, for upper chest I tried doing dumbells ona little bit of an incline, BUT pressing out perpendicular to the body, rather than to the ground so there was some constant tension, and use of the clavicular head which has to raise this way anyway.

Just throwing stuff out there. Anyway, I’d get some 100 pound plates.

I agree with the independent thought in training and hate it when people refer me to an article that I read 2 years ago. Before I subscribed, I went back and read all the archives 2-3 times (although it was in another format back then).

I disagree in that I think that there is a difference between a muscle building and tendon/nerve building rep. Muscle building basically being more of a constant tension at least through the positive part, with maybe peak contraction, or a slower negative and in somecases loaded stretching, while power building being reps with more like a single powerful heave and then its up. At least for me anyway. If your still improving with a simple parameter approach then I’d say go as far as you can-some can go further than others this way.

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Just some thoughts
Have you thought about using 100 pound plates? [/quote]

I currently go to a gym much like the one Ronnie Coleman was using in his training video. I can yell and scream as much as I want and they have a lot of decent equipment, but they don’t have 100lbs plates.

[quote]

I disagree in that I think that there is a difference between a muscle building and tendon/nerve building rep. Muscle building basically being more of a constant tension at least through the positive part, with maybe peak contraction, or a slower negative and in somecases loaded stretching, while power building being reps with more like a single powerful heave and then its up. At least for me anyway. If your still improving with a simple parameter approach then I’d say go as far as you can-some can go further than others this way. [/quote]

I think you are making this way too complicated. Without drug use, most people will not gain muscle so fast that they need to train their tendons seperately. I am not sure why you think like this or who has pointed your mind in this direction. Some simple rules are;
Control the negative.
Don’t let a weight drop while only focusing on the lift. More muscle is built through controlled heavy weight on the negative portion of the movement.

Use explosive reps.
My reps are usually faster going up than they are letting the weight back down.

You seem to be thinking in extremes as if you can only see “lifting heavy weight for 2 reps” or “lifting a lighter weights for tons of reps”. I don’t “max out” ever. I can’t remember the last time I did that. My goal is to lift the heavier weight better and for more reps until I can usually get it up about 8 times. That is usually the point at which I add more weight. Without doing something unnatural, your body will not gain strength so fast that your tendons can’t keep up. If I misread your post, then I apologize, but that is the way you seem to be coming across.

The rest is up to genetics, food intake and rest.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
mertdawg wrote:
I think you are making this way too complicated. Without drug use, most people will not gain muscle so fast that they need to train their tendons seperately. I am not sure why you think like this or who has pointed your mind in this direction. Some simple rules are;
Control the negative.
Don’t let a weight drop while only focusing on the lift. More muscle is built through controlled heavy weight on the negative portion of the movement.
[/quote]
It just seems like your saying that every powerlifter should be pyramiding up to a heavy set of 5-8 reps, that all that Louie Simmons and Olympic lifters say about strength is wrong.

My approach IS simple, 2-3 weeks of heavy explosive triples usually with doubled bands and 2-3 weeks of controlled heavy sets of 6-12, shooting for a heavy set of around 6, and sometimes a combination of both. One thing I did notice was that I could try for reps with 245 in the bench by warming up and going for it and I got 12-13 reps, but if I worked up to a heavy triple of say 335, then tried 245, I could get 17-20 reps.

Who knows. Maybe I just feel the need to alternate because its mental and maybe thats a crutch, but it keeps me mentally fresh. Also, all my joints feel better after 2-3 weeks of higher, stricter reps, but on the whole, my system feels better when I use heavy triples.

And here’s the thing. Tendons have one primary biological function-to reflexively inhibit or excite muscle contraction. I just think the heavier loads done faster train them to excite rather than inhibit at a given threshold.

Havn’t checked this thread in a while.

Prof X, I wasn’t planning on replicationg your warm-ups. Given our varying levels of physical development and ultimate goals. It’d be counterproductive to say the least. I was just getting at a general idea of a specific warm-up and if you counted those sets in your full line-up.

I think there’s many ways to get huge. Finding the ones that work best for you are the key. Louie Simmons and Westside found a formula that works for most people. Not all. Ed Coan wouldn’t have been “better” if trained Westside. Dorian wouldn’t have had a better back if he did some other random workout. They did things that worked for them. Just like each person needs to find. We each eventually dial it in and find out what works for us and we keep going back to it.

I’ve tried the total body workout, only use when I have plenty of time on my hands or on vaction. It just take way too long & the next is a real bitch! IF I want to go play some b-ball or tennis; forget it! My muscles just want to rest. If u don’t play any sports then maybe you can do that type of workout.

Also, it hard to get up the intensity for that long of a workout. Maybe if your just doing a few sets & 1-2 exercises per bodypart. Then you should be able to keep it up.

I enjoy playing sports so on days that I do I train only 1 bodypart or sometimes when it ends up to be 2 bodyparts because I might be using supersets that week. On days I’m not engaged in my sports I’ll do 3 bodyparts.

[quote]BRUCELEEWANNABE wrote:
I’ve tried the total body workout, only use when I have plenty of time on my hands or on vaction. It just take way too long & the next is a real bitch! IF I want to go play some b-ball or tennis; forget it! My muscles just want to rest. If u don’t play any sports then maybe you can do that type of workout.

Also, it hard to get up the intensity for that long of a workout. Maybe if your just doing a few sets & 1-2 exercises per bodypart. Then you should be able to keep it up.

I enjoy playing sports so on days that I do I train only 1 bodypart or sometimes when it ends up to be 2 bodyparts because I might be using supersets that week. On days I’m not engaged in my sports I’ll do 3 bodyparts.[/quote]

I personally don’t think the key with so called total body workouts is to hit the whole body in the same workout, I think the key is to hit 2-3 unrelated muscle groups hard, fast heavy and frequently rather than “getting to know” one muscle or group very well. I think it works better to spread the bodyparts out over two workouts, but to do 2-3 exercises that hit totally different muscles.

[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
Havn’t checked this thread in a while.

Prof X, I wasn’t planning on replicationg your warm-ups. Given our varying levels of physical development and ultimate goals. It’d be counterproductive to say the least. I was just getting at a general idea of a specific warm-up and if you counted those sets in your full line-up.

I think there’s many ways to get huge. Finding the ones that work best for you are the key. Louie Simmons and Westside found a formula that works for most people. Not all. Ed Coan wouldn’t have been “better” if trained Westside. Dorian wouldn’t have had a better back if he did some other random workout. They did things that worked for them. Just like each person needs to find. We each eventually dial it in and find out what works for us and we keep going back to it.[/quote]

But if you can find Coan’s COMPLETE routine, he actually started adding some Westside type nerve/tendon/reflex training in the later years and in the last 2 weeks: Arch back GMs and heavy holds-granted not identical, but he naturally gravitated toward the nerve facilitation work.

Yates also varied rep ranges every 2-3 weeks and had two weeks of what he called lighter training not to failure about every 2 months.

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
It just seems like your saying that every powerlifter should be pyramiding up to a heavy set of 5-8 reps, that all that Louie Simmons and Olympic lifters say about strength is wrong.[/quote]

Since when were we talking about powerlifting? Nothing I have written is in relation to powerlifting. In powerlifting, the goal is to get the weight up…period. That has much to do with technique, neurological adaptation and strength development. Bodybuilding contains the strength aspect, but due to overall diet and higher rep ranges (beyond the point of maxing out), the goal is muscle growth and size gains as well. I don’t see how you got confused on that.

[quote]
My approach IS simple, 2-3 weeks of heavy explosive triples usually with doubled bands and 2-3 weeks of controlled heavy sets of 6-12, shooting for a heavy set of around 6, and sometimes a combination of both. One thing I did notice was that I could try for reps with 245 in the bench by warming up and going for it and I got 12-13 reps, but if I worked up to a heavy triple of say 335, then tried 245, I could get 17-20 reps.

Who knows. Maybe I just feel the need to alternate because its mental and maybe thats a crutch, but it keeps me mentally fresh. Also, all my joints feel better after 2-3 weeks of higher, stricter reps, but on the whole, my system feels better when I use heavy triples.[/quote]

OK, now that you have told me how your system “feels”, what progress are you making physically? How much weight have you gained? How much has your strength incrteased? I don’t have joint problems nor do I have any tendon problems. I never considered myself that much of a genetic mutant to have avoided all of these problems that some of you seem to have. I trained with guys in college who recovered even faster than I do. If someone was having all of these issues, I would immediately look at their overall form during these movements. It sounds like either you are performing some of these exercises in ways that promote injury, or your recovery and immune system is compromised…in which case I would look at diet.